184 SRM?? How??

[pdallasanta]

Hi everybody.

I'm trying to clone Uinta's Labyrinth Black Ale, one of the best beers I have ever had.

The brewery's website says it has 13.2%ABV, 56IBU and 184 SRM!

184 SRM is very very very dark! As reference, the highest SRM value in BJCP styleguide is 40.

As a rough estimante, I'll need about 35% of roasted barley in order to achieve this color.

Does anyone have already used this huge amout of black grains? I have never seen a recipe using more than 10-12%.

Does anyone have a clue on how can this beer be so black and at the same time so well balanced?

Thanks!
Paulo

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

First thought is that it's a typo or mistake. I can't imagine any brewery wanting a 184 SRM ale.

Second thought is to look into using Sinamar. I think you might be able to get the color without the heavy use of roasted grain.

 

[jfr1111]

Brewer's Caramel ? At the end of the day, to the naked eye, I don't think there's much difference between 40 and 185 SRM. Black is black after all.

 

[pdallasanta]

I've sent an e-mail to the brewery in order to check for the typo hypothesis (no immediate response, let's wait a couple of days)

Maybe they could use Sinamar or caramel, but a can't imagine any reason for boosting the color from 40 to 184 (as said jfr1111, black is black after all).

And what about a huge amount of cold-steeped dark grains? Any thought?

 

[theonetrueruss]

a bunch of de-bittered black malt? Never used the stuff so not so sure how it affects flavor.

 

[pdallasanta]

I've just got a reply from Uinta Brewing:

> Hi Paulo,
>
>The information on our webpage is correct, Labyrinth is really dark beer!
>Cheers!

So we can discard the typo hypothesis.

 

[makomachine]

What a lab says and what your eyes detect are two different things. I wouldn't target that SRM if I was making a clone and would foxpcus on the flavor, aroma, and color appearance when building it up.

 

[smokinghole]

Lots of midnight wheat?

 

[rayg]

Hi everybody.

I'm trying to clone Uinta's Labyrinth Black Ale, one of the best beers I have ever had.

The brewery's website says it has 13.2%ABV, 56IBU and 184 SRM!

184 SRM is very very very dark! As reference, the highest SRM value in BJCP styleguide is 40.

As a rough estimante, I'll need about 35% of roasted barley in order to achieve this color.

Does anyone have already used this huge amout of black grains? I have never seen a recipe using more than 10-12%.

Does anyone have a clue on how can this beer be so black and at the same time so well balanced?

Thanks!
Paulo

Homebrew coloring units (HCU) are very roughly double the SRM
number, so you could get about that HCU equivalent (~370 HCU)
with about 3.8 pounds of a 500L dark malt like black or roasted barley
in a 5 gal batch. I assume this beer is very high alcohol to balance
the roast flavor in the beer?

Ray

 

[the_bird]

What a lab says and what your eyes detect are two different things. I wouldn't target that SRM if I was making a clone and would foxpcus on the flavor, aroma, and color appearance when building it up.

+1. There's a threshehold far <184SRM after which you'll never be able to tell the difference. For our perspective, black is black; if it's really 184, that just means you could dilute 3 or 4 parts of water to one part of beer and it's still going to look black.

I wonder if that's an actual measured SRM reading or a calculated value. I know with IBUs, the calculations get more and more out of whack the higher you go, I wonder if there's a similar effect with color. Time to call in James Spencer!

 

[smokinghole]

http://www.monitek.de/basics/color_standards.html#Anchor-EB-915

I couldn't find a SRM procedure quickly but the EBC procedure states that the color is obtained according to the dilution factor after there is light transmittance below 2. So while black is black, there are different levels of black when it comes to dilution. Whatever they have as ingredients to give it 184SRM could contribute to the flavor because they have a lot of whatever the grain is (unless they sinamar).

 

[pdallasanta]

http://www.monitek.de/basics/color_standards.html#Anchor-EB-915

Whatever they have as ingredients to give it 184SRM could contribute to the flavor because they have a lot of whatever the grain is (unless they sinamar).

That's my point. I think even Sinamar would contribute strongly to the flavor.
According to Weyermann's website "In order to raise the color of 1 hl beer though 1 EBC, 14 gr. of SINAMAR® is required."

So we'll need about 750 grams (1.65lb) of Sinamar per 5 gal in order to raise the color from 40 to 184SRM.

Sinamar is CARAFA extract, so it will certainly contribute to the flavor if used in such quantity.

Maybe this beer is so "high gravity" that not even light can escape

 

[pdallasanta]

Had an idea.

I'll perform a low scale experiment consisting of dropping 10 grams (0.35oz) of Sinamar into a 250ml glass of a 12% ABV English Barleywine. This is roughly the same proportion as 1.65lb in 5gal.

The resulting beer should be drinkable, otherwise the Sinamar hypothesis will be discarded.

 

[Jtd6628]

Maybe this beer is so "high gravity" that not even light can escape

I like this thought when I do my first high gravity dark beer I might use it as the description!

 

[Malticulous]

I'm going to have to try this beer. I probably can get it.

 

[michaeltrego]

Theoretically you could get to that SRM and ABV with something like this, but I'm not sure it would taste anything close to the target:

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Anticipated OG: 1.117 Plato: 27.47
Anticipated SRM: 187.0

Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
60.2 14.00 lbs. Briess Pale Malt (2-row) America 1.036 2
25.8 6.00 lbs. Roasted Wheat Malt Germany 1.030 650
8.6 2.00 lbs. Carafa Chocolate Malt Germany 1.030 525
5.4 1.25 lbs. Carafa Special Germany 1.030 600

It would be fun to try!

 

[Malticulous]

I have one now. It's dark but there is about a millimeter of ruby highlight at the edges when I hold it up to the light. I've made stouts that looked like that. The head is light brown. I really don't like to drink beers this high in alcohol.

 

[lumpher]

Homebrew coloring units (HCU) are very roughly double the SRM
number, so you could get about that HCU equivalent (~370 HCU)
with about 3.8 pounds of a 500L dark malt like black or roasted barley
in a 5 gal batch. I assume this beer is very high alcohol to balance
the roast flavor in the beer?

Ray

3.8 lbs of black or roasted barley? might as well lick ashes from a campfire made from very sappy wood

 

[gmoney51]

Bumping this thread as I just cracked a bottle and is it good. Similar taste to DFH Santo Palo Marron. At 13.2% you really have to be careful. One 5 gallon batch could last you a long time. Anyone have any idea on this?

 

[smokinghole]

I still stand by my comment about lots of midnight wheat. Briess advertised that as 550º L / No bitter, astringent, dry flavors or aftertaset
Starts slightly sweet
Hints of roasted flavor
Finishes exceptionally clean

I've used it and I would agree. I think it may be a starting point.

 

[pdallasanta]

I think it's more likely that the SRM value provided by Uinta is not correct. They claim 110 SRM for their Black IPA (Dubhe) but the recipe provided by the brewer to the Jamil Show is far away from that (less than 40).

Uinta website: http://www.uintabrewing.com/brews.php#
Jamil Show podcast: http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/844