1st LME extract brew

[Romex2121]

Yesterday i finally brewed up a 5 gal. Oberon clone kit from aih , im thinking i might have messed it up ,, the directions said to steep grains in 2.5 gal of water at 150 - 160 degrees for 20 min. (stayed at 155) , remove grains and bring to boil , add LME and boil for 60 min. , top off with cold water to get 5 gal.
I went with a full boil instead , steeped my grains in 1.5 gal for the 20 min. Then added wort to bigger pot with 4 gals of boiling water for a total of 5.5 gals ( extra for boil off ) brought to a boil and killed flame , added 7 lbs of LME and stirred to mix well ,boiled for the 60 min. ( hopps were added when called for ) Directions said OG of 1.054 i got 1.051 im happy with that..
But the color is darker than it should be for a wheat beer and theres a slight twangy kinda taste to it after it cooled down its almost like if you used to many tea bags when making iced tea but not as bad .. After reading many post im thinking i probly caramelized the LME a bit and maybe should have added the majority of LME towards the end of the boil.
Theres 3 issues im wondering about with the slight twang , is it due to caramelizing ? , did it come from the teaspoon of irish moss ? or is it coming from the Aluminum pot i was using ? Pot was one of those 8 gal. Tamale pots from
wal-mart the wife picked up , i did do a pre boil of water to get the coating ( forgot what its called) also courious if after fermenting is done if the yeast flavor might cover up the slight twang ?? i know im screwed on the color but as long as it taste good ill be happy if not ill dump it and chalk it up to a learning curve , Never had this issue with the couple DME kits ive done but also used SS pot instead of Alum. , i dont think im gonna do anymore kits , ive just about got all my AG stuff together unless i need to switch the Aluminum pot to SS ??

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

It's interesting to sample wort/beer at each of the stages, but don't be in a hurry to judge a beer that's not yet finished. My experience is that many of the unusual, unexpected, or "off" flavors that I taste early in the process disappear after packaging.

If the LME was older, that could explain the darker color and the hint of something twangy.

It reads like you are starting up all grain brewing shortly, but if you think you might brew with extract again, you may want save a copy of @dmtaylor 's "Tips and Tricks for Brewing Excellent Extract Beers At Home" list. Here is one of the links to it: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=31159.msg405242#msg405242.

 

[Romex2121]

Thank you for the link , and yes All Grain has always been where i want to be just didn't have all the goodies together yet , the only reason i chose to do the kits is cause i was excited to get going , im not knocking the kits im sure some good product gets made with them and they are a good way to learn , whitch im still doing , but from all that ive read AG is just an all around better beer ....

 

[Alex4mula]

You didn’t do anything wrong. I have done 10+ brews just like that. I always drink my jar of OG sample. It gives me am indication of taste but the final taste is always different and much better. Beer also looks more clear in the glass. I have done two all grain and honestly I don’t find them that much better than my extract ones. If you have a good process you will brew great beer.

 

[BrewingAroundtheRrealm]

Extract "twang" is a thing and I have experienced it myself. It is the core reason I changed over to partial mash brewing less than three months after I started brewing. Then all grain just a month after that. The follow up reason was that my extract brews always came out darker. Even if I used the lightest extract available.

You didn't do anything wrong. It's just the way brewing with extract turns out some times.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

.

 

[Romex2121]

Its been about 8 days in primary and the US-05 has done its thing and dropped , checked FG yesterday and its sitting at 1.012 , (OG 1.051) 66 -68 degrees the whole time , The twang is no longer there and from my hydro sample the taste has completely changed for the better still darker than it should be , so far i think this is gonna be decent and drinkable , not a 100% Oberon but still good ... At the start I did take a gallon of the starting wort and put in a seperate 1 gal. Carboy and used yeast from a couple bottles of Orberon that i had stepped up a couple of times , haven't tasted that one yet but im hoping the Bells yeast will make it more Orberon tasting than the US-05 did if so ill harvest the yeast and do another 5 gal. AG ..... Pretty sure the FG is as low as its gonna go but im gonna let it set another week or so to clean up then bottle ,, hardest part is all the waiting .. Lol...

 

[kh54s10]

Extracts will always be darker than an all grain, or especially a commercial version. Late extract additions will help but will not solve the darkness.

Stainless steel is easier to care for. No need to be super careful not to scrub off the layer that is in an aluminum kettle. Aluminum is lighter, conducts heat better, is tougher and is usually a lot less expensive.

Seems like you will have a good beer to drink.

 

[IslandLizard]

How hard were you boiling the wort? That could cause wort darkening through excess caramelization. It's also difficult to judge color in a large vessel, beer always looks much too dark in there.

Nothing wrong with doing a full boil, you have a large enough kettle for it. Most extract brewers have smaller pots, and no chiller, hence instructions often tailor to a partial boil followed by a top up with ice cold water in the fermenter.
How did you chill your wort? Immersion chiller?

You could add half the extract at the beginning of the boil and the remainder after flameout. That should help keep the wort lighter too. It gives you somewhat better hop utilization too, which means more bittering, so maybe adjust your bittering hop charge down a little, to compensate for that if it's unwanted.

Your Oberon yeast fermentation should give you a much better approximation to the real thing. But many kits, especially extract ones, are not very close clones to the real thing anyway. There are quite a few Oberon clone recipes around, here and elsewhere. Not sure what yeast Bell's using for it. Bell's uses a house cultivar of WY1272 for Two Hearted, from what I understand, and supply that yeast with their kits. Or cultivate a pitch from a few bottles.

You won't regret all grain. The freedom to brew anything you like is just awesome.
Are you looking into BIAB?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Would it be appropriate for "the forum" to write a sticky on how to convert kits to get "better" color? The approach seems to have remained consistent over time. As a sticky, new brewers would be able to read it before brewing (rather than after brewing).

2002: "Boil Hops, not Extract" (BYO, Oct 2002).

2007: "On the Importance of Late Extract Additions" (http://menuinprogress.com/2007/08/on-importance-of-late-extract-addition.html)

Kits get us started, discussion moves us forward.

(As an aside: people customize kit recipes and get beer they enjoy - if you are one of those people, keep doing what works for you).

Here's a short summary of what I see has changed with extract+steep brewing over the last 5 years.

timeless: "Tips and Tricks for Brewing Excellent Extract Beers ..." https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/opinions-on-extract-brewing.659959/page-2#post-8508923

2013: http://beerandwinejournal.com/15-minute-pale-ale/ . More ideas here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Homebrewin...ve_any_luck_with_an_all_extract_wort/djwjf8x/

2015: Pale Ale, Vienna (and Munich DME): http://blog.brewingwithbriess.com/introducing-the-first-briess-single-malt-extracts/

2017: How To Brew, 4e. Recipes that use Pale Ale, Vienna, and Munich DME. Excellent description of "stove top brewing" (partial boil with late extract additions). Using brewing salts when brewing extract+steep (chapter 8).

2108: BBR's Hop Sampler. Various discussions starting here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/1-gallon-brewers-unite.311884/page-162#post-8494949 in "1-Gallon Brewers UNITE!".

2019: "No-Boil Recipes! New for 2019!": https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/no-boil-recipes-new-for-2019.660329/ .

2019: Zymurgy Magazine (July/Aug 2019) publishes "no boil" DME recipe (using light, pale ale, and munich DME). Although, the process used may be more thought provoking that the ingredients.

2020 (speculation): Ideas from the recently published books "New IPA" and "Simple Homebrewing" start showing up in forums. (The basis for the speculation is that it took about two years for "Cold Extraction" go from HomeBrewCon presentation (2016) to multiple topics on /r/homebrewing (2018) with some early adapter blog posts in 2017).

 

[kh54s10]

Would it be appropriate for "the forum" to write a sticky on how to convert kits to get "better" color? The approach seems to have remained consistent over time. As a sticky, new brewers would be able to read it before brewing (rather than after brewing).

It would be a good sticky. But I don't think the part I colored would change much. People will get a kit, brew it, then look for more information.

I for one, back in 2011, bought my equipment and an ingredient kit. I brewed it up and then looked again at the directions the next day. I started my fermentation too warm. I realized my mistake. I contacted Northern Brewer through their forum and got some advise. I then started exploring the internet. So I had the "I goofed, what can I do to fix it post", but on another forum.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Didn't see this thread earlier, but thought I'd "cross-post" it here. While it's an "all-grain" thread, a number of the ideas appear to apply to extract+steep as well.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/higher-srm-whats-going-on.661306/

 

[Steveruch]

2019: Zymurgy Magazine (July/Aug 2019) publishes "no boil" DME recipe (using light, pale ale, and munich DME). Although, the process used may be more thought provoking that the ingredients.

Did you get the July/Aug issue already? It's my piece and I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive.
Thought provoking? I didn't know I had it in me.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Did you get the July/Aug issue already? It's my piece and I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive.
Thought provoking? I didn't know I had it in me.

I'm a "digital only" subscriber & July/Aug was posted last week (it also contains the HomeBrewCon 2020 location ...).

The recipe was (to me anyway) a novel blend of ingredients, timings, and techniques. I have seen a number of the ideas used over in in the "No-Boil Recipes! New for 2019!" thread, but not in the combination that you used.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

People will get a kit, brew it, then look for more information.

Agreed: kits get us started; discussion (and stickies) moves us forward.

In the "looking for more information" scenario, a couple of advantages of well written, well maintained, stickies is that 1) that they can be found visually (no need to search) and 2) they are easy to link to when the question comes up. And the forum doesn't have to depend on individuals to periodically retype answers to periodically occuring questions.

 

[kh54s10]

Agreed: kits get us started; discussion (and stickies) moves us forward.

In the "looking for more information" scenario, a couple of advantages of well written, well maintained, stickies is that 1) that they can be found visually (no need to search) and 2) they are easy to link to when the question comes up. And the forum doesn't have to depend on individuals to periodically retype answers to periodically occuring questions.

I like the idea of a sticky, but I still say most will start... Then look for answers, etc. After starting their fermentation....

 

[Romex2121]

Well ,, my Oberon clone was a failure and not good at all , very bland and flavorless , the 1 gal. That i had used the yeast from Oberon bottles was like drinking colored carbinated water , the 4 gal.With US-05 was a little better but still lacking in flavor while im not real big on heavy hops this kit sure could have used more ,, Not sure if it was a bad kit or bad brewing on my part but im not giving up , currently looking at the Cream of Three Crops cream ale recipe ,,

 

[kh54s10]

Well ,, my Oberon clone was a failure and not good at all , very bland and flavorless , the 1 gal. That i had used the yeast from Oberon bottles was like drinking colored carbinated water , the 4 gal.With US-05 was a little better but still lacking in flavor while im not real big on heavy hops this kit sure could have used more ,, Not sure if it was a bad kit or bad brewing on my part but im not giving up , currently looking at the Cream of Three Crops cream ale recipe ,,

I'm not familiar with Oberon and how flavorful it is, but wheat beers are generally low on flavors compared to other styles. And the choice of a cream ale, which is also traditionally mild, is a bit strange given your comments on the other beers.

 

[Romex2121]

I'm not familiar with Oberon and how flavorful it is, but wheat beers are generally low on flavors compared to other styles. And the choice of a cream ale, which is also traditionally mild, is a bit strange given your comments on the other beers.

Anything would be better than the clone i just made ..

 

[IslandLizard]

Anything would be better than the clone i just made ..

Most wheat beers, like Oberon, cream ales, etc. are pedestrian beers, brewed for the masses, tailored to satisfy many, offend none. Mediocrity IS the target.

Of course you don't have to buy a kit, you can find many proven recipes in our recipe section, then buy the loose ingredients. Or buy a kit on the cheap (they go on sale often, like $20 or so if you buy 3) use it as your base for one of those recipes, and perk it up. Hops always tend to be skimpy in kits.

You want more hop flavor and aroma, brew Pale Ales, and IPAs. And learn how to use hops, here on HBT, not from kit recipes.