11-11-11 Old Ale Swap and Critique Thread

[MarsColonist]

Jamil's Dry Stout out of BCS (Its only MO, Flaked Barley and Roasted Barley if I recall correctly). Only difference is I cold steeped the Roasted Barley in a gallon of water overnight, and only mashed and did water chemistry for Maris Otter and Flaked Barley. Added the "juice" of the Roasted Barley at Flame out; lost a bit of color, but the roastiness wasnt in your face. I agree that I slightly overcarbed.. was going for about 2 Volumes, but probably went to 2.2-2.3.

 

[smokinghole]

Hand's been slapped by Big Brother. It's been suggested that I keep quiet.
In case I don't come back, here's what my 11-11-11 blind tasting looked like. Mine and KingBrian are in the mix along with my three swaps.

Did you live?

 

[CA-LT1]

Ok, my notes on SmokingHole's 11-11-11

Aroma -Well, the Brett comes through, but not overly so. I get another note, something earthy. Was this oaked? If so, what did you use and for how long? It doesn't smell the same as my medium toast american oak.

Appearance -Good head,slightly off white, remained for at least half the glass. Beer was dark orange, slightly cloudy (I only had it in the fridge for 2 days, that might have been it)

Flavor - just a little tart, the malt is somewhat masked by the bitterness. I'm by no means a real beer judge, so this may be way out of line, but I would say I even get a mint flavor in the aftertaste and breath in

Mouthfeel - Good body, seems like yours finished higher then mine. Carb level seems high, but I'm not complaining, I think it's great that the last gulp is still carbbed, even after I slowly type this up

Overall - Interestingly different then mine. The bitterness or perhaps tartness is way different. Solid brew, had plenty of subtle flavors that I couldn't quite put my finger on.

Thanks!

 

[smokinghole]

I aimed for 2vol. I think I ended up closer to 2.5 or a touch over that even. I used DME to prime and primed using the DME as 100% fermentable dextrose. I think the small amount of oxygen exposure from bottling allowed the brett to ferment just a touch further when I bottled. I heard of people saying that after a brett fermentation if they swirl a yeast cake it will begin fermenting again, I assume from more oxygen.

Anyhow I did oak it with hungarian med toast oak and soaked the cubes in rum. I might be popping the caps in a month or two to let some C02 bleed off.

 

[jmo88]

KingBrian's Westy 12

S- Candy sweet nose. Like a mixed bag of hard candies. Dried fruits- cherry, raisin, prune. Not much Belgian yeast character.

A- Brilliantly clear. Beautiful jewel-like ruby red. Poured with little head and decreased to a faint ring.

F- Wonderfully rich caramel malt at first sip. A wide array of dried fruit character and candies. Hints of chocolate and liqueurs (not sure which one specifically). Undefinable spicing.

M- medium to light body very low carbonation.

O- I really like this beer. I bet it has some good age on it. I wish it had a little more carbonation and Belgian yeast character. I like the recipe. I'd like to make something like this but try to get a little more yeast character. What yeast did you use and what temp?

 

[CA-LT1]

Somkinghole's Bumpkin ale.

Aroma -Getting a little "circus peanut" smell. Maybe a fried banana

Appearance -Strong head, large bubbles, dissipated in a few minutes. Cloudy (of cource, its a pumpkin ale!), deep red to brown in color

Flavor - Up front, the pumpkin flavor blends well with the malt. Slight spice dimension. There's a flavor that I'm having a hard time identifying. I noticed it in the 11-11-11 as well. maybe bitter? Sour? I'd say a little like sucking on a tea bag, my room mate said grape seed. Not overwhelming, just something I noticed

Mouthfeel - Good body, just what I'd think of for a pumpkin ale.

Overall - Good brew, want to compare it to your pumpkin with the english yeast to see the difference this yeast strain had

 

[KingBrianI]

KingBrian's Westy 12

S- Candy sweet nose. Like a mixed bag of hard candies. Dried fruits- cherry, raisin, prune. Not much Belgian yeast character.

A- Brilliantly clear. Beautiful jewel-like ruby red. Poured with little head and decreased to a faint ring.

F- Wonderfully rich caramel malt at first sip. A wide array of dried fruit character and candies. Hints of chocolate and liqueurs (not sure which one specifically). Undefinable spicing.

M- medium to light body very low carbonation.

O- I really like this beer. I bet it has some good age on it. I wish it had a little more carbonation and Belgian yeast character. I like the recipe. I'd like to make something like this but try to get a little more yeast character. What yeast did you use and what temp?

Thanks for the review! I used 3787, same strain as westvleteren uses. I let it get up to 80 or something, can't remember now but all that info is in the westy 12 brew and swap thread if you can find it. I've always found it to be a fairly neutral yeast, even at those temps, though it does give beers a very particular set of subtle flavors I really like.

 

[CA-LT1]

Strat thru marshall's American stout.
Alright, not a super thorough critique, but it had a thick soft head, just a little to the aroma, taste was smooth, with some bitterness in the aftertaste. IBUs around 40? Super clean, just what I'd want in a stout. Solid brew, I can see why it won best in show.

So, mind sharing the recipe? ;-)

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

Strat thru marshall's American stout.
Alright, not a super thorough critique, but it had a thick soft head, just a little to the aroma, taste was smooth, with some bitterness in the aftertaste. IBUs around 40? Super clean, just what I'd want in a stout. Solid brew, I can see why it won best in show.

So, mind sharing the recipe? ;-)

Thanks buddy, glad you liked it. Here's the recipe. Pardon my use of metric, it makes it super easy to write recipes in percentages and then scale them to whatever batch size you want.

Size: 6.0 gal
Efficiency: 75.0%
Attenuation: 73.0%
Calories: 267.98 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.080 (1.050 - 1.075)
Terminal Gravity: 1.022 (1.010 - 1.022)
Color: 33.54 (30.0 - 40.0)
Alcohol: 7.69% (5.0% - 7.0%)
Bitterness: 58.1 (35.0 - 75.0)

Ingredients:
6.16 kg Pale Ale Malt
0.33 kg White Table Sugar (Sucrose)
0.41 kg 2-Row Caramel Malt 40L
0.16 kg 2-Row Caramel Malt 80L
0.74 kg Chocolate Malt
0.41 kg Roasted Barley

33.0 g Magnum (13.6%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min

20.0 g Centennial (10.0%) - added during boil, boiled 10 min
20.0 g Cascade (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 10 min

30.0 g Centennial (10.0%) - added during boil, boiled 1 min
30.0 g Cascade (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 1 min

30.0 g Centennial (10.0%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
20.0 g Cascade (5.5%) - added dry to secondary fermenter

Mash at 152 for an hour, ferment with WLP007 (a large pitch) at 65F and ramp up to 70 over the course of 5 days.

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

jmo88's Ramble on Rosé

Aroma: Floral aroma, like spring wildflowers. A touch of spicy phenols, but very subdued and in the background.

Appearance: Deep cherry red in color, somewhat hazy. Very small white head that lingers.

Flavor: Cherry notes run from the beginning to the end of the taste. Strong dark cherry flavor is balanced by some spicy phenolics, wood tannins, and a moderate amount of bitterness. This is a very, very nice tasting beer. Very dry finish is balanced by a perceived sweetness from the cherry flavor.

Mouthfeel: High carbonation, good acidic co2 bite on the tongue that supports the cherry in this beer.

Overall: This is a great beer, well done. Very clean, nice dry finish, and a wonderful cherry flavor that takes center stage without becoming cloying or overbearing. I could drink a lot of this.

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

jmo, can I have the recipe for your cherry saison?

Let's keep the beer reviews coming guys. The feedback is one of the best parts of this swap!

 

[jmo88]

Thanks for the positive review. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Here is the recipe and sorry for the metric. I have no idea what the ABV actually was since the cherries were added after primary fermentation.

Recipe: Ramble on Rosé- (Oaked Cherry Saison)
Style: 16E-Belgian And French Ale-Belgian Speciality Ale

Recipe Overview

Wort Volume Before Boil: 7.00 US gals
Wort Volume After Boil: 6.00 US gals
Volume Transferred: 5.80 US gals
Water Added: 0.00 US gals
Volume At Pitching: 5.80 US gals
Final Batch Volume: 5.00 US gals
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.049 SG
Expected OG: 1.057 SG
Expected FG: 1.005 SG
Expected ABV: 6.8 %
Expected ABW: 5.4 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 32.2
Expected Color: 3.8 SRM
Apparent Attenuation: 89.9 %
Mash Efficiency: 77.0 %
Boil Duration: 90.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 70-77 degF rising from pitch to finish.

Fermentables
Belgian Pilsen Malt 9lb 8oz (79.2 %) In Mash/Steeped
US Rye Malt 1lb 8oz (12.5 %) In Mash/Steeped
US Flaked Rye 1lb 0oz (8.3 %) In Mash/Steeped

Hops
US Magnum (10.0 % alpha) 22 g Loose Pellet Hops used 60 Min From End
German Tettnang (5.7 % alpha) 30 g Loose Pellet Hops used 10 Min From End

Other Ingredients
Black Pepper 3 g used In Boil
Bing Cherries 1451 g used In Fermenter
Oak- Medium French 34 g used In Fermenter

Yeast: Wyeast 3711-French Saison

Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Full Mash
Schedule Name:Single Step Infusion (67C/152F)
Step: Rest at 149 degF for 60 mins

Recipe Notes
Add Pepper at 5min remaining. It is 1.5 Tbs roughly cracked. Add Oak once fermentation starts. Put the oak in a dish with a little water and boil it in the microwave and add all of the oak and the water to the fermenter. Add the cherries once fermentation is finished. Pit and pasteurize the cherries at 170F and let sit for 10 minutes.

 

[CA-LT1]

Strat thru marshall's 11-11-11

Aroma: My roommate smelled apple, and hops. I definitely get a sweet, not really sour fruit notes. Also some earthiness.

Appearance: White head dissipated quickly. Deep red to mahogany in color, just slightly cloudy.

Flavor: Sweet, not overly so, but not overwhelmed by the brett. There is a sour twinge, but it takes a back seat to the malt, and other complexities that I just cant put my finger on.

Mouthfeel: Excellent body! What did this finish at? How did you stop the Brett from drying it out too much? Carb level is low, which i think is right on for the style. Finish is a bitterness that lingers long enough for you to say "Wow, that was unique!"

Overall, great! I would guess you have excellent control of your entire process, I didn't get anything I might think is a flaw. Did you oak this one? For how long?

Nice one!

 

[jmo88]

AnOldUR's 11-11-11

S- Dark chocolate, vinous, dark dried fruits. BIG sherry notes (strong oxidative character) pleasing though. Sweet fruit aromatics and big old malt characters like a classic old ale/ barley wine. Some brett, but secondary to the malt and sherry.

A- Dark brown with ruby highlights. Hazy. Dark tan head, dissipates to a ring.

F- Brett in the front, followed by sherry notes, finishing with a rich deep dark chocolate character almost like a fancy hot fudge. Sweet and heavy on the chocolate, at least beyond what I was expecting.

M- Full. Nice carbonation to cut through the richness.

O- Wow. This is different than what I was expecting. It is very delicious but remarkably different than the ones I've sampled so far (mine and KingBrian's). Honestly, it is more to style and in line with BJCP than the others. I bet this would do well in competition. Maybe a little heavy on the oxidation, but well done!

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

Strat thru marshall's 11-11-11

Aroma: My roommate smelled apple, and hops. I definitely get a sweet, not really sour fruit notes. Also some earthiness.

Appearance: White head dissipated quickly. Deep red to mahogany in color, just slightly cloudy.

Flavor: Sweet, not overly so, but not overwhelmed by the brett. There is a sour twinge, but it takes a back seat to the malt, and other complexities that I just cant put my finger on.

Mouthfeel: Excellent body! What did this finish at? How did you stop the Brett from drying it out too much? Carb level is low, which i think is right on for the style. Finish is a bitterness that lingers long enough for you to say "Wow, that was unique!"

Overall, great! I would guess you have excellent control of your entire process, I didn't get anything I might think is a flaw. Did you oak this one? For how long?

Nice one!

Thanks man. I had it on 1oz American oak chips for the full year of secondary. I didn't do anything specifically to stop the brett. To be honest this is one of my first brett beers, and I guess I just got lucky. As far as process control, I am a total gear-head and have basically turned the garage into a brewery with attention to each step of the brewing process.

Glad you've liked the beers so far. Did you get the American Brown or the English Brown from me?

 

[AlphaWolf-Brewery]

CA-LT 11.11.11

Poured with alot of head but quickly returned to a small ring. Was a dark amber in my glass. Smelled very sweet with a small amount of the tart cherry brett at the end. Tasted very much like a lot of the Old Ales I have had before, malty sweet, full bodied small amount of oxidation. The brett took a much smaller role in yours than did in mine. So did the oak, I can get a little bit of oaky tannis at the end but that is it. Over all a very enjoyable beer and quite a bit different than mine. I would like to know what your FG was?

 

[AlphaWolf-Brewery]

Hand's been slapped by Big Brother. It's been suggested that I keep quiet.
In case I don't come back, here's what my 11-11-11 blind tasting looked like. Mine and KingBrian are in the mix along with my three swaps.

Any info on which one you preferred?

 

[jmo88]

Any info on which one you preferred?

Poor guy! I don't think he made it at least he went out with a bang.

 

[AlphaWolf-Brewery]

Guess Im out of the loop, anyone care to fill me in?

 

[CA-LT1]

Alphawolf, thanks for the write up. I must admit, when I tasted a bottle just before I shipped them out, I was thinking I missed the mark bigtime. After hearing the reviews, and tasting others, I think I must have gotten something right. Here's the gravities:
Brewed on 11/26/10 (OG 1.079), racked to secondary with oak on 1/1/11 (1.018), kegged it, force carbbed, and bottled in July(1.010). The pellicle seemed to reform in the bottles, gravity is now 1.006

 

[smokinghole]

I need to get on the ball and review some other beers. I have my last 11-11-11 to do and a couple others.

 

[AlphaWolf-Brewery]

Alphawolf, thanks for the write up. I must admit, when I tasted a bottle just before I shipped them out, I was thinking I missed the mark bigtime. After hearing the reviews, and tasting others, I think I must have gotten something right. Here's the gravities:
Brewed on 11/26/10 (OG 1.079), racked to secondary with oak on 1/1/11 (1.018), kegged it, force carbbed, and bottled in July(1.010). The pellicle seemed to reform in the bottles, gravity is now 1.006

Wow that shocks me, there is now way I would have guess the beer I was tasting was 1.006!! It tasted much fuller, chewy almost. What and how much oak did you use?

 

[KingBrianI]

Sorry for the lack of reviews lately. I was in Germany on a business trip for a week then got back and have been working like crazy trying to meet deadlines and catch up on work. Might get around to reviewing one tonight but I'd rather just drink a beer.

 

[KingBrianI]

jmo88's Spelt Saison

Aroma - Lemon peel and honey. Slightly spicy ginger. Cotton candy. Sweet hay and wildflowers.

Appearance - Poured a nicely-clear, sunny gold. A bright white head of large bubbles popped up then fell quickly.

Flavor - Citrusy, bright, honeyed sweetness but dry in the finish. Clean but flavorful. Slightly spicy in the finish and down the throat. Reminds me a lot of Hennepin, a beer I really like. Very nice balance of flavors.

Mouthfeel - Very nice body, crisp but full. Very satisfying. Moderate carbonation helps keep things lively without becoming prickly. Great job.

Overall - An extremely well-crafted beer. Great flavors, highly drinkable, clean but not lacking in character. Aroma, flavor, mouthfeel - all are spot-on. This is a beer I would buy repeatedly if available. Don't change a thing in this recipe!

 

[jmo88]

Thanks for the encouraging review. I submitted this in the specialty category as an American Farmhouse with raw spelt. It didn't fair well– 29 points. The judges missed the whole saison/farmhouse thing I think because all the sheets just said raw spelt so I got docked for: too spritzy, thin body, phenolic– you know, saison characteristics. Oh well, I thought the american hops and high spelt content deemed it a category 23. I'll try the saison category next time.

Your right though, regardless of any competition, it's a good beer that I feel doesn't need adjusting.

 

[jmo88]

MarsColonist's 810 Dry stout

S- Creamy coffee and light roast notes. Again, this stout immediately reminds me of Guinness, but I am picking up just a bit of staling here and there but it may be this yeast's esters (I don't really know the steam beer style well- especially the yeast). Either way, it is subtle.

A- Dark brown with ruby highlights. Clear. Poured with a small dark tan head that fell to a thin film and dense ring.

F- Some subtle sour notes balancing the light roast. The flavor falls a bit flat pretty quickly. There is a bite to the finish that covers up the subtle roast and enjoyable finish of the style.

O- I went in to this beer with expectations, sorry I couldn't help it Your other stout with wlp005 was AMAZING but I feel this yeast didn't work for this beer. I assume the yeast is the only difference? Maybe less carbonation too? It's interesting how much a yeast can have an impact on perception of the malt. Thanks for sending this beer. I really enjoy experiencing the differences the yeasts make!

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

jmo88's Spelt Saison

Aroma: Ginger and banana, some earthy phenolics I can't quite put my finger on.

Apperance: Golden and slightly hazy with a nice white head which dissipates quickly.

Mouthfeel: Moderately thin body, highly carbonated and spritzy. Good carbonic bite on the tongue.

Flavor: Complex estery, phenolic up front. Grainy and spicy middle with a dry finish that is reminiscent of tart, underripened strawberries.

Overall: This is a very good beer. This is what the Belgians would call very "digestible". Nice dry finish that is right on to style with a Saison/Farmhouse ale. The Spelt adds an extra dimension that gives this beer a lot of character. It's somewhere in between the malty richness of Munich and the spiciness of Rye and lends a very nice backbone to the esters and phenols coming from the ferment. Very well done!

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

By the way, I am slowly working my way through each of the beers I received in this swap. I'm going to try to get through some more on Sunday and Monday.

 

[KingBrianI]

jmo, what is the beer labeled "BP", I looked back but didn't see it posted in this thread and the damn 5 pm limit means I probably deleted the pm it was in if you sent it there. Thanks!

 

[jmo88]

jmo, what is the beer labeled "BP", I looked back but didn't see it posted in this thread and the damn 5 pm limit means I probably deleted the pm it was in if you sent it there. Thanks!

Brown porter