110v Recirculating eBIAB 2.5 gallon batches

[P-J]

P-J,
I may be changing my direction on my build, any way I could get a drawing like above (110v dual element, 1 pump , E-stop, key switch, etc) but with a BCS460 instead of a PID? I would like to be able to manually turn on the pump and elements as well. Once again, all of your hard work is greatly appreciated. Also sorry to Hijack the thread guys, Just didn't want to start yet another electrical drawing thread..

I don't have a drawing for a system as you describe using the BCS460. IMHO, the BCS460 is a fairly expensive and complex product to be used for such a setup.

When you are positive that this is your plan, I'll invest some time in planing a diagram. It will take several hours to do such a dagram from scarch.

P-J

 

[bayoujeeper]

I don't have a drawing for a system as you describe using the BCS460. IMHO, the BCS460 is a fairly expensive and complex product to be used for such a setup.

When you are positive that this is your plan, I'll invest some time in planing a diagram. It will take several hours to do such a dagram from scarch.

P-J

I believe your right P-J, I will stick with the 110v PID setup. Thanks again for all of your help!

 

[ekjohns]

I built my system a while ago and love it. I recently decided I should get double use out of it and use it for sous vide. My concern however is leaving the system running while at work. Here is the scenarios and solutions I have come up with.

1. SSR can fail in the closed state, and because sous vide needs to sit for up to 48 hrs I am afraid of a failure that will cause the water to boil while at work which could cause the pot to run dry and become a fire hazard. My solution was to use this normally closed relay from auber which will go between the alarm and contactor. Thus if the kettle gets above the set temp the alarm goes off opening the relay and turning off the contactor effectively killing power to the element.

2. A short in the electrical wire which could cause a fire. This should be covered by the GFCI which would trip and kill power correct? My electrical box is made of metal and grounded so any short should not cause a significant fire. I have also recheck all the wires and the terminal clips are on very tight.

3. PID failure. In this case the PID should break the signal to the SSR stopping power. I also have fast blow fuses so a power spike should blow the fuse and thus kill power to the whole thing.

Are these legitimate solutions to these problems? Can anyone else think of any problems that might arise while at work? I would really like to make it as safe as possible without being paranoid.

P-J if it is not too much to ask could you design a diagram to encompass the normally closed relay that is controlled by the alarm as a fail safe in the case of a SSR failure

 

[P-J]

...
P-J if it is not too much to ask could you design a diagram to encompass the normally closed relay that is controlled by the alarm as a fail safe in the case of a SSR failure

Quetion... What is your base diagram? If I'm going to modify a diagram for you - I need a starting point. No?

P-J

 

[ekjohns]

Yes that would help wouldn't it! I am using the basic diagram below with the following changes. 1. I do not have a switch for the pump. 2. I have a main push button switch that controls a contactor for main power to the whole control panel.

Thanks again for all your help P-J!

 

[bayoujeeper]

I don't have a drawing for a system as you describe using the BCS460. IMHO, the BCS460 is a fairly expensive and complex product to be used for such a setup.

When you are positive that this is your plan, I'll invest some time in planing a diagram. It will take several hours to do such a dagram from scarch.

P-J

P-J,
After much thought, I have decided this is the way I would like to go (Dual 110V, BCS-460, key switch, alarm/Buzzer, with manual options). If you have some free time to do a drawing for this, it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks again for all of your help on these electric builds!

 

[PortDawgBrewer]

This thread is a little old but I'm glad I found it. Pretty much exactly what I want to do. Had some parts and have started buying others. Many thanks to all involved including OP and PJ.

 

[orangehero]

Get rid of the spray tip, just lay a short length of silicone hose on top of the grain.

 

[sumbrewindude]

Tagging this thread because:
1) It's chock full of awesome instructions
2) Great builds.
3) I've got an unused turkey pot and NEED to make one of these.

 

[PortDawgBrewer]

All parts are in and started drilling holes for switches and such. Kettle almost done just have to clean up element and get it installed. Pretty good start so far.

 

[sumbrewindude]

Serious question for those in the know and those with recliners and an educated guess -

Piecing together one of these over the next few months, and I'm stuck at power/elements.

Here's the deal:

The house is old (25+years), and while the kitchen does have two 20A circuits ACCORDING to the breaker box, there are no 20A outlets in the kitchen. All are 15A. I've got no problem swapping out some outlets, but I have no idea what gauge the wiring is, and given the age of the house and it's requirements at the time of build I'm suspecting that it's not the 12/2 I'm required for a dedicated 20A circuit. Because of that, I'm not going to change the outlets, leaving me with essentially two 15A circuits.

Doing the math, a 1500W/120VAC element should be able to get 3.25gal of water up to boil (provided the pot is insulated, and you've got an hour to spare). What kind of boil it'll be I have no idea, but if the time required is any indication it's not going to be a hard boil.

Obviously a 2000W element would be a better choice, so my question is would it be a good idea to put in an additional 1500W element, and run it via extension cable to another circuit for the sake of boiling? Eg, run the one element for mash/recirc, and turn the other one on for boil only?

Seems like an awful lot going on for a 7gal pot, but what's the point of doing this if the results aren't going to be acceptable.

Thanks!

 

[iijakii]

Why not just pull out the receptacle and see what gauge wiring it is running?

But yeah, what you could do is have one element running to your control panel, controlled via PID; then your other element plugged directly into the wall (or to your panel with a flip-receptacle combo) that's strictly on-off. That'd be the simplest route. There's also a way to have the PID control two elements simultaneously, I know PJ made a diagram for someone doing that... I think it's in that dual 2kw thread here on the front or second page.

But most importantly: you don't need to do any of this, most likely. People say 2000W will bring 5 gallons to a good boil, and some say it brings 6g to a boil, some say it doesnt (might depend on diameter and insulation?). So if 2000w boils 5+gal I don't see why 1500w wouldn't boil 3.25g fine?

 

[Carlscan26]

"I don't see why 1500w wouldn't boil 3.25g fine?" - I agree. Why not try it if you're really not sure - you can always add the second element in later.

 

[sumbrewindude]

Why not just pull out the receptacle and see what gauge wiring it is running?

But yeah, what you could do is have one element running to your control panel, controlled via PID; then your other element plugged directly into the wall (or to your panel with a flip-receptacle combo) that's strictly on-off. That'd be the simplest route. There's also a way to have the PID control two elements simultaneously, I know PJ made a diagram for someone doing that... I think it's in that dual 2kw thread here on the front or second page.

But most importantly: you don't need to do any of this, most likely. People say 2000W will bring 5 gallons to a good boil, and some say it brings 6g to a boil, some say it doesnt (might depend on diameter and insulation?). So if 2000w boils 5+gal I don't see why 1500w wouldn't boil 3.25g fine?

I'm sure I could pull the outlet and check the gauge, but according to the box, it's a multi-outlet series - according to code (if I'm understanding it correctly) the 20A circuit has to be a dedicated circuit, which won't be possible with the current wiring in the walls.

I've been collecting PJ's diagrams - he makes wiring those controllers so easy. Seriously, I look at schematics all day long for work and his diagrams are purposeful, simple to understand, and easy to replicate even for those not electrically inclined. Dude needs a high five and a beer whenever he is met in society.

I think the only main issues I was concerned with when using the 1500W element was the time to boil and the level of uncertainty when using "enough" power instead of "MORE" power. I didn't know folks were using a single 2KW element for 5gal, I thought for sure that'd be in 3KW (208/220) or dual 2KW elements.

I'll plan the build with one 1500W element, but position the pickup tube and temp probe out of the way in case I need to add another element directly opposite the first.

Two other questions not directly related -

1) Sight glass for volume. Worth it? Or an additional "meh" to clean?
2) Anyone see the PID/SSR/heatsink combo on Amazon? LINK: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087O6S2A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

35 bucks seems a little cheap, but a 25A SSR and controller would fit the 1500W build with no issues I can see...

 

[iijakii]

Definitely do a sight-glass. They're not a pain to clean IMHO, plus it's boil side anyways ,who cares if it's dirty . I think the 1500w with room to add another one if need be is a good solution.

I don't think the outlets have to be dedicated. I thought so too at first, but my apartment was built after the code update and it has two different 20A circuits in the kitchen, but they aren't dedicated. One runs all of the outlets in the dining room as well, the other one does the fridge and a couple other kitchen outlets.

 

[user 78027]

I have similar electrical issues in my house. I am in the first stages of my design so it might not even end up like this.

I was going to use two heating elements somewhere around 800 watts. Since the current is lower for each element I was going to put the ssr and the transistor that turns it on in the box that houses the element. I am building my own pid with an fpga so I can control each element separately if I want to. With the AC power for each element local to the element the power can come from where ever I need, even a better extension cord in the room next door.

 

[andrhamm]

2) Anyone see the PID/SSR/heatsink combo on Amazon? LINK: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087O6S2A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



35 bucks seems a little cheap, but a 25A SSR and controller would fit the 1500W build with no issues I can see...

I picked up this combo for my 1500w panel. Haven't installed it yet but my initial impression is that the PID itself is fairly cheap feeling compared to the Auber PIDs on my Kal clone... the face of the PID is uneven, making the arrow on the right difficult to press to the point where it clicks like the other buttons. I'm afraid it could make setting the parameters a pain but we'll see. But if it works, the price is a great deal at less than an Auber PID on its own. Curious if anybody else has experience with this PID as well...

 

[PortDawgBrewer]

Getting closer every day. Panel is all wired up (except the e-stop). I need to finish the element in the kettle and give it a leak test. Soon it will be time to test drive. This is a lot of **** in a little box. FYI don't assemble the box until most of the wiring is complete. The box itself can be a pain in the ass because it's miss shaped and holes don't line up correctly. Over all I'm happy with the way it turned out so far.

 

[Sippin37]

The box itself can be a pain in the ass because it's miss shaped and holes don't line up correctly.

Haha, I had the same issue. I dont think I even used 2 of the screws it came with. I have just enough in there to keep it together. But boy do I love this setup, makes brew days so much more enjoyable!

 

[PortDawgBrewer]

TaDa... Got it all finished, finally!!! 18 hour leak test on kettle and not a drop. Final wire up of the element, calibration of site tube, and it's off for a test run. So far nobody has been electrocuted so that's good. Amazed at how quiet the pump runs. I to had to lossen the body screws to get it to start pumping, but kind of expected that from prior posts. Once temp gets up some I'll auto tune this bad boy and should be ready to start the year off with a mini brew session. Many thanks again to jrb03 and P-J, as well as others on this thread.

 

[sumbrewindude]

Nice! What temp probe did you go with, the Auber?

 

[PortDawgBrewer]

Nice! What temp probe did you go with, the Auber?

Yep, the Auber rtd with cable upgrade. Seemed like the right choice for others so why not me too...

 

[Woodbrews]

Yep, the Auber rtd with cable upgrade. Seemed like the right choice for others so why not me too...

How does the upgraded cable from Auber connect to your controller box? Is it a female XLR jack, or something else? I'm about to pull the trigger on my Auber order and want to make sure I'm getting the right parts. Thanks!

 

[PortDawgBrewer]

How does the upgraded cable from Auber connect to your controller box? Is it a female XLR jack, or something else? I'm about to pull the trigger on my Auber order and want to make sure I'm getting the right parts. Thanks!

It's got spring loaded quick disconnects on both ends (kettle & panel). You have a standard type panel mount with wires for the pid. Probe stays in the T-fitting all the time with a quick disconnect there as well so you can completely remove the cable and store it.

 

[ekjohns]

For those of you wondering about 1500w boiling 3.25 gal it likely will but only with a skinny pot similar to a turkey fryer. One option I did was if you have an electric stove you can place it on there to add heat during the boil

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[PortDawgBrewer]

OK... So how the hell exactly do you set up the alarm on the pid to go off when temperature reaches your set temp? I've been reading up on it but can't find an answer. I know its possible cause others have done it. I want to set mash temp and walk away, alarm goes off when temp is reached and I stroll in and turn it off. Sounds easy doesn't it??????? My set up is this thread exactly. Didn't change a thing on P-J's design. Thanks in advance if anyone still lurking around here...

 

[dyqik]

You need to set an Alarm 1 (ALM1) setpoint on the PID so that AL1 closes when the PID setpoint temperature is reached. AL1 will close when the temperature reaches the ALM1 setpoint plus the Hysteresis band = ALM1+Hy, so you need to set ALM1 to the PID setpoint minus whatever Hy is set to.

By default ALM1 is set to 100 C/F and Hy to 0.3 C/F. This means that AL1 will close when the temperature exceeds 100.3 C/F, and open again when it falls below 99.7 C/F.

If you have set ALM1 to be the same as your PID setpoint, then it may be that your system has tight enough control that it never reaches ALM1+Hy, and so it doesn't set off the alarm.

 

[sablesurfer]

What do you have your ALM1 set at on the PID now? Is it not going off or is it going off at the wrong temp?

(If you're asking how as in where is the setting, it is something like the 8 button press once you get into settings on your PID. If you print out the manual, it lists all the settings you have to click through in order.)

 

[singybrue]

Thanks to all the incredibly helpful posts in this thread, I'm putting together my parts order to build this system, and I have a couple of
questions for those who have built theirs already.

What would you change about your system/build if you were to do it again?

Also, what's the best location for the temp probe. I've seen it in the base of the sight glass, at the pot output, pump output and top of the recirc loop, as well as the side of the pot.
What is the most accurate reading location for the mash?

Tia

 

[Sippin37]

I wouldn't change anything about this build, I love it exactly the way it is. The only thing I do differently is that I use the basket along with the paint strainer bags. I do this because it makes it easier for me to lift all the grain out and then let the basket hang above the liquid to drain. Sometimes I will even pour some "sparge" water over the grains to try and get more sugar out of them and to bring my preboil liquid to the correct level. I did drill the holes on the bottom of the basket to make them larger to let more liquid flow through. I also close the valve a little during the mash to impede the flow going to the pump, this helps to ensure that there is always plenty of liquid below the grains feeding into the pump. No need to be recirculating that much liquid throughout an entire 60 minute mash, IMO.

I think the temp probe is in a great location. It is right next to the liquid being pulled into the pump so I doubt there would be much different if it were at the pump output even. Leaving it right inside the pot where the OP designed it also helps when you use an immersion chiller so you know when you have lowered it to pitching temp.

Great build again OP, I still love this thing!