1914 Courage Imperial Stout - Which One?

[DBhomebrew]

I was just about ready to go ahead with brewing this recipe on Ron Pattinson's Shut Up blog published in 2012 when Kristen England was writing the Let's Brew recipes.

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2012/02/lets-brew-wednesday-1914-courage.html?m=1
Now I see Ron posted his own recipe in 2019 with a few significant differences. Most notably, the addition of invert and cutting the dry hop.

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2019/08/lets-brew-wednesday-1914-courage.html?m=1
Has anyone brewed either or better yet, both of these? Which would you brew?

Perhaps the distinguished historian @patto1ro would offer some insight? I understand the drop in IBUs, but the addition of invert and cutting the dry hop?

TIA

 

[kevin58]

I have made Ron's version but not Kristen's. It is a very good beer! I prefer his 1848 Russian Imperial Stout (IBSt) however. I believe it is in one of his books.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I've brewed the 2012 recipe (very nice) and sampled the beer from others who also brewed the 2012 recipe (also very nice). I haven't tasted the 2019 recipe.

I'd consider brewing the two recipes 'side-by-side', but I don't have a source for pre-made invert 4 sugar.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Thanks for responses. Very helpful. Major takeaway is that I can't go wrong.

I have made Ron's version but not Kristen's. It is a very good beer! I prefer his 1848 Russian Imperial Stout (IBSt) however. I believe it is in one of his books.

If I'm not mistaken, the 1848 is a Barclay Perkins? I believe it has a similar pale/brown/black grist, but it's hopped at a much higher rate (>100IBU)?

I've brewed the 2012 recipe (very nice) and sampled the beer from others who also brewed the 2012 recipe (also very nice).

Did the dry hop come through at all? After a year or more?

My current thinking it's that I'll use the '19 grist with the '12 hopping. The invert gives me some more room in the mash tun and an extra quart in the fermenter. If my understanding of @kevin58's preference is correct, the extra hopping won't go wrong and @BrewnWKopperKat certainly doesn't think the three different batches he sampled were too bitter. Besides, I use FWH and perceived bitterness will be lower.

I think I've got a plan. Other than the open question of whether the dry hopping is worth doing for a beer I plan to cellar for a good while.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Did the dry hop come through at all? After a year or more?

I brewed it as a small batch, aged about six months. Some of the others had bottles that were a couple of years old, but I don't remember if they dry hopped or not.

 

[DBhomebrew]

A little insight on the hopping from Mr. Pattinson.

Kind of confirms my thought that I can't go far wrong. I'm moving forward with my plan. 2019 grist, 2012 hops. Using Kristen's IBU target and my FWH, I'll come in somewhere between his 64 and Ron's 42.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Mashed in. 1.0qt/lb gets a little thick.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Targeting 152°, mash hit 153°. Bundled up with a blanket it lost a mere 5° over its 2.5hrs.

First runnings drained for a full hour before the solid stream broke up into drops. ~1.107

Dunk sparge with a good mix.

Second runnings were a lot faster. ~1.047

Homemade invert #4

Flame on, second runnings kept draining.

FWH keeping it all in the kettle.

First time with Mittlefrüh. Smells great! Glad I have another few ounces.

Chillin'

 

[DuncB]

I admire you doing that on the stovetop. The wife would end my brewing hobby / habit straightaway if I was in the kitchen.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I admire you doing that on the stovetop. The wife would end my brewing hobby / habit straightaway if I was in the kitchen.

It's one of the benefits of doing >70% of the cooking. It's not exactly my kitchen, but it sure isn't hers.

 

[BarkingSpider]

Haha! I'm 90% the cook so I have a fair bit of latitude in the kitchen. I suspect I would ban myself if I ever had a major spill in there though... :-S

 

[DuncB]

I must sharpen my observation skills. I thought that last photo was a very short pan on a very shiny sink drainer.
Clunk the penny has dropped and the brew is bigger than I thought.
I do brew in the house but the brewery ( someone called it the laundry the disillusioned fool ) and adjacent brew room are better than the kitchen anyway for me.
I'm considering a running and keeping stout from SUABP and then blend them when serving on the beer engine to try and get that pre nitro guinness effect. Although I'm not sure whether it's really running stout that has oxidised mixed with new which seems a more likely combo.

 

[DBhomebrew]

This is what went in the fermenter...

Grist from Ron's 2019 recipe:
60% Maris Otter
20% Brown Malt
10.5% Black Malt
9.5% Invert #4
Came in a touch over target at 1.099 OG

A bit of baking soda in the mash for an estimated 5.55 pH.

Kettle salts to reach an estimated
88/7/40/99/109
Ca/Mg/Na/Cl/SO4

Hops riffed off Kristen's 2012 recipe:
FWH Fuggle 11 or 19IBU
60 Fuggle 32IBU
30 Mittlefrüh 19IBU

If the FWH are calculated as boil time +10%, the calc accepted as providing actual IBUs, overall bitterness comes to 70IBU.

If the FWH are calculated as if they were a 20m addition, purported by some to represent perceived bitterness, it comes to 62IBU.

The gravity sample was syrupy and sweet. Chocolate, coffee, toffee. All dark versions of those flavors. Definitely roasty, but not overpowering the others. Bitterness was clearly present, but still underneath the sweetness.

Pitched Notty last night at a controlled 60°F

Bubbles in the blowoff this morning, no more than 8hrs post-pitch.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Seven days in, krausen has fallen. Dry hopped with Fuggle, .43oz per gallon. Blow-off replaced with an airlock. Raising temp 1°/day until it hits 70 and I'll put it in the basement to clear the freezer for another brew.

Current SG: 1.036 Come on, Notty. Keep working.

Controlled at 60°, high krausen was rather sedate.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Another 48hrs and we're still at 1.036.

I wasn't planning on venturing into the world of Brett, but now I'm thinking I might as well. I've got a spare smaller fermenter, just need to pick up the Brett.

Brett C, I believe? Any suggestion of which lab's?

 

[DBhomebrew]

RDWHAHB

I had checked gravity on Day 7 & 9. Both agreed at 1.036

Now at Day 17, it's at 1.030. That'll do. I'll set it in the basement for another couple weeks before bottling clean.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Just shy of two months in the fermenter.

Primed for 2vol, counting on residual yeast.

All bottled up, safe and sound in the basement until Christmas. And next Christmas, and the next, and hopefully the next.

 

[DBhomebrew]

First bottle at ~7mo conditioning.

Smells of chocolate, coffee, toffee, licorice. Tastes like chocolate, coffee, leather, tobacco. Low hop flavor. Moderate bitterness. Full body, sweet. Long roasty, sweet finish.

 

[DBhomebrew]

~9mo in the bottle.

~12mo in the bottle. Other than the current lack of any hop flavor, tasting notes are rather stable. Head formation/retention much better now. Next time I brew this, it'll get a year in secondary with some brett. It's tasty, but at 1.030 FG, a bit sweet and syrupy for my pallate. Brett would be more accurate anyways.

@Miraculix, check out the improvement in head retention over the last year in the three pics above.