1.070 FINAL gravity!?! Couldn't be.

[Dave the Brewer]

That is a HUGE beer. You would need a big starter and definitely O2 aeration.

I also was thinking you would really need some O2 in the wort to allow the yeast to do their thing.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Wouldn't adding a shot of vodka to a stout be a little easier?

Not the same damn thing, no, not at all.

Kaj, also add some yeast nutrient.

If the starter is well oxygenated he shouldn't need to oxygenate the wort though, arguably if the yeast are in a aerobic stage (first 24hrs post pitch) then the wort shouldn't get oxidized by oxygenating it. So..

 

[kaj030201]

Leave in Primary. Rouse the yeast cake. Maybe even pitch another starter of the high grav yeast and/or several packs of 1118 champagne yeast.

DO NOT move to secondary as that will remove it from the yeast cake.

It can take 6 weeks of primary on beers half that size to fully ferment out and usually requires multiple yeast rousings.

Also at this point you may want to raise the temp up a degree or two. Make sure you carboy isn't on a clod floor. That could cause stalling.

i have never used champagne yeast- will it alter the flavor of the beer much? Funny, but the beer is turning out top taste a lot like grapes anyways (maybe due to the Nelson Sauvin hope). I wonder if the champagne yeast would accentuate that MORE?

 

[david_42]

Champagne yeast adds no flavor whatsoever to the beer. I use it to dry out barleywine, but it is a slow working yeast.

 

[dismantle360]

I just cant believe the original gravity of that beer.

WOW

 

[cheezydemon]

Bottom line is, you didn't really follow the directions at all. Sorry!

I would dilute it up to a 4 gallon batch and add DME in concentrated 1/2 gallon batches over the next couple of days.

 

[kaj030201]

Unless you're kegging, you're going to be looking at this beer as being drunk flat (like a Utopias).

you bring up a good point- how does a beer like dogfish's 120 minute or worldwide stout get any carbonation at all? can you force carb in a keg then bottle?

 

[landhoney]

you bring up a good point- how does a beer like dogfish's 120 minute or worldwide stout get any carbonation at all? can you force carb in a keg then bottle?

You can force carb and bottle, but ideally the yeast are still alive/healthy enough to eat that final bit of sugar at bottling and carb it. If those(WWS&120) beers are bottle carbed, I believe so, the beer/yeast wasn't 'stuck'. The yeast fermented all the fermentable sugar and then were able to do the bottle carbing normally.

 

[kaj030201]

You can force carb and bottle, but ideally the yeast are still alive/healthy enough to eat that final bit of sugar at bottling and carb it. If those(WWS&120) beers are bottle carbed, I believe so, the beer/yeast wasn't 'stuck'. The yeast fermented all the fermentable sugar and then were able to do the bottle carbing normally.

so pitching fresh yeast (like wlp099) at bottling would work the same way, right?

 

[landhoney]

so pitching fresh yeast (like wlp099) at bottling would work the same way, right?

I can't say for sure, I think when the ABV gets up there it might be too 'shocking' for the yeast and it may or may not work. From my understanding though, adding them straight from the tube is almost assured not to work, maybe adding from a starter when the yeast are in consumption 'mode'.

 

[Evan!]

I can't say for sure, I think when the ABV gets up there it might be too 'shocking' for the yeast and it may or may not work. From my understanding though, adding them straight from the tube is almost assured not to work, maybe adding from a starter when the yeast are in consumption 'mode'.

Even then...I highly doubt it. HIGHLY. I wouldn't worry about trying to bottle carb a beer like this. Even my 15% Mephistopheles never really carbonated much. Once those babies poop out on you, it's extremely difficult to get them started back up. The other thing to realize is that with an FG that high, you're probably not just looking at all unfermentable sugar---you're also probably getting a proportion of it as fermentable sugar that the yeast is just too stressed to finish---as such, if you were to introduce more sugar for priming, and very healthy new yeast that have been chugging on a starter, you might actually get it to ferment some of those leftover fermentable sugars in addition to the priming sugar, and get gushers or bottle bombs. I just find that in these extreme conditions, it's very hard to regulate yeast activity. I guess you could "test" it by adding a very active 099 starter to the fermenter and get it relatively warm---if you don't see any activity, then bottle it with priming sugar. If you do see activity, wait until it trickles off before you bottle it.

 

[landhoney]

Even then...I highly doubt it. HIGHLY. I wouldn't worry about trying to bottle carb a beer like this. Even my 15% Mephistopheles never really carbonated much. Once those babies poop out on you, it's extremely difficult to get them started back up. The other thing to realize is that with an FG that high, you're probably not just looking at all unfermentable sugar---you're also probably getting a proportion of it as fermentable sugar that the yeast is just too stressed to finish---as such, if you were to introduce more sugar for priming, and very healthy new yeast that have been chugging on a starter, you might actually get it to ferment some of those leftover fermentable sugars in addition to the priming sugar, and get gushers or bottle bombs. I just find that in these extreme conditions, it's very hard to regulate yeast activity. I guess you could "test" it by adding a very active 099 starter to the fermenter and get it relatively warm---if you don't see any activity, then bottle it with priming sugar. If you do see activity, wait until it trickles off before you bottle it.

Maybe this should be your new avatar Evan!:

At least I was trying to be positive.
Seriously though, I agree 100%, expect for the not bottle conditioning. My 20%'ers at least make a pfssst when you crack them, no carb though. Had I lowered the ABV 1% I'm confident those babies would be carbed now. But I pushed the beer a bit too far, for my skills and techniques( I don't think WL would say 25% unless it was possible to get darn close to that) so it didn't work. However, a strong case can be made for; "Why worry, just force carb it" I admit it.

 

[Evan!]

irrational optimism that flies in the face of the facts is irresponsible and dangerous

So what'd you make that was 20%? I never heard about it. Where have I been?

I'm not so concerned about carbing though. My meph is aging like fine port, and I expect it to improve for a decade.

 

[landhoney]

irrational optimism that flies in the face of the facts is irresponsible and dangerous
So what'd you make that was 20%? I never heard about it. Where have I been?
I'm not so concerned about carbing though. My meph is aging like fine port, and I expect it to improve for a decade.

I want mine to age long/well too, but I find mine just strikes me as odd without any carbonation. It has some winelike characteristics, but its not wine, and to me it would be better with a little carbonation.
BTW, https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=41193, before that I posted my procedures/etc. in Pumbaa's(I think it was his, can't find it) "you guys are going to get me in trouble" something thread where he was planning on brewing a big beer. All those comments I made in your meph thread about wlp099 bubbling strangely were things I noticed in my big beer. Mine is basically a recipe extrapolated from the grain bill SA lists for Utopia, aged with oak and the various spirits(port,cognac,bourbon,chard).

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Why would he need the sugar?

 

[Deofol]

Why would he need the sugar?

Insanity needs no reasons.

/just saying

 

[blacklab]

I think everyone needs to cool off with a nice, relaxing facedance.

 

[kaj030201]

Couldn’t he rouse the yeast a couple times by adding simple syrup of 1 pound corn sugar boiled and cooled with 2 cups of water? Pour it in the primary and give it a gentle stir. That will wake the yeast up and should drop the FG. If you still think there are fermentables in there Pasteur Champagne yeast should take those down.

I spoke with the head brewer at Weyerbacher and he told me to do the same thing. I think I will go with that advice.

 

[Deofol]

I’m not sure what this response means. I was just relaying information I received from an accomplished brewer. Was this a productive response to something I said? Was I way out of line on something? Did you have something to add to the conversation other than thinking I’m insane?

No, sorry. Failed attempt at sarcasm. The irony of the situation I supose.

 

[kaj030201]

OK, so I added some champagne yeast and corn sugar, and took a gravity reading a week later. FG is down to 1.058. Still seems very high. What is the highest FG you have finished with?

 

[Bosh]

Damn that's a big beer *drools*
That might be as high as you're going to get, must be hard getting north of 70% attentuation on a beer that big.

 

[discgolfin]

I had a 1.12 RIS that went down to 1.024 but I pitched on top of a yeast cake so it took off like a champ, but man this thing is big..I would keg... age for a bit to carb and than bottle and drink in say 4 years?

Jay

 

[kaj030201]

Damn that's a big beer *drools*
That might be as high as you're going to get, must be hard getting north of 70% attentuation on a beer that big.

i'm no math whiz, and certainly not a homebrew expert, but I would say the attenuation was more like 62% or so. thats why i just added some beano, to break up some of the unfermentables. the champagne yeast has been in for about 8 days- should i transfer off of the 2 month old yeast cake yet?