06.06.06 We should start planning now....

[Dude]

I've never seen Phoenix hops for sale anywhere. Got a source?

I'm liking the grain bill, though. Brown sugar might be interesting.

I think the yeast is going to be the sticking point in this recipe.

Phoenix Hops:

hopsdirect
midwestsupplies

They seem awfully pricey--but it might be worth it (especially if we use the name I suggested) , but we can easily sub in a similar hop. I usually ahve trouble with configuring hops--so please guys, add suggestions.

 

[SwAMi75]

That yeast (007) attenuates 75-80%. This stuff will be pretty hot. I'm tempted to suggest going with something a little less powerful.

One problem with the WLP320 I suggested is that it doesn't flocculate well. We don't want this beer to be cloudy. (Although my honey wheat came out nice and clear)

Maybe an alt yeast? I think we'll have plenty of hoppiness, so that an alt yeast will balance it out nicely. I've never used one myself, though. A scottish ale yeast might be nice, too.

Just throwing out ideas....I'm eager to hear others' suggestions!

 

[Dude]

That yeast (007) attenuates 75-80%. This stuff will be pretty hot. I'm tempted to suggest going with something a little less powerful.

One problem with the WLP320 I suggested is that it doesn't flocculate well. We don't want this beer to be cloudy. (Although my honey wheat came out nice and clear)

Maybe an alt yeast? I think we'll have plenty of hoppiness, so that an alt yeast will balance it out nicely. I've never used one myself, though. A scottish ale yeast might be nice, too.

Just throwing out ideas....I'm eager to hear others' suggestions!

I'm wondering about yeast too. I'm half tempted to try an experiment that is mentioned on Stone's website regarduing one of the Vertical Epic recipes....splitting the batch and fermenting half with Stone's house yeast (have no idea what an equivalent for that is), and a trappist strain, then mixing them together after primary. Finished product = some phenols going and then a cleaner strain along with it. It might be a PITA, but it might be REALLY kick-ass too.

Need more input....

 

[Tony]

...but we can easily sub in a similar hop. I usually ahve trouble with configuring hops--so please guys, add suggestions.

Northern Brewer?

 

[Pumbaa]

I like the idea of the scottish and red, but think maybe 6 ounces of smoked malt would be good? and to add to the 666 idea bump the Og up to about 1.080 and make that bad boy like a 220/. Play with the old saying "ez'er for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle then it is to get into heaven, 220/ is plenty rich may as well enjoy it in hell.

carbonate it at maybe 2.5 volumes to help bring some of the hops out if it more?

and I like the idea of the oak chips

maybe WLP028 or Wyeast 1728 instead of the english dry

IBU's are way to high for me, I'd probably want to stay more down to 35 thats the high end of the heavy scottish style

Name? Beelzebub Brew

 

[Tony]

Lots of good suggestions so far!

I like the suggestions of it being a red, and using WLP028 yeast. I added .50 German Smoke Malt, and changed the 30 & 15 minute additions to Northern Brewer. Challenger could be used as well. Ive never used Phoenix, so Im not sure what to expect from them.

After adding the Smoke and Northern Brewer, I came up with:

Original Gravity 1.079
Terminal Gravity 1.015
Color 22.49 °SRM
Bitterness 61.0 IBU
Alcohol (%volume) 8.4 %

Pumbaa wanted lower IBU's, but liked the oak chips idea. Sam said to use an Alt style yeast, and WLP007 definately wouldnt fit, but WLP028 would be okay.

How about getting some parameters set on the recipe...

Original Gravity
IBU's
Color
AV

Also, a consensus on the grain.

Base Malt:
Specialty Malt:
Adjuncts:


How about everyone posting their thoughts on the above? I'll go first...

Original Gravity - 1.060 to 1.075
IBU's - 35 to 55
Color - 20 to 27
AV - 7.5% to 8.5%

Base Malt:
2 Row

Specialty Malt: Rye
Munich
Wheat
Crystal
Special B
Smoke
Adjuncts: Flaked Rye
Brown sugar

 

[justbrewit]

i just saw this post but i'm thinking something like a barley wine maybe. but that also could be because i just got a nice book on barley wines and its got me all jittery for a barley wine!!!! i think it needs to have a big hop flavor and aroma. i've never used rye before so i don't know what it imparts on the brew.

<<<-----------see my new membership?? hehe

 

[Darth Konvel]

Wow, looks like I'm a bit late to the party

I'll have to look over some stuff before I can make more suggestions, but it looks good so far. Ill give a nod to keeping the hops under control. For something that is going to have as many flavors flying around, we're going to have to be careful to keep this thing balanced out. That said, it's going to need some decent bitterness to keep it from becoming a train wreak, so somewhere in the upper 40's sounds right.

I've been looking for an excuse to work some black pepper into a recipe. Sound good to anyone else?

 

[Pumbaa]

Original Gravity - 1.080 to 1.095
IBU's - 35 to 40
Color - 12 to 14 (much darker and your into brown country)
AV - around 10%

Not doing all grains yet so cant really be a huge help with the base malts and stuff but would thinkmaybe some

• roasted barely
• peat malt or self smoked malt (oak chips for smoking)
• darker crystal malt (25L and up)
• carapils (just something I always seem to use)
• flaked rye (was mentioned above and why the h3ll not )
• honey vs brown sugar to bump up the ABV and not have a 20lbs grain bill
• more oak chips, I just like the idea

The Wee heavy I made I used 3lbs of honey and it turned out REAL nice after ageing. I havent used any other sugars other then honey and malt so I'll admit I am ignorant about them

I use wheat malt to prime also, dunno if it really adds anything other then protiens for head retention

I'm at work right now so cant use promash for amounts will TRY to do it tomarrow AFTER I get that damn blueberry wheat bottled

 

[Tony]

Color - 12 to 14 (much darker and your into brown country)
AV - around 10%

You're right on that Pumbaa, good catch. I think the Special B would take us into the brown range, and using Crystal 120L would give it the red color we want.

Also using either light or dark brown sugar will give it too dark a color, so honey or another neutral color sugar would keep it in the right color range.

What else?

 

[david_42]

Stiffy: This was created by my late friend Michael Winger and named by his GF (DIIKW) His intent was "a bastard child of a Wee Heavy and a Left Coast IPA"

You seem to be converging on something similar.

10 lbs American Pale
2 lbs Biscuit
1 lbs Aromatic
2.5 lbs Rye flakes
1 lb L40
8 oz. Special B
4 oz. Roasted Barley

90 minutes @ 154F

2 oz. Columbus 60
1 oz. Nugget 45
1 oz. Fuggles 15
0.5 oz. Cascade 5

1728 Scottish Ale Yeast or a Trappist Ale Yeast

The finished volume is: 5 gallons
The original gravity is: 1.087
The alcohol is: 8.7% v/v (6.8% w/w)
The color is: 78 HCU (~30 SRM)
The bitterness is: 127 IBU

 

[kc8flq]

If you don't want it cloudy from protien, do a rest at 122 for 30 mins first.

 

[kc8flq]

Has anyone checked out WLP0028? Lets the hop character come thru nice

 

[Tony]

Has anyone checked out WLP0028? Lets the hop character come thru nice

You are number three on the list to suggest it. Cool!

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

DeRoux..telll me more about this melanoidin malt--can it be steeped for the extract brewers?

Negatory...it must be mashed with some diastatic malt. But it will give a nice reddish color (SRM ~30) and the same flavors as if a decoction mash were executed.

It won't fly if the lowest common dominator is steeping.

I generally try to limit the grains to 4-5 so the flavors don't get to muddled, but I'll take a shot at whatever the concensus is.

 

[SwAMi75]

So, have we narrowed it down to WLP026 or WLP036?

036 is kinda compelling, because it's only available in May and June.

For the extract brewers, don't you think that if the grain bill included a little 2-row, they could steep damn near anything they wanted? At 160, they should be able to get all the conversion they need at about 20 min.

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

For the extract brewers, don't you think that if the grain bill included a little 2-row, they could steep damn near anything they wanted? At 160, they should be able to get all the conversion they need at about 20 min.

I think so...but then it would technically be partial mash. OTOH, conversion to the dark side would be nearly assured.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

Negatory...it must be mashed with some diastatic malt. But it will give a nice reddish color (SRM ~30) and the same flavors as if a decoction mash were executed.

It won't fly if the lowest common dominator is steeping.

I generally try to limit the grains to 4-5 so the flavors don't get to muddled, but I'll take a shot at whatever the concensus is.

thanks BeeGee....been tied up today!

 

[Dude]

How about everyone posting their thoughts on the above? I'll go first...

Original Gravity - 1.060 to 1.075
IBU's - 35 to 55
Color - 20 to 27
AV - 7.5% to 8.5%

Base Malt:
2 Row

Specialty Malt: Rye
Munich
Wheat
Crystal
Special B
Smoke
Adjuncts: Flaked Rye
Brown sugar

Mine:

OG: 1.075-1.080
IBUs: 65-75
Color: whatever = RED

Base Malt: 50% 2 row, 50% Rye

Adjuncts:
Munich
Special B
Crystal 90-150L
Brown sugar
Smoked Bamberg (must use enough or it will get lost)

I am very much on the same page as you guys.

We need to nail down the color.

I am also game to use WLP028, sounds really good.

Edinburgh Ale
(WLP028)

Scotland is famous for its malty, strong ales. This yeast can reproduce complex, flavorful Scottish style ales. This yeast can be an everyday strain, similar to WLP001. Hop character is not muted with this strain, as it is with WLP002.

 

[Dude]

You're right on that Pumbaa, good catch. I think the Special B would take us into the brown range, and using Crystal 120L would give it the red color we want.

Also using either light or dark brown sugar will give it too dark a color, so honey or another neutral color sugar would keep it in the right color range.

What else?

I think some special B is key for a depth of flavor. It'll give us a raisiny hint that will work great. I think too much dark crystal like that will affect the color more.

I'm formulating an updated recipe now with all the inputs...

 

[SwAMi75]

I'm liking the original recipe thus far, with the Edinburgh yeast. The ProMash website seems to be down right now, so I can't (re) download it. Thus, I can't mess with the recipe myself.

 

[Dude]

Is this getting close?

I took out the caramel wheat, it will be hard to find for all of us who plan on brewing it for a test, and it also darkened up the recipe. Flaked wheat was the replacement.

Hops--I think this recipe needs to carry some IBUs. I took out the 15 min adition of NB, just to get the IBUs down a bit--but my personal opinion is it is going to need it, but we'll keep it this way cause it seems to be the consensus to go lower. I'm compromising a little... You guys think lower yet?

Do we dryhop? And with what? I say yay, can I get a second?

Do I add the melanoidin?

Extract brewers, don't worry, once we get a hardened recipe down, we'll convert it.



06.06.06
A ProMash Recipe Report
Recipe Specifics
----------------
Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 16.50
Anticipated OG: 1.081 Plato: 19.65
Anticipated SRM: 19.3
Anticipated IBU: 64.8
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
36.4 6.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2
15.2 2.50 lbs. Flaked Rye America 1.034 2
15.2 2.50 lbs. Rye Malt America 1.030 4
12.1 2.00 lbs. Munich Malt Germany 1.037 8
6.1 1.00 lbs. Brown Sugar (dark) Generic 1.046 60
6.1 1.00 lbs. Smoked(Bamberg) Germany 1.037 9
3.0 0.50 lbs. Flaked Soft White Wheat America 1.034 2
3.0 0.50 lbs. Crystal 120L America 1.033 120
3.0 0.50 lbs. Special B Malt Belgian 1.030 120
Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 oz. Chinook Whole 13.00 45.7 60 min.
1.00 oz. Northern Brewer Whole 9.00 16.1 30 min.
1.00 oz. Willamette Whole 5.00 2.9 5 min.
Yeast
WLP028

 

[Tony]

Looks good to me. Anyone else?

 

[Rhoobarb]

Just saw this thread this morning. Wow – great idea! I was thinking about posting a similar idea awhile back and never did! Okay, I know I’m late in voting, but here are my thoughts:

I’ll voice my opinion for sticking with the WLP007. I really love this yeast and have used it in two red ales I've brewed. It is highly flocculent; so you get a nice, clean, clear ale. But, I’ll go with whatever majority likes. I really like the idea of smoked grains, but I’d probably smoke my own.

Also, might I suggest, instead of brown sugar, a pound of orange blossom honey? I’ve used orange blossom honey in a couple of brews, including my red ale. It really adds a nice flavor and ups the alcohol content. But it doesn’t give the ale a sweet or ‘honey taste’.

The girlfriend and I did the brewery tour at Flossmoor Station yesterday and really enjoyed their Gandy Dancer Honey Ale and I have always loved their Panama Limited Red – a very hoppy red. Brewmaster Matt Van Wyk told us they use orange blossom honey and rye on the honey ale and typical Northwest hops in the Red – normally a lot of Centennial and Chinook.

So, how about orange blossom honey, rye and Centennial and/or Chinook?

 

[Walker]

We got a name for this thing yet?

I saw "Apoc-Ale-Ypse" suggested. Not too bad.

How about "Armageddon Ale"... as in "Armegeddon me another one from the fridge... you want one?" Har-dee-har-har.

Or, how about "Legion's Ale"? Representative of both the day as well as the countless hoarde brewing it.

Maybe "Mark of the Beast"?

I've already got a dozen label ideas rolling through my head.

-walker

 

[Rhoobarb]

We got a name for this thing yet?...
How about "Armageddon Ale"... as in "Armegeddon me another one from the fridge... you want one?" ... -walker

I like that one! I also thought of Damien's Antichrist Ale (remember The Omen? "Put the gun down, Damien.")

Oh yeah - I vote for dry-hopping! Maybe with Willamette. (?)

 

[Darth Konvel]

I have yet to use rye, but it sounds like it makes an awesome brew. What are your guys' thoughts on using rice hulls with the amount of rye in the recipe so far? At what point do stuck sparges become an issue?

 

[SwAMi75]

I mulled over using honey instead of brown sugar, too. Any honey beer I've tried had a bit of a floral quality to them. I don't know if that would be appropriate for this beer. Plus, I've never brewed with brown sugar, and think it might be interesting.

I'm also inclined to stick with the Edinburg yeast, for reasons we discussed earlier. I think the 007 might make a beer this big a little too hot.

Just my opinion....I'm willing to go with concensus!

Also, I'm really digging that grain bill. I'm almost inclined to suggest swapping the 30 min addition with .5-.75oz of Chinook (what ever would keep the IBU's about the same). Many people find Chinooks a bit too potent, though.

Also, here's another suggestion: Let's all try to use the same recipe. That is, the same basic ingredients. But I say give leeway to tweak the amounts to one's taste, i.e. hop amounts, base malt, etc. Some might want theirs bigger or milder, more or less bitter, and so on. Agreed?

 

[El Pistolero]

Boy, I wish I could help out here, but so far all I know how to do is follow recipes. However, give the smoke and brimstone and blood red and all that, it seems clear to me that the name of this brew should be "Order of the Drakul Imperial Red Ale", or more simply "Vlad's Imperial Red Ale".

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

My only input is still to condense the grain bill to fewer grains/adjuncts, but whatever comes out of the process I'll take a shot at. I am totally in favor of some type of big, hoppy red (sounds dirty).