1.090 Wheat OG?!?!?

[edwaka01]

What the hell happened here doods?

I just brewed a batch with a somewhat improvised extract recipe, and my OG was 1.090.

I used:
3 pounds wheat malt extract
3 pounds light dry malt extract
1 oz hallertau at the start of the boil
1 oz tettnang 10 mins from the end
2 oz coriander 10 mins from the end
1 tsp irish moss 15 mins from the end

This is for a 5 gallon batch. Right now theres about 4.75 gallons of fermenting wort total, my plan was to wait till the initial fermentation slowed then to add the rest of the water with a pound of honey. The fact that the OG is so high is making me wary of using any more fermentables, but I really want the honey.

I brewed this last night and pitched yeast around midnight. It's 8:45am the next morning and already the airlock is ripping.

Why is my OG so high? I know the sample wasn't at 60 degrees, but it wasn't super warm either. Could hop particles change the gravity reading? There was a lot of hops in the test vial.

 

[kosmokramer]

Did you do a full boil. If you top off it is nearly impossible to get an accurate reading

 

[cperry7467]

Yea the only way I see this as even possible is if you measured your OG before you added your top up water to make 5 gallons. If you started with a pre boil volume of 3 gallons your pre boil gravity would be around 1.08. Then if you boiled for 60 minutes you'd lose maybe .5 gallon of water which would put you above 1.09. But then when you top up with water to 5 gallons it would dilute it to 1.05, which would be spot on.

 

[edwaka01]

I trust both of you good folks, but would you mind explaining this a bit? All instructions ive seen say to measure OG after topping off, and if the gravity is just a measure of the sugar/water mix, why would adding water affect the accuracy? If anything I would think it would LOWER the reading.

 

[JeepDiver]

It is hard to get a good mix, unless you really stir for a while. you probalby got a sample with mostly extract from the boil, and very little water.

 

[cperry7467]

Yes, you want to measure after you top off. After you boil, before you've topped off the sugar is more concentrated in the wort. When you add just plain water that dilutes it and you get less of a concentration of sugar. If you had pure water your hydrometer would read 1.000. The more sugar you add to that water, the higher your gravity will be.

 

[edwaka01]

Damnit. Completely conflicting replies. Let me refferee.

So ideally, measure after top off so that you are measuring the fully diluted wort

BUT

It's really hard to get an even mixture so it may not read accurate.

How'd I do?

 

[cperry7467]

I never have problems getting an even reading. After your wort is cool and you put it in the fermenter with your top off water, you need to stir it to add oxygen for the yeast which tends to do a pretty good job of mixing it evenly. It's never going to be a perfect reading but if you've mixed properly you're not going to get 1.09 on a beer that's actually 1.05. You may get something like 1.052 or 1.048 but that's close enough.

 

[edwaka01]

Well then that doesn't help me. Most of my top-off water was added before the wort, and I stirred it really well. I don't think there is any chance it's not properly mixed.

 

[BigRob]

If you do partial boils and top-off with water, you will likely never get an accurate hydrometer reading, it's very difficult to achieve a homogeneous mixture of the wort and top-off water.

Also, it's impossible that 6# of extract gave you 5g of 1.09 wort, so either your hydrometer is way out, or the sample you took wasn't mixed properly, or your volumes are off.

 

[xjmox14x]

Well then that doesn't help me. Most of my top-off water was added before the wort, and I stirred it really well. I don't think there is any chance it's not properly mixed.

Stirring it, regardless of how much you think you mixed it up, will not mix the two liquids together properly enough to get an accurate reading. You should be in the 1.050 range for a 5 gallon batch with those two extracts.

So, one of three things happened:

1) You didn't properly mix your wort before taking a gravity reading.
2) You misjudged your volume and have a more concentrated wort.
3) You misread your hydrometer or it is not calibrated properly.
4) You've managed to defy the laws of physics and chemistry.

Bottom line is 6 pounds of dry extract in a 5 gallon bucket of water cannot and will not give you 1.090. Period.

 

[midfielder5]

You can punch in the numbers in any online calculator and get your OG.
With extract brews, the maker of the extract has *already* extracted all the sugars from the grain. You are just adding water (and hops).
I wouldn't worry about it personally. ymmv.

 

[amandabab]

wort and top off water are not two different liquids.
its a sugar solution and more of the same liquid suspending the sugar. No problem getting them mixed and no problem getting an accurate reading .

something other than top off water is making that reading so high.
bubbles sticking on the hydrometer
miscalculation on the volume
out of spec hydrometer
just misreading it

 

[kh54s10]

wort and top off water are not two different liquids.
its a sugar solution and more of the same liquid suspending the sugar. No problem getting them mixed and no problem getting an accurate reading .

something other than top off water is making that reading so high.
bubbles sticking on the hydrometer
miscalculation on the volume
out of spec hydrometer
just misreading it

This ISN'T commonly accepted as true. I have had readings from the same wort taken at different times before pitching the yeast. They were different and both were not what the kit called for.

However with a reading that could not possibly be achieved from the ingredients there is probably more going on than a bad mix. More like no mix at all.

 

[ACbrewer]

wort and top off water are not two different liquids.
its a sugar solution and more of the same liquid suspending the sugar. No problem getting them mixed and no problem getting an accurate reading .

something other than top off water is making that reading so high.
bubbles sticking on the hydrometer
miscalculation on the volume
out of spec hydrometer
just misreading it

I disagree, I've had a mixing failure and had a 1.070 from 5 gall batch that should have been closer to 1.045. Pulled the sample out of the spiket - from the bottom - If I'd thought to pull from the top, I'm sure it would have been like 1.030. A good mix/stir will solve the poor mix problem, but that is most likely the issue.

OP, what happens is when you put in the top off water, with out a mixing well, the sugar rich wort sinks to the bottom and sugar poor floats on top - ever floated Guiness on Bass? same idea, only larger glass. Over time if left to sit it will mix (days? weeks?), if yeast is pitched, it will mix faster, if you stir it will mix fastest.

Take a sample and test it again - yeah I know, you pitched the yeast - test again anyhow. Also you can taste it for the feel of the alcohol.

 

[xjmox14x]

wort and top off water are not two different liquids.
its a sugar solution and more of the same liquid suspending the sugar. No problem getting them mixed and no problem getting an accurate reading .

According to countless firsthand experiences on this board, that is entirely incorrect.

I should have used the word "separate" as opposed to "different" when describing the two liquids.

 

[Revvy]

Attention new brewers, yes your original gravity reading is wrong. Don't panic.

 

[edwaka01]

If you do partial boils and top-off with water, you will likely never get an accurate hydrometer reading, it's very difficult to achieve a homogeneous mixture of the wort and top-off water.

Also, it's impossible that 6# of extract gave you 5g of 1.09 wort, so either your hydrometer is way out, or the sample you took wasn't mixed properly, or your volumes are off.

Thanks.

I know my numbers are right.

In conclusion: It is really hard to mix up the top-off and wort. I mixed that junk up vigirously for about ten minutes.

 

[edwaka01]

So given that my wort wasn't mixed with the top-off properly, I got a bad hydro reading. What should my gravity have been? 3 lbs light DME, 3 lbs Dried Wheat Extract. 4.75 gallons water.

Today I added the last .25 gallons with 1 lb of honey. How does this affect my gravity situation?

 

[ACbrewer]

for 6# of DME I get an og about 1.053 in 4.75 gallons. Add 1lb of honey, and .25 gallon of volume I get and adjusted og of 1.057.

So adjusted OG of 1.057

Finish OG however will be about 1.010-1.012 - the extra from honey will ferment out completely.

 

[edwaka01]

Thanks a lot. Is this from experience or are there equations I can find to do this math myself?

Also, that would produce a beer right around 6% right?

 

[angle228]

Did you do a full boil. If you top off it is nearly impossible to get an accurate reading

What if you topped off BEFORE cooling the wort? A) it would help cool the wort faster B) you would have an easier time getting a good mix of wort and added water since sugars in general are more soluble at higher temps and you would have to wait for it to cool properly before talking a reading.

Would this have any impact on the flavor? The chemist in me says no but I have been wrong before. Can anyone comment on this?

Everybody loves beer :cross::rockin:

 

[xjmox14x]

What if you topped off BEFORE cooling the wort? A) it would help cool the wort faster B) you would have an easier time getting a good mix of wort and added water since sugars in general are more soluble at higher temps and you would have to wait for it to cool properly before talking a reading.

Would this have any impact on the flavor? The chemist in me says no but I have been wrong before. Can anyone comment on this?

Everybody loves beer :cross::rockin:

Lot's of people do this. When I was still doing extract I would put 2 gallon water jugs in the freezer to bring their temp down to the low 30's, but still liquid. Topping off with this helps A LOT to bring down that temperature quickly if you don't have an immersion chiller.

 

[ACbrewer]

What if you topped off BEFORE cooling the wort? A) it would help cool the wort faster B) you would have an easier time getting a good mix of wort and added water since sugars in general are more soluble at higher temps and you would have to wait for it to cool properly before talking a reading.

Would this have any impact on the flavor? The chemist in me says no but I have been wrong before. Can anyone comment on this?

Everybody loves beer :cross::rockin:

Again, the problem here is one of mixing, Most people pour the top off well on top. If you pour the water in first (to the fermentor) then the wort, it often mixes better - not totally sure why.

Personally I my tap water on 'spray' rather than 'normal' (faucet head has 2 options, one looks like the shower spray, other looks like an areated sink faucet). and I top off, and I stir while doing it.

Another option would be to sanatize 2 fermentors and combine wort+topoff in one and the pour to the other. Someone posted on HBT a picture where the bottling bucket spicket is opened up to the 2nd fermetor this way getting mixing and aeration. - this becomes a 'what works for you' thing btw.

Flavor wise it doesn't really matter I think, although someone woudl have to do a side by side comparison.

 

[ACbrewer]

Thanks a lot. Is this from experience or are there equations I can find to do this math myself?

Also, that would produce a beer right around 6% right?

I think about 6% that I always have to google ABV calculator for.

As to the OG math, some experience and some equations. The basics are that you can look up gravity points per pound I think HBT has a wiki page on it also, those are the numbers I have memorized. Basically Sugar(table, brown and corn)=45, DME=42, LME=37 and Honey =35.

which tells you how many points of gravity you would get from 1 pound of fermentable in 1 gallon of wort (this is 1 gallon of wort, not ADDed to 1 gallon of water, the fermentable takes up some of the volume so it is often like 7/8ths water and 1/8th fermentable).

Anyhow you take the number of # of fermentable (each type) and then multiply by the pppg to get a total sugar.

so if you have 1# of DME and 3# of LME and 1# of honey and 1# of sugar

So 42(dme) +111(lme) +35(honey)+45(sugar) =233 points. Assume you have 5 gallons of wort so that is then 233 points total/5 gallons or 46 points. thus 1.046

if you add more stuff later, you can do this all over again. Programs like Beersmith do this for you. There is a sourceforge (free) program that also does this, the name eludes me right now. And I like doing this math, keeps my arithmatic and basic algebra sharp.

When figuring FG, you work off the dme+lme and ignore the sugar and honey, then figure the attenuation off just the malts (this case 153/5=31*25%=8) so the FG here should be about 1.008. there might be a bit of adjustment even from there, if you had some malts that added OG but not fermentable (carpils) or such then that would leave a higher FG with higher OG also.

(most yeast has an attenuation of 75%, so with straight nothing added, you take the OG *25% for FG)