10.10.10 Recipe Discussion Thread - The HBT Anniversary Series

[Kelsch]

Time to finish revamping my setup so I can partake in this. Never brewed a Belgian, but eager to give it a shot. Carry on the discussion, I'll just sit on the sidelines and wait for finalized plans.

 

[Homercidal]

You could just do a 2.5 gal batch. Or back to back 2.5 gal batches and combine. That might be the way I go with it as my MLT can't go above 12 lbs of grain.

This is true. 2.5 gallons is probably closer to a realistic amount for this kind of beer. But if it turns out fantastic, then I'll be disappointed not have 5 Gs stashed away. And it WILL turn out fantastic, right? :rockin:

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I suggested in Gremlyn's other thread about this that IF you plan on brewing a 5 gal. 'yeast starter' batch then you could just make that batch stronger than normal and collect some of the first runnings seperately. Freeze that wort for use in the HBT Anni brew.

 

[Edcculus]

What about doing it as a semi PM? I've done that in the past for higher gravity beers since I only have a 5 gallon MLT. I use about 12lbs of malt, then replace what can't fit with DME. In this case, it would be extra light pilsner extract.

 

[Saccharomyces]

All issues folks faced with the 9-9-9, remember that one was a BW. This brew is even more accommodating.

Disclaimer, I built a new mash tun so I would have enough room for the 9-9-9. I can do 10 gal batches with the same setup now though. I'll be doing 10 gal of this brew but I'll barely have room to spare.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I would imagine some will do decoctions and some won't. Here's my tentative decoction schedule, it'll prob get tweeked a bit (volumes and temps) but this should be close (I'm guessing 39 qt. total water for my system and batch size):

Get 8 qt. water close to a boil.
Dough into 12 qt. @ 104 F to rest @ 102 F just long enough to measure/correct pH.
Pull 8 qt. thick-mash decoction (all grain).
Infuse decoction with 8 qt. @ 212 F water to rest @ 158 F for 5 min., test for conversion.
Boil decoction for 12 min.
Add decoction back to mash (slowly) and add heat (if required) to rest @ 149 F for 60 min., test for conversion.
Pull 8 qt. thin-mash decoction (all liquid) and boil 12 min.
Add decoction to mash out @ 168 F and sparge with 19 qt. @ 172 F.

My water should be something like:
20 qt. Spring water
19 qt. Distilled Water
4g CaCl
3g CaSO4
1g MgSO4

That should yield a Residual Alkalinity of about 0 which should be good enough and a balanced Chloride:Sulphate ratio. I might decrease the Gypsum to 2g.

 

[Brewpastor]

Wow, you guys are going to town here! Well done.

 

[KingBrianI]

Alright, picked up a pack of the flanders golden ale yeast today and will be brewing up A ProMash Recipe - The Jamil Show - Belgian Pale Ale tomorrow to build up some yeast for the 10/10/10. Are you guys aiming for 1.100 before or after the sugar additions?

 

[KingBrianI]

Got my starter on the stir plate for the belgian pale tomorrow. That yeast smelled great when I opened the smack pack!

 

[KingBrianI]

Checked on the starter tonight and what do I find spinning around in there but a couple of damn fruit flies. Sh!t! I'm gonna go ahead and use it for the belgian pale to determine whether it's been compromised. If it seems to be ok then I'll go ahead and use it for the 101010.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Are you guys aiming for 1.100 before or after the sugar additions?

Def after the sugar. By my calculations; for a 5.25 gal. batch and assuming I use 2.5# sugar then I'll need to hit ~1.079 OG just from the grain.

Good news for me. Just this past weekend I brewed a Traditional Bock using 14.5# grain and this looks to be about the limit of my lauter tun. I actually have to wait for it to settle/drain a bit before I can even fit all of the mash in there. But I still got ~82% eff (including everything...the last 2.5 qt. don't go into the fermenter so I only got ~79% into-the-fermenter) so it looks like 14-14.5# should be just right for this brew for my system.

And I caved and ordered a pound of Styrian Goldings...along with a pound of Saphir which I have never even heard of.

Regarding the Belgian Blonde Ale or Belgian Pale Ale or whatever yeast-starter-batch you brew: IMLE you don't want to mash this brew too low...if you do it's likely to be too dry/thin because these yeasts can be fairly good attenuators. I'll likely mash mine quite high for a wort with low fermentability.

 

[mmb]

So, is there a "locked" recipe for the 10-10-10 now? We're getting close to brew date and 9-9-9 sampling time....

Also, we'll need a new thread to organize this swap and someone to keep the savages under control.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

So, is there a "locked" recipe for the 10-10-10 now? We're getting close to brew date and 9-9-9 sampling time....

Also, we'll need a new thread to organize this swap and someone to keep the savages under control.

I'm fine with flyangler's proposed recipe. IMO, the actual ingredients potentially make for a great brew...but it's really all about what we do with those ingredients. I think if anyone has a problem with the proposed recipe they should speak up soon.

TBH, I've only brewed three BGSAs and I haven't even tasted two of them so I don't have enough experience in this area. However, here's my thoughts:

The malt bill looks fine to me...again, imo it's all about what the brewer does with them. I get a leetle skeered of adding too much sugar and 3.5# is past my comfort-zone. But I'll be scaling back everything since I'll get better than 70% eff.

50 IBU seems a little high but I've never made a beer as big as this (see next paragraph regarding sweetness). At first I thought dry-hopping would be out of place (I thought these beers were all about the yeast) but the style guideline does say for aroma: "low to moderate alcohol and hop aromas" and "A low to moderate yet distinctive perfumy, floral hop character is often present."

1.010 seems a little low for the FG. But judging from my first BGSA (the only one I've tasted); the alcohol greatly increases the perception of sweetness so maybe that's why Jason is shooting for 1.010 (and 50 IBUs)...or maybe it's just because of the back-to-back '10' in 1.010. My BGSA#1 was OG = 1.088, FG = 1.012, w/ ~26 IBU and it's a little too sweet with not enough hops. Still pretty good though...doesn't taste as alcoholic as it really is.

 

[mmb]

50 IBU seems a little high but I've never made a beer as big as this (see next paragraph regarding sweetness). At first I thought dry-hopping would be out of place (I thought these beers were all about the yeast) but the style guideline does say for aroma: "low to moderate alcohol and hop aromas" and "A low to moderate yet distinctive perfumy, floral hop character is often present."

I'm not too concerned about the IBU count but rather the IBU/SG ratio. For example, my 999 BW brew was OG 1.114 with a FG of 1.020, 9% of the fermentables from table sugar and 99 IBUs. It's a malt bomb. I could see having the IBUs doubled and still not being hoppy enough.

 

[Saccharomyces]

I'm not too concerned about the IBU count but rather the IBU/SG ratio. For example, my 999 BW brew was OG 1.114 with a FG of 1.020, 9% of the fermentables from table sugar and 99 IBUs. It's a malt bomb. I could see having the IBUs doubled and still not being hoppy enough.

I'm with ya. I may go up to 60 IBUs because I want substantial bitterness to balance out all of that malt but I'll keep the late kettle additions to a minimum so it isn't too hoppy in flavor.

 

[HoppyDaze]

what about using 3711 Saison yeast for this? I just brewed a saison this weekend. I really want to have a big starter, but Im not sure that it will be compatible....I would have gone with the belgian strain if I had remember this 10/10/10 brew

 

[Homercidal]

what about using 3711 Saison yeast for this? I just brewed a saison this weekend. I really want to have a big starter, but Im not sure that it will be compatible....I would have gone with the belgian strain if I had remember this 10/10/10 brew

Good question. I was thinking about brewing a Wit or Saison, and if the Saison would be a good starter beer, then I'll go that route, and pass on the mega brew, and follow up with this BGSA instead. Then maybe do a very small Mega beer in a 1-2 gallon batch.

This is going to be fun!

 

[Gremlyn]

I'm starting to think maybe WLP568 would be interesting to try for this one.

Can we get flyangler to weigh in on the change from 13.5 lbs to 17.5 lbs? That makes this brew go from just about manageable in a full batch to impossible for anything more than 2.5 gal for me My calculations are giving me 1.1 with just the grain, thought we were shooting for that after the sugar addition?

Using BeerCalculus, I get 1.100 on the nose at 70% efficiency with:

13.5# Pils
0.5# Munich
0.5# Wheat
3# Cane Sugar

 

[Homercidal]

Personally, I think we need to post the recipe again, to include any possible changes, and to make sure we are all on the same page on this. I'm also wondering about the grain increase. Is it just to get up to 1.100?

 

[camiller]

In theory I could scale this up to a 8.5 gallon batch with my existing mash tun (assuming the grain bill in post 262 holds and 1.25qt/lb of mash water) If I make the mash 1qt/lb I could manage a 10 gallon batch. I know having a thicker mash often reduces efficiency though. I've never had to resort to a extra thick mash, any thoughts on how it would impact efficiency?

Say flyangler, are you going to post up a full beer tools pro report like your first one in post 148 for the revised grain bill? I think with the changes and discussions about percentages some folks (myself included) are looking for something to point at and know that is the final recipe. It also probably wouldn't hurt to post up a partial mash version for the PMers.

 

[Homercidal]

I'm starting to think maybe WLP568 would be interesting to try for this one.

Can we get flyangler to weigh in on the change from 13.5 lbs to 17.5 lbs? That makes this brew go from just about manageable in a full batch to impossible for anything more than 2.5 gal for me My calculations are giving me 1.1 with just the grain, thought we were shooting for that after the sugar addition?

Using BeerCalculus, I get 1.100 on the nose at 70% efficiency with:

13.5# Pils
0.5# Munich
0.5# Wheat
3# Cane Sugar

I see now the increase in grain is to counter the efficiency expectations to a more realistic level.

 

[Gremlyn]

70% isn't realistic for this? With the above recipe, I can just fit in in my mash tun at 1 qt/lbs. I figured on being a little creative with the mash process and do a partial infusion 1/2 way through the mash (not the first rest), by draining out about 3/4 to 1 gallon and replacing it with fresh H2O. I need to look for more info on what exactly the enzymes are doing though. I don't want to drain out solubilised proteins that needed for the mash during the mash.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

And it also greatly depends on your volume, we should always post the volume when posting these grain bills and intended OG...the volume is as important as the other info. Flyangler's latest posted recipe was at the following volume:

5 gallons finished product in packaging; for my system, it's 8 gallons preboil down to 6 at the end with 5.5 going into the carboy.

camiller - the earlier posted recipe assumed 80% efficiency. With a beer this big, 70% is more realistic.

I've also adjusted attenuation, given the more fermentable wort and sugar feedings.

Since I just brewed a Bock with 14.5# of grain I have a pretty good idea of the efficiency I'll get. My batch size will only be 5.25 gal. into-the-fermenter (fly's was 5.5).

I prefer the % way of sharing recipes. I like when they just give the % of each malt/adjunct and the intended OG and let each brewer figure out exactly how much grain they need based on their system and exact volume.

So it looks like its (rounded off and not including the sugar):
94% Pils
3% Munich
3% Wheat

I decided that 2.5# sugar was the amount I was going to use; so I subtracted the gravity of that 2.5# sugar from 1.100 (in 5.25 gal of course) and that told me what my target OG (just from the grain) should be...which turned out to be about 1.078-1.079. When I brew it that will be my target OG into the fermenter...with the sugar getting added later. But everybody should figure all this stuff out for their system/recipe...it will be different for everybody.

EDIT: and to make it even more simple...I would likely use 1/2# each of Munich/Wheat and then adjust the amount of Pils malt to hit my target OG. I don't see a need to scale the Munich/Wheat just to end up with .57467990129 pounds of each...1/2# is fine (or 10 oz if you're expecting 70% efficiency).

 

[flyangler18]

Here's a completely off-kilter version (and a departure from the original in some ways); do with it as you may.

I'm calling it a Belgian Specialty Ale to deal with the color problem.

For those following along, use the earlier referenced 10 oz wheat and 10 oz Munich; I may do two batches just for S&G.

Due to an oversight, the grainbill has been adjusted. I failed to take the sugar feeding into consideration and the amounts were inflated.

[SIZE=+2]Devil May Cry (10.10.10 Edition)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]16-E Belgian Specialty Ale[/SIZE]
Author: Jason Konopinski
Date: 3/30/09



Size: 6.0 gal
Efficiency: 70%
Attenuation: 90%
Calories: 328.05 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.100 (1.026 - 1.120)
|====================#===========|
Terminal Gravity: 1.010 (0.995 - 1.035)
|=============#==================|
Color: 8.79 (1.0 - 50.0)
|==========#=====================|
Alcohol: 11.92% (2.5% - 14.5%)
|====================#===========|
Bitterness: 51.8 (0.0 - 100.0)
|================#===============|

[SIZE=+1]Ingredients:[/SIZE]
13.5 lb Pilsner Malt
2.5 lb Belgian Munich
2.5 lb White Wheat Malt
3.0 lb White Table Sugar (Sucrose)
1.0 oz Galena (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 90 min
1 oz Goldings (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 30 min
1 oz Goldings (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 0.0 min

[SIZE=+1]Schedule:[/SIZE]
Ambient Air: 70.0 °F
Source Water: 60.0 °F
Elevation: 0.0 m

00:03:00 Dough In - Liquor: 5.89 gal; Strike: 161.97 °F; Target: 149 °F
01:33:00 Saccharification Rest - Rest: 90 min; Final: 147.3 °F
02:03:00 Lautering - First Runnings: 0.0 gal sparge @ 145 °F, 10 min; Sparge #1: 1.87 gal sparge @ 168.0 °F, 10.0 min; Sparge #2: 1.87 gal sparge @ 168.0 °F, 10.0 min; Total Runoff: 7.61 gal

[SIZE=-1]Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.3[/SIZE]

 

[mmb]

70% isn't realistic for this? With the above recipe, I can just fit in in my mash tun at 1 qt/lbs. I figured on being a little creative with the mash process and do a partial infusion 1/2 way through the mash (not the first rest), by draining out about 3/4 to 1 gallon and replacing it with fresh H2O. I need to look for more info on what exactly the enzymes are doing though. I don't want to drain out solubilised proteins that needed for the mash during the mash.

It's pretty standard on these BIG beers to take a 10 point hit on your efficiency percentage. My standard 78% went to 68% on a 1.114 beer, with standard 1.25qts to 1 lb grain.

Of course, I was shooting for 65%....

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

That's quite a bit different from the last version...way more Munich and Wheat. Not that I was set on anything...I'm easy. Whatever we decide will be fine...as I said...it's really not about a simple recipe...it's about what you do with it.

EDIT: Oh, I'm def doing two batches.:rockin:

 

[Gremlyn]

Wow, you really bumped the Munich and Wheat. I'm good with that recipe, I think I can make something work for a full batch. I guess if my creative mashing doesn't work well, there is always DME

Are we purposely leaving the yeast selection up to interpretation?

 

[flyangler18]

That's quite a bit different from the last version...way more Munich and Wheat. Not that I was set on anything...I'm easy. Whatever we decide will be fine...as I said...it's really not about a simple recipe...it's about what you do with it.

Yeah, it's definitely different - I'm in an experimental mood.

Figure out your system to hit the numbers you need, all!

I think I'll do this suped up version (bigger on the wheat and Munich) as well as the 94% Pils/3% Wheat/3% Munich. Just couldn't get the numbers where I wanted them to approximate the percentages. Oh well.

 

[flyangler18]

Are we purposely leaving the yeast selection up to interpretation?

I'm using the Golden Flanders PC release, but I also really like 570 for a beer of this sort.

 

[Saccharomyces]

My Tripel Six had a similar % of Munich, the color is a bit dark for a tripel mostly due to the turbinado I used (I didn't realize how dark that stuff is until it was already too late) but it didn't push it too far out of style. It came out really great, so I don't think your % will be too much at all. <-- referring to post #294

I literally have a pile of flaked wheat so I will use it instead of malted wheat.