137 gallon fermenter IDEA

[Cold_Steel]

:rockin: So here it is, I am building a nano brewery. I have my kettle and its good to go. Now I working on my fermenters.

I am going to convert 2 55 gallon stainless steel drums. I will stack them on top of one another and weld them together with a food grade weld. I will remove the tops and bottoms of the drums. I will purchase the legs and concical and attach them as well. I am fine with this part i think.

However, heating and cooling has become a major concern because it will be in an unregulated temp environment. The plan is build a large copper wort chiller around the outside of it and use a 55 gallon reservoir with a heating element and cooling compressor to maintain the 68 degree temp desired. The liquid will be recirculated with a pump. I say liquid because I am not sure if I will use water or another unknown coolent that I am unaware of at this point in time.
Please let me know what you think.

 

[Cape Brewing]

How are you gonna clean it?

 

[Cold_Steel]

It will have a removable lid.

 

[Cape Brewing]

That's one longazz scrub brush.

 

[Cold_Steel]

I have a pressure washer with a heating element on it. Its the commercial version.

 

[Cape Brewing]

a 55 gallon drum is 35 inches tall, times two is six feet... plus... what?? gotta be another 2-3 feet of conical...

... then put that sucker on legs...

So you'll have to get on a ladder and reach down into a 8-9 foot tall tube that's top is about ten feet off the floor and scrub the bottom of the conical??

 

[Cold_Steel]

The pressure washer has the gun on it which is 4' long + my arm which is 3 feet. The gun will be at the bottom but you are right I will be on a ladder. I will not have a lot physcial "scrub" motion but I will not need it becuase of the pressure of the nozel. Its strong. I use it to peel off grease from heavy equipment and it does the job perfect.

 

[conpewter]

If you have the room you could always lay it down on it's side to clean it, then put it back up (block and tackle setup). I think it would be easier to clean that way.

Otherwise sounds like a good idea. You may end up wrapping it in copper tubing and then surrounding that with insulation. Also make sure your cooling unit can handle the heat it will put out.

 

[Cold_Steel]

I am of unsure about the cooling compressor the most. I have looked into a thermoelectic but I am unsure of the size i will need or which model i should use. I tend to get the biggest just because it will do the job the fastest and shut off. I was planning on wrapping the entire fermenter with insulation (which kind im not sure whats best) and then the lines coming and going with that black foam type thats like a sleeve.

 

[freddyb]

For your temp control, I would suggest going with your idea of wrapping a copper coil around the outside, plus doing a stainless steel coil on the inside. Then connect the two by doing a through-wall SS bulkhead like the one sold at Homebrew Heaven for $26.

 

[Cold_Steel]

ahh I am nervous about the coil on the inside for cleaning purposes. It gives those critters a lot of places to hide. However, I am not sure of the advantages. I would imagine because it has direct contact it will be more effective?

Conpewter made me think. maybe it would be better to have 2 reservoirs for Hot water and cold water. I would then run 2 lines to each.

 

[MrShake]

I'm trying to imagine the cost for the copper alone... astronomical!!! AWESOME idea though!

 

[Cold_Steel]

a 50' roll is 40 bucks. thats not crazy bad.

 

[Cold_Steel]

I really need to know what size cooling compessor to use or cooling device.

 

[DrinksWellWithOthers]

Not trying to hijack your thread, but if you're fermenting in a 137 gallon vessel, what are you mashing and boiling in? Any pics?

 

[944play]

You might take something away from Brewpastor's chest freezer full of glycol rig.

 

[Cold_Steel]

My kettle is a 55 gallon stainless steel drum. Sorry no pics. I will post all when brewery is complete.


944play great addition to the thread. I found that to be spot on.

i knew there had to be a different liquid other than water that would hold temps better. It look like he was running his fluid through the fermenter. I totally want to stay away from that for cleaning purposes. I believe that was the brewpastors model.
I wish i could get the model numbers to all of these.

 

[samc]

Why not just split the batch and ferment in two barrels? Seems easier to deal with. Would also allow for some experimentation on different temps & yeasts, etc.

 

[beerocd]

Why not just split the batch and ferment in two barrels? Seems easier to deal with. Would also allow for some experimentation on different temps & yeasts, etc.

And just what exactly is extreme about that? nothing. I think he's going for the biggest fermenter on HBT title. :rockin: That IS a whole lot of the SAME beer though - maybe the OP should share the recipe if it's that good.

-OCD

 

[Cold_Steel]

Beerocd is right it is a whole lot of good beer. I am siked to know i have reached EXTREME THREADS + i have a great buzz from my homebrew right now so cheers. I look forward to hearing from everyones thoughts as we all sober up tomorrow.
and to be serious for one second. I plan on building 3 of these. I still have several other expermitenal fermentors. I have achieved my ideal brew and its been a big hit so I am moving forward with my business plan.
However, we all know what a plan is right?
A set of events that will never transpire. Cheers.

 

[scinerd3000]

what exactly do you mean by food grade weld? I was looking into something similar but with 3 55 gallon 304 steel drums in a brutus10 type setup...this is gonna be huge!

 

[Cold_Steel]

Same system.
BT - Brazing and Welding 304L Stainless Steel
this says a little about food grade.

 

[beerocd]

I think by food grade the OP is referring to the quality of the weld more than what metals he'll be using. Food grade would be as smooth as possible to offer no peaks or valleys for microorganisms to hide in. I just read something along these lines in an old BYO. "The wizard" works in a welding shop too, and he was discussing quality of welds in big vessels.

-OCD

 

[Cold_Steel]

beercod said it best!

I am still hoping someone can tell me the model for the cooling unit or link in what i will need. I find the cooling to be the most difficult aspect of this build.

 

[RecklessDeck]

That cooling system sounds inefficient, by that I mean seems like it would take a shattun of energy to cool that sucker. Occasionally you see walk-in coolers or freezers on craigslist for cheap, seems like that might be a better option. Or maybe the interior stainless coil would be better, although that would only worsen the cleaning issue.

 

[beerocd]

Build a room, pinkboard it and reflectix it, and cool it with a window AC unit and a Johnson control.

Here's a guy that made his own glycol cooler.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xhRCqsepMc]YouTube - Home made glycol beer cooling ( cooler ) system[/ame]

-OCD

 

[eschatz]

Is there an upright freezer that could hold a 55 gal barrel? If so, then split into two fermentors and buy two freezers. That might work. Or maybe a STEP-SON of a FERMENTATION CHAMBER using an upright freezer.... that might work.

<--------- I could be talking out of my ass...

 

[carnevoodoo]

For cooling I think you have all of two options. 1) Build a cool room. You could insulate and air condition an entire room for your fermenter. Seems a bit extraneous though. 2) Glycol system. which realistically seems like the only way to do something like this. I would expect that you're going to need a custom solution for this, so good luck.

 

[carnevoodoo]

How to Build a Glycol Chiller for a Commercial Brewery - Artipot

 

[kaiser423]

As an engineer, I like the glycol setup. That's a good way to do it. But it seems like a lot of work and equipment. Depends upon your level of commitment I guess.

The other way would be to frame a simple wood structure of 2x4's (and probably a couple of 4x4s) around the fermenter like a small room and line it with insulation, and then just pop in a window-style (or like in hotels) heater/cooler unit and call it a day. You could put a box fan in to help stir the air some if you felt the need. Have one side be a big door, ell even put in on casters and you could roll in over the fermenter and roll it off easily.

 

[ClaudiusB]

As an engineer, I like the glycol setup. That's a good way to do it. But it seems like a lot of work and equipment. Depends upon your level of commitment I guess.

My neighbor and I built a glycol chiller with a 30 gel reservoir and a Copland cooling unit.
The evaporator design and fabrication was done by my neighbor, my part included the mechanical, electrical, cosmetic design and fabrication.

To cool the 130 gel fermenter, you can use clamp on stainless cooling belts.
My fermenters are equipped with internal stainless coils.
Cleaning is no big deal, install two spray balls and you are done.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

 

[Cold_Steel]

****update**** I am going to recieve the hopper today:rockin: I am super stoked.

I wanted some advise. Does anyone know this distance I should make the hole for the upper butterfly valve?
example the one to take samples.
Complete Conical Fermenter - Pro-Series (7.1 Gallon) | MoreBeer

Also, I want to add this thermowell to the fermentor as well. I really dont know how it works. I would imagine you put a ?probe? into it to measure the internal temps? If so I think I should use but where should I install it on the fermenter? I have seen them installed on the hopper part on larger models. I asume this is where it should go too. If this is the place, is there a specific location where it should go?
http://morebeerpro.com/view_product/7526/102972/Tri-Clamp_Thermowell

http://www.blichmannengineering.com/Fermenator Web V3/Photo Gallery.htm
one other thing if you go to the image that has the "racking arm" its the interior image of the fermenter. What is it used for and where can i get it if I need it.
I will start taking pictures of the progress real soon.
Thanks

 

[craigd]

Question - does a tall skinny fermenter like that impact fermentation? I'm just curious...

 

[Cold_Steel]

So it just got very real for me today
https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/data/1/medium/IMG_2701.JPG

 

[Cold_Steel]

Now its off to the welders!
https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/data/1/medium/IMG_2703.JPG
I still need some answers though about holes and stuff. Anyone?

 

[Sawdustguy]

You may be on your own because I don't think many of us have anything that big to give you an answer. Just my guess.

 

[HomebrewJeff]

Question - does a tall skinny fermenter like that impact fermentation? I'm just curious...

I have heard of that, something to do with the osmotic pressure on the yeast.

A couple of google hits I found:

Brewing
By Dennis E. Briggs, Chris A. Boulton, Peter A. Brookes, Roger Stevens

Beer Fermentation Systems Used In Brewing

They range in size between 100 and 7,000 hl, have from a 1:5 to a 3:1 ratio of height to diameter, and work under pressures of from 1 to 1.3 bars above atmospheric pressure. In fermentation vessels with a ratio greater than 3:1, there is a tendency for increased production of higher alcohols at the expense of esters (5).

So assuming a 55 gallon drum is 23w x 35h, two of them will be 23w x 70h which is just slightly over a 3:1 ratio, but then you'll also need to add in the height of the conical as well.

 

[Cold_Steel]

wow never knew about this. The conical is 26.5 +33+33 is the height. Its 22.5 radias. EEERRRRRRRGHHHHH. darn it. I have to lower it. Man I wish i knew that earlier.
Thanks for saving me at this stage!!!

 

[B-Dub]

Where do you live and plan on opening this Nano Brewery?

 

[Cold_Steel]

https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/data/1/medium/making_parts_and_shop_area_012.jpg
Ok so here is my mock up. I set this on my kettle to see if it would match and its PERFECT. I just have to buy the next drum and attach. I AM STOKED!

IM in dc!