1st time using Cooler setup. Have some questions and need help

[SFGiantsFan925]

So I have been brewing for just over 2 years. Just enough to get my feet wet with the whole thing. I started with about 4 extract brews, then went straight to AG BIAB. I have made probably 12 BIAB batches with decent results. The beer has been good, but I have always wanted to try the true AG with a sparge and cooler setup.

Long story short, I got a 10 gallon cooler setup, with a domed false bottom. Fits perfect and set it up with a valve and everything. Today was my first run with the system and I only got about 65% efficiency. Not sure why. So here is what I did and I wanted to see if I did this right. Please tear apart my process and let me know if its right/wrong.

Brewed a Saison (Cottage House Saison from HBT). Here is a quick grain bill:

8.5 # 2-Row Pilsner (Bel)
1.5 #White Wheat
0.5 # Caramunich
0.5 # flaked Oats
1 # Honey

Wanted to mash at 148F for 60 min.

OG was supposed to be 1.058. I got 1.054.

Here is what I did:

- Heated 3.6 gal water to 168F.
- Added to cooler, it dropped to 158F, which was my strike temp.
- Added grain, stirred for a few minutes
- Dropped temp to 146F (cold and rainy out, grain was probably too cold)
- Freaked out and quickly heated up abut 2.5 quarts water to almost boil.
- Added water to mash in batches while stirring to get to 148F.
- Mashed for 60 minutes. Held 148 for entire mash.
- Added 1.2 gallon boiling water (for mash out). Only brought mash to about 158F, not 170F
- Let sit for 10 minutes
- Vourlaf till clear
- Drained entire contents to bucket with FWH
- Added 3.5 gal of 170F water to grain in cooler. It settled at about 158F. Was I supposed to get the grain to 170F?? Stirred.
- Let sit for 10 minutes
- Vourlaf till clear
- Drained to kettle
- Proceed with boil as normal.

This was able to get me about 65% efficiency. It is my first time trying out the whole "sparge" thing, and I feel this is where my lack of efficiency is. Where did I go wrong? What can I do different? Hope the beer turns out okay. Pretty sure it will, just would like to increase efficiency and overall use of the system. I feel like I should have raised the grain temp for "mash out" at 170F, not just adding 170F water to it. And was the sparge supposed to be adding 170F water or bringing the actual grain bed up to 170F??

 

[goodyx7]

How fast did you drain into your kettle? I too had low sixties my first time. Slowed the drain down and started getting 75 or better since. I just use 170 degree water at sparge.

 

[yeahfairly]

I am counting about 8 1/2 to 9 gallons of water in your process SFGiantFan. What was your pre boil volume? Just looking at what you stated above... 1.054 looks pretty good to me. Did you buy your grains already crushed?

 

[Paradingbull]

Your mashout temp and batch sparge temps were a bit low, but don't fret because it happens to all of us. You are not that far off of OG, could you have more than 5 gallons left to fermenter? As you learn your equipment it will get better. Take notes of what water temperatures cause what results, apply for the next batch. Don't be afraid to stir the mash every 15 minutes, and stir well for mashout and sparge addition.

 

[BackAlley]

First, 65% on the first try is well done and nothing to fret about. A few observations though.

You could have added even more hot water to get your mash temp up to 158 if that's where you wanted. Water to grain ratio is a secondary effect at best whereas the mash temp does make a noticeable difference.

I find it much easier to err on the high side of strike temp and adjust down with cold water (or even ice) then the other way around.

Many (although not all) believe that you don't need that 10 minute rest after you sparged. Between stirring time and vorlauf time, the sugars will have gone into solution.

Lastly, theoretically you'll get better efficiency if you split your sparge into two. Up to you to decide if the extra time and effort is worth the $0.50 of extra grain you're saving.

Welcome to the club!

 

[SFGiantsFan925]

Ill try and answer a few questions to get some more help.

How fast did you drain into your kettle? I too had low sixties my first time. Slowed the drain down and started getting 75 or better since. I just use 170 degree water at sparge.

i drained the initial mash over about 5-10 minutes. I dont really remember, but I couldnt remember how long to let it drain, so I just opnened it up about half way and let it go. Should I let it go much slower?? Also, so you add 170F water to the mash, stir, then let sit for mashout? You dont want the actual mash to reach 170F??

I am counting about 8 1/2 to 9 gallons of water in your process SFGiantFan. What was your pre boil volume? Just looking at what you stated above... 1.054 looks pretty good to me. Did you buy your grains already crushed?

I kinda freaked out when I checked the temp after mash-in. I realized it was at 145-146, and using 3711 yeast I didnt want it THAT fermentable. So I just added a bunch of water to my pot and brought it up to heat as fast as possible to get the mash to my rest temp of 148F. So I am not 100% sure on how much water I used. The grain was bought the day before, and I crushed it that day. It was on a mill that had a finer crush than their other mill.

First, 65% on the first try is well done and nothing to fret about. A few observations though.

You could have added even more hot water to get your mash temp up to 158 if that's where you wanted. Water to grain ratio is a secondary effect at best whereas the mash temp does make a noticeable difference.

I find it much easier to err on the high side of strike temp and adjust down with cold water (or even ice) then the other way around.

Many (although not all) believe that you don't need that 10 minute rest after you sparged. Between stirring time and vorlauf time, the sugars will have gone into solution.

Lastly, theoretically you'll get better efficiency if you split your sparge into two. Up to you to decide if the extra time and effort is worth the $0.50 of extra grain you're saving.

Welcome to the club!

Thanks for the encouragement haha. I thought 65% was pretty bad. Guess not. So if I were to sparge twice, would I just cut my sparge volume in half and do it that way? In two separate steps?

My H20/Grain was at 1.3qts/lb.. Wanted to go a little more than 1.25, to give me a little fudge room. Is that alright??

Also, during my sparge, I only sparged until I had enough for the boil. I had a residual of about 1/2 gallon, maybe a little more, left in my mash tun. Is this where my efficiency can be made up? More precise volumes?

A huge thanks to those that have replied and helped out!!

 

[jflongo]

Just curious are you using any brewing software? That will help you out a lot figuring out the sparging amounts and temps.

 

[littlebrew]

BeerSmith has worked great for me. I've used it since version 1.

 

[wtfDean]

i get 68% with a single bazooka screen in my cooler. obviously a false bottom should give you a better efficiency but i see ~70 as good efficiency for a pot and cooler setup. i don't know much about BIAB but i know you guys are all about 85% efficiencies and such. if that's what you're expecting, you need to invest in a bunch more equipment.... or go back to BIAB.

1.3 qt/lb is fine. sometimes i exceed 1.5 qt/lb either on accident or just 'cause. honestly, i don't know how much that plays into your efficiency. pinning down more precise volumes for batch sparging can help. 0.5 gal isn't that much though.

i did a fly sparge once and my efficiency jumped 3%, so that's something to consider. there are relatively cheap and easy ways to rig a fly sparge setup.

hope this helps

 

[SFGiantsFan925]

I do use BeerSmith 2.0. Thats where I get all my volumes and gravities. I think I just need o try it more and get the system down better.

I never even got close to 85% with BIAB. The best I ever had was about 75%. I tried everything except the dunk sparge. But that defeats the whole purpose of BIAB.

 

[wtfDean]

excuse my hyperbole. but you know what i mean. you can hit 70 with a false bottom, just work on your method. it's all about your method.

also, look into getting fly sparging capability. it is the way to go.

 

[RM-MN]

Sorry for the copy/paste but I think this fits here just as well as the other thread I posted it in.

I think you are misunderstanding mash out. When you are fly sparging, you bring the grain bed to 170 and hold the temperature there for 10 minutes to denature the enzymes so there will be no more conversion during the time you spend fly sparging which can take an hour or more. Since what you really want is the grain bed to get hot to make it more fluid, you don't really need a "mash out" but just adding hotter water to increase the fluidity. Whether the grain bed gets all the way to 170 or if it only makes it to 165 won't really matter. It probably wouldn't matter even if your grain bed made it all the way to 180.

 

[goodyx7]

That sounds about right some go a lot slower. I just do a batch sparge which seems to work well for me. Hit my strike temp let sit a hour completely drain then add sparge stir let sit 10-15 drain to get the volume I need. Like others have said once you get to know your set up you'll do just fine. Brew on!

 

[Hello]

If you drained in 5 minutes it was a bit fast. You don't want to compress the grain bed too much to where it gets stuck. Go slightly slower.

You did better than I have. My first time I had 45% efficiency. That's terrible.

I think your other questions were answered.

 

[SFGiantsFan925]

Thanks again for the help. I look forward to trying another brew to see if I can hone in my skills. I think its just getting used to a whole new system.

 

[doby]

Sorry for the copy/paste but I think this fits here just as well as the other thread I posted it in.

I think you are misunderstanding mash out. When you are fly sparging, you bring the grain bed to 170 and hold the temperature there for 10 minutes to denature the enzymes so there will be no more conversion during the time you spend fly sparging which can take an hour or more. Since what you really want is the grain bed to get hot to make it more fluid, you don't really need a "mash out" but just adding hotter water to increase the fluidity. Whether the grain bed gets all the way to 170 or if it only makes it to 165 won't really matter. It probably wouldn't matter even if your grain bed made it all the way to 180.

This is very true I sparge with 180f +, and I don't see how draining slower really helps when batch sparging.

In batch sparging you are washing the sugars from the grain by stirring so the slower draining of the tun has little effect, unlike fly sparging were water spread slowly and evenly over the grain bed washes the sugar from the grain.

My suggestion is to stir for a good 5 to 10 min after adding sparge water,Vourlaf and then let'r rip

Also percentages if the are decent such as yours ain't all that important what you want is consistency, you can always add or subtract grain but if your efficiency is all over the place thru multiple brews you can't reproduce good results