I have a 1 gallon batch that is currently sitting about 2 weeks in the secondary. I am getting ready to bottle. I am planning on back sweetening with with frozen apple juice concentrate. I would like it to have a decent amount of carbonation, not too sweet but with good apple flavor and plan on pasteurizing. Any suggestions on how much to put in the gallon or per bottle? I also plan on doing the plastic water bottle method so I can tell when the carbonation is about right and then pasteurize.
1st Time Bottling & Back Sweeteing With AJC. Suggestions?
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RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
Carbonation consumes about 4 gravity points of sugar.
However much sugar is remaining after that determines how sweet it will taste. That's entirely personal preference.
If you know what FG you want and the OG of the AJC, it's a simple blending calculation
However much sugar is remaining after that determines how sweet it will taste. That's entirely personal preference.
If you know what FG you want and the OG of the AJC, it's a simple blending calculation
The perennial question of how to have sweet and carbonated cider torments us all. This is a bit long winded (again), but this is what I have learned in my search for the "Holy Grail".
The easy answer is to add non fermentable sweetners like Xylitol etc, plus some extra sugar for carbonation. But, this only adds sweetness and doesn't restore the apple flavours lost as the cider ferments down to 1.000. After only two weeks in Secondary, is your FG anywhere near 1.000? I did read somewhere that most of the apple flavour is consumed in the last 0.005 of fermentation (someone with a bit more knowledge might like to comment on this).
I have successfully used Jolicoeur table 15.3 as a guide for carbonation. This suggests 1.5-2.5 vols of CO2 for petillant carbonation and this lines up with Brewersfriend and other web based carbonation calculators. The table suggests a SG drop of 0.002 to 0.004 for Petillant Carbonation which will generate a pressure in the bottle of 1.5-2.8 atmospheres (or around 22-40 psi). There is currently a discussion going on regarding this in a thread of mine from a couple of days ago, especially how much pressure the bottles can take. It seems that the pasteurising heat can generate a fair bit of pressure on top of the carbonation pressure.
Anyhow, back to how much sugar (or FAJC). I usually aim for a drop of 0.002 or 0.003 for a bottom of the range petillant carbonation, which for me gives a nice mouthfeel without it being too fizzy.
So, the method is... once you have reached the SG that you want to finish at (in terms of sweetness and flavour), add FAJC to increase this by 0.002 or 0.003, then bottle, but monitor for pressure then pasteurise. Or even just bottle at your preferred level of sweetness (or a bit more) and pasteurise when you think the pressure is about right. A drop of 0.002 or so shouldn't chew up too much sweetness and apple flavour if you are bottling at something like 1.007. But beware of the potential for bottle bombs if you don't stop the yeast.
If I have been concerned about potential bottle bombs, I store them in my "bomb box" (a trash can with a lid) for a month or so until the carbonation is finished.
Of course you will need a hydrometer to monitor where you are at but this method avoids worrying about how much sugar or FAJC you need per litre/gallon or whatever. I agree with RPh Guy that around 2-4 gravity points is a good range for carbonation. My rule of thumb is 1-2 tsp (4-10g) per litre if you don't want to go down the SG monitoring path.
I found that my recent SO4 and WLP773 batches bottomed out at around 1.002 to 1.003 so adding another 0.002 or 0.003 from extra juice and FAJC, which is then consumed by the yeast, has given me nice carbonation and left just enough sweetness to kill any residual tartness. A bit "suck it and see" but it seems to work O.K. since the WLP773 cider won first prize at a recent Rural Show.
The easy answer is to add non fermentable sweetners like Xylitol etc, plus some extra sugar for carbonation. But, this only adds sweetness and doesn't restore the apple flavours lost as the cider ferments down to 1.000. After only two weeks in Secondary, is your FG anywhere near 1.000? I did read somewhere that most of the apple flavour is consumed in the last 0.005 of fermentation (someone with a bit more knowledge might like to comment on this).
I have successfully used Jolicoeur table 15.3 as a guide for carbonation. This suggests 1.5-2.5 vols of CO2 for petillant carbonation and this lines up with Brewersfriend and other web based carbonation calculators. The table suggests a SG drop of 0.002 to 0.004 for Petillant Carbonation which will generate a pressure in the bottle of 1.5-2.8 atmospheres (or around 22-40 psi). There is currently a discussion going on regarding this in a thread of mine from a couple of days ago, especially how much pressure the bottles can take. It seems that the pasteurising heat can generate a fair bit of pressure on top of the carbonation pressure.
Anyhow, back to how much sugar (or FAJC). I usually aim for a drop of 0.002 or 0.003 for a bottom of the range petillant carbonation, which for me gives a nice mouthfeel without it being too fizzy.
So, the method is... once you have reached the SG that you want to finish at (in terms of sweetness and flavour), add FAJC to increase this by 0.002 or 0.003, then bottle, but monitor for pressure then pasteurise. Or even just bottle at your preferred level of sweetness (or a bit more) and pasteurise when you think the pressure is about right. A drop of 0.002 or so shouldn't chew up too much sweetness and apple flavour if you are bottling at something like 1.007. But beware of the potential for bottle bombs if you don't stop the yeast.
If I have been concerned about potential bottle bombs, I store them in my "bomb box" (a trash can with a lid) for a month or so until the carbonation is finished.
Of course you will need a hydrometer to monitor where you are at but this method avoids worrying about how much sugar or FAJC you need per litre/gallon or whatever. I agree with RPh Guy that around 2-4 gravity points is a good range for carbonation. My rule of thumb is 1-2 tsp (4-10g) per litre if you don't want to go down the SG monitoring path.
I found that my recent SO4 and WLP773 batches bottomed out at around 1.002 to 1.003 so adding another 0.002 or 0.003 from extra juice and FAJC, which is then consumed by the yeast, has given me nice carbonation and left just enough sweetness to kill any residual tartness. A bit "suck it and see" but it seems to work O.K. since the WLP773 cider won first prize at a recent Rural Show.
MiBeerMan
Well-Known Member
Chalkyt, thank you for the info. My question is when do you bottle your cider? Do you do it right after primary or do you let it clear a little in secondary. Or do you just keep it in primary until it hopefully clears? This is the part i'm not sure on.
It's basically up to you. I always let mine clear first because I don't want to taste any yeast. Some people let it clear in primary, others help it clear by refrigerating it, others (like myself) rack to secondary and let the cider clear and age for a while.
MiBeerMan
Well-Known Member
well, im here to say its hard to kill nottingham. I have been cold crashing a 5 gallon cider (via my kegerator) that i have been slowly attacking for over a month now. It is now down to just over a gallon. I set it out to rack into a gallon jug and my airlock starts pumping out bubbles every 10 seconds. it taste very similar to reds apple ale without the carbonation. It is in the secondary carboy now.
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I am the same as Maylar. Primary for a few weeks until it settles (the turbulent fermentation ceases) then transfer to secondary at around 1.020.
By then the residual pulp has settled and so when I transfer it to secondary it is reasonably clear. Then it just stays in secondary with an air lock until the bubbling stops and SG is stable somewhere close to 1.000. I found that SO4 has bottomed out around 1.002-1.003 so adding original juice or FAJC up to 1.005 is when I bottle for a clear(ish) cider with petillant carbonation. I don't end up with much (if any) sediment in the bottles).
I will do a bit of an update on sweetness in a few weeks (or months) time. I have two "experimental" batches going. Two litres each of the same apple blends with 10% pears. The idea being to see if the extra sorbitol in pears gives some residual sweetness (I don't really like using Xylitol etc, although it does work, sort of!). One batch is using WLP775 and the other WLP002, since WLP002 is also reputed to retain some sweetness.
The idea also is to zero in on a favourite yeast. Currently SO4 and WLP773 (which I can't get here) are the favourites.
By then the residual pulp has settled and so when I transfer it to secondary it is reasonably clear. Then it just stays in secondary with an air lock until the bubbling stops and SG is stable somewhere close to 1.000. I found that SO4 has bottomed out around 1.002-1.003 so adding original juice or FAJC up to 1.005 is when I bottle for a clear(ish) cider with petillant carbonation. I don't end up with much (if any) sediment in the bottles).
I will do a bit of an update on sweetness in a few weeks (or months) time. I have two "experimental" batches going. Two litres each of the same apple blends with 10% pears. The idea being to see if the extra sorbitol in pears gives some residual sweetness (I don't really like using Xylitol etc, although it does work, sort of!). One batch is using WLP775 and the other WLP002, since WLP002 is also reputed to retain some sweetness.
The idea also is to zero in on a favourite yeast. Currently SO4 and WLP773 (which I can't get here) are the favourites.
