1/4 BBL Sanke Fermenter

[Brockness Monster]

What is the current verdict on converting Sanke Kegs to fermenters? I currently have a Fermonster and a Big Mouth Bubbler but would like to go stainless. As much as I would love to get a couple conicals, or even one for that matter, they are outside of my current budget. I can get a couple 1/4 BBL Sankes for a little north of $100 each and convert them for $50-80 each. Just want to make sure Sankes are still pretty great as fermenters. Any advice on Converting them would be greatly appreciated as well.

 

[Broken Crow]

Back when I was looking to get away from glass carboys and do larger batches, I became enamored of NorCals cross-fermenter: https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Sanke-Keg-Cross-Fermenter-Kit.html which is an excellent piece of kit....but I wanted a floating diptube and I'm cheap so I built these:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...-fit-it-to-fermonster-sankey-whatever.704064/
..one for my Fermonster and one for my Sanke though the base unit can attach to any fermenter. It works quite well. You could forgo the ball-valve and blowoff tube and go cheaper with this sanke/floating diptube combo from Bobby: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/sankeball.htm (I'm one of those who doesn't like krausen gunking up my gas posts, hence my DIY unit)
A couple notes: Many of the floats available are a little too large to fit in the mouth of a sanke, but the Flotit fits perfectly and also weighs enough not to get hung up on the ridges in the sanke. Depending on where you buy your sankes from, you could ask for them without spears to save a little extra as you have no use for them anyway. If you can get them, the poly top/bottom modern sankes have straight sides with no ridges hence no place for a floating diptube to get hung on and they're a little lighter and easier to handle. You'll also need a TC gasket thats flat on one side: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc2gksingle.htm or if you have a steady hand, you cut carefully cut the ridge out of one side.
I think that covers it...Let us know what you decide.

 

[Brockness Monster]

I was looking at a similar 2" TC fitting on Kegland, I would much rather buy one from Bobby. I also think the Flotit would be ideal. Krausen shouldn't be a problem as most of the beers I brew benefit (depending on who you ask) from open fermentation. I would plan on cleaning any mess and capping right after high krausen has fallen off. I'm figuring I will also need to build a keg washer so that I don't have to worry about trying to get a carboy brush down in the keg every time (obviously still need to inspect after every cleaning).

Is it better to have a blowoff tube from the gas post to a jar of sanitizer or put a spunding valve set to zero?
How do you figure out how much volume of liquid you have in the keg?

 

[Broken Crow]

Personally I'd go with a bolowoff tube for primary..as to the liquid level I'm only concerned with precision going into my serving kegs; When I fill my fermenters I go by the measurements exiting my kettle and as of yet have no precise idea how much of that will turn into trub in the fermenter, but with my full size sanke I brew to finish with 12 gallons going in and using a scale to fill my kegs, I always get 2 full 5 gallon kegs and some 'leftovers' that inevitably draw a bit of cloudiness and go into a 1.6G baby keg. As to cleaning; My current CIP ball is a bit too large to fit in the sanke mouth (I gotta get a smaller one one of these days) and for now I just shove a small hose with tiny nozzle and spray the heck out if, and then throw one of those mesh bags that lemons and onions come in, filled with stainless steel washers in it and swish it around...kinda labor intensive, but highly effective.....I really need to get me a smaller CIP ball.
Hope this helps.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I prefer a blow off tube not connected to a gas port. Too small in my opinion, it'll get plugged up to easy..

I had a converted half barrel fermenter, an eight inch diameter cut out of the top. A cover fit in the opening with a gasket. It had a barbed fitting for the blow off. I put a bottom valve for draining, mounted slightly up the side above the cone.

 

[Climb]

I ferment in a 1/2 barrel sanke too. After pitching yeast, I replace the original sanke spear and use a sanke D coupler with the check valves removed and add these push-to-connect fittings on the beer out and gas in ports of the coupler. Then things are connected up with EVABarrier tubing. Here's what it looks like during fermentation. The push to connect ball valves are used to allow gas out and/or to do a closed transfer to a purged sixtel. I find used sanke couplers for about $10 to $15 each.

 

[Brockness Monster]

I went ahead and ordered two 1/4 BBL Sanke kegs, the TC conversion caps, and the Flotit dip tubes. All told about $360 for two 7.75g fermenters. I will keep the Spears on hand for reinstalling if I ever decide to resell them (or for zombie bashing). 2.5 gallons of headspace should be enough for most yeast strains to keep from clogging my blowoff port, but I also open ferment with those super vigorous strains so there shouldn't be an issue. Now to figure out what to do with my PET fermenters. I'll try to keep this thread updated on my thoughts and issues with my first couple uses of these fermenters.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I went ahead and ordered two 1/4 BBL Sanke kegs, the TC conversion caps, and the Flotit dip tubes. All told about $360 for two 7.75g fermenters. I will keep the Spears on hand for reinstalling if I ever decide to resell them (or for zombie bashing). 2.5 gallons of headspace should be enough for most yeast strains to keep from clogging my blowoff port, but I also open ferment with those super vigorous strains so there shouldn't be an issue. Now to figure out what to do with my PET fermenters. I'll try to keep this thread updated on my thoughts and issues with my first couple uses of these fermenters.

Sounds like a good investment, two vessels too. As far as selling them at some point, you shouldn't have much trouble. Sanke keg conversations are very popular.

Congratulations!

 

[Indian_villager]

I am loving my 1/4 Slim sanke for fermenting, especially for lagers. I just wish I had a decent thermowell situation, but I am still making great beers with the probe taped to the side with a bit of insulation. I am also using the below linked instead of using the spear in the keg.
Sanke Adapter

 

[Brockness Monster]

I got that same adapter, but I bought it from Bobby. I plan on using my aquarium heater and large plastic tub for a temp controlled water bath, heat only. My basement stays at about 68F in the summer, and drops to close to 40F in the winter so I can do lagers during the winter if I get the itch.

Edit: Now I have to build a keg washer

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I am loving my 1/4 Slim sanke for fermenting, especially for lagers. I just wish I had a decent thermowell situation, but I am still making great beers with the probe taped to the side with a bit of insulation. I am also using the below linked instead of using the spear in the keg.
Sanke Adapter

Have you thought about one of those weld-less fittings? Ideally having someone weld a fitting in would be the best option. My keg fermenter has a side fitting and another above the cone, both Welsh less and never an issue with leaking.

 

[Indian_villager]

I got that same adapter, but I bought it from Bobby. I plan on using my aquarium heater and large plastic tub for a temp controlled water bath, heat only. My basement stays at about 68F in the summer, and drops to close to 40F in the winter so I can do lagers during the winter if I get the itch.

Edit: Now I have to build a keg washer

Bought mine a while ago before I realized Bobby sold one. Updating the link.

Have you thought about one of those weld-less fittings? Ideally having someone weld a fitting in would be the best option. My keg fermenter has a side fitting and another above the cone, both Welsh less and never an issue with leaking.

Thought of it, got part way through designing a 3d printed tool to help with installation, then I decided it would be too annoying to clean and confirm cleanliness. Wish they made one of those heads with a thermowell.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Bought mine a while ago before I realized Bobby sold one. Updating the link.


Thought of it, got part way through designing a 3d printed tool to help with installation, then I decided it would be too annoying to clean and confirm cleanliness. Wish they made one of those heads with a thermowell.

Know anyone that can weld stainless steel, properly? That's your best option if you don't trust the non welded fittings.

 

[Indian_villager]

Know anyone that can weld stainless steel, properly? That's your best option if you don't trust the non welded fittings.

Norcal seems to have something close to what I want. If I decide my current setup bugs me enough I'll drop them a call.

 

[rallenhall]

I've been fermenting with 1/4 and 1/2 bbl. sankes and a NorCal Cross-T for a few years now. Have been happy with the results and especially like the ability to pressure transfer. Have never had head space issues with 5.5 gal ferments in the 1/4 or 10.5 gal in the 1/2. The Cross-T Out tube is vertically adjustable though I usually just leave it toward the bottom with enough space to clear the yeast/trub. Give yeast some settling time and the wort comes out without too much debris ... no more than regular siphoning used to. I did find the sankes a bit problematic to clean, as inspection is difficult even with a mechanics mirror. After an infected batch I found the culprit to be portions of a caked krausen ring from a previous batch. My cleaning regimen now includes an extended hot PBW wash propelled by a 1/3 hp sump pump. The Mark II washer I used for the carboys just didn't have enough oomph for the sankes.

 

[Brockness Monster]

I've been fermenting with 1/4 and 1/2 bbl. sankes and a NorCal Cross-T for a few years now. Have been happy with the results and especially like the ability to pressure transfer. Have never had head space issues with 5.5 gal ferments in the 1/4 or 10.5 gal in the 1/2. The Cross-T Out tube is vertically adjustable though I usually just leave it toward the bottom with enough space to clear the yeast/trub. Give yeast some settling time and the wort comes out without too much debris ... no more than regular siphoning used to. I did find the sankes a bit problematic to clean, as inspection is difficult even with a mechanics mirror. After an infected batch I found the culprit to be portions of a caked krausen ring from a previous batch. My cleaning regimen now includes an extended hot PBW wash propelled by a 1/3 hp sump pump. The Mark II washer I used for the carboys just didn't have enough oomph for the sankes.

I figured the Mk II wouldn't quite do the job, I have the following items on my amazon list ready to go plus I will need to do a Home Depot run to get some PVC, PVC glue, a bucket and some kind of cutter (hacksaw?).

Pump
Spray Ball

The pump is 1/4 HP, not sure if that is going to be enough.

 

[Broken Crow]

I figured the Mk II wouldn't quite do the job, I have the following items on my amazon list ready to go plus I will need to do a Home Depot run to get some PVC, PVC glue, a bucket and some kind of cutter (hacksaw?).

Pump
Spray Ball

The pump is 1/4 HP, not sure if that is going to be enough.

Check the temperature rating, but don't worry too much if it seems a bit lower than ideal...just adjust your expectations on pump life. Here's a recent thread that might be helpful to your thoughts on what to buy:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/i-cant-rotate-cip-ball.736526/#post-10465188
Just make sure the spray ball is small enough to fit in the sanke neck and that inner rim the spear sits on. ..on a side note: the smaller the ball, the lower the required pressure to use it...35psi seems to be a good pressure to get the job done effectively without too expensive a pump.

 

[Broken Crow]

I am loving my 1/4 Slim sanke for fermenting, especially for lagers. I just wish I had a decent thermowell situation, but I am still making great beers with the probe taped to the side with a bit of insulation. I am also using the below linked instead of using the spear in the keg.
Sanke Adapter

Have you thought about one of those weld-less fittings? Ideally having someone weld a fitting in would be the best option. My keg fermenter has a side fitting and another above the cone, both Welsh less and never an issue with leaking.

I'm gonna tag @Bobby_M here in case there's interest in doing an experiment...
Most producers keep costs down by using readily available components and given the truly massive availability of ball lock posts with 1/4" NPT fittings, I'm gonna guess that this sanke adapter https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/sankeball.htm uses them and if the PRV is also 1/4" NPT fitting, you could probably swap the liquid ball-lock post to the PRV position and install a thermowell in the center...if you can't find one with a 1/4"NPT thread, you could use a 1/2" one on an adapter..maybe these:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/couplingreducing12x14.htm
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/couplingreducing12x14.htm
...of course that's if they are actually interchangable 1/4" NPT fittings...Is anyone who has one up to trying it and sharing the knowledge?
..just a thought.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I'm gonna tag @Bobby_M here in case there's interest in doing an experiment...
Most producers keep costs down by using readily available components and given the truly massive availability of ball lock posts with 1/4" NPT fittings, I'm gonna guess that this sanke adapter https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/sankeball.htm uses them and if the PRV is also 1/4" NPT fitting, you could probably swap the liquid ball-lock post to the PRV position and install a thermowell in the center...if you can't find one with a 1/4"NPT thread, you could use a 1/2" one on an adapter..maybe these:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/couplingreducing12x14.htm
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/couplingreducing12x14.htm
...of course that's if they are actually interchangable 1/4" NPT fittings...Is anyone who has one up to trying it and sharing the knowledge?
..just a thought.

I agree with the swap, should be an easy thing to accomplish, but Bobby is selling that item and will be able to say for sure. He might be able to modify it to for a fee. A modification would make it perfect. I think even a modified flat TC would work. Again, Bobby is the guy to chime in.

 

[Brockness Monster]

Got my Sanke kegs in yesterday, removed spears and currently have them soaking in PBW since last night. I am finding it difficult to get the TC conversion kit clamped on. I have to unscrew the "wingnut", push the threaded portion through the fork of the clamp, and hope I can get the "wingnut" to catch the threads. Should I be having this much trouble getting the clamp on? I am trying it with the silicon gasket I ordered instead of the red rubber gasket that Bobby sent with the kits, so maybe that is the problem? or do I need to do some modifications?

 

[Brockness Monster]

Tried the red rubber gaskets last night and I was having the same issues. I did notice that there seems to be a pinch point near the hinge of both clamps. I might try to file those down a bit.

 

[Brockness Monster]

Put my first batch into one of these on Friday. I felt less anxiety while transferring cool wort into the vessel. I assume that's because the mouth is smaller than my Fermonster and they are opaque so no sunlight is shining through the sides while I'm brewing outside. The extra weight of the metal is offset by having sturdy carrying handles. The difficulty getting the clamp on the fitting is already starting to get easier. I decided not to do an open ferment on this first one just to get my processes down first. I do wish I could see the ferment going, because I like to watch the chaos roiling inside. All in all, very happy with my first experience.