06.06.06 We should start planning now....

[Rhoobarb]

My only input is still to condense the grain bill to fewer grains/adjuncts...

I'm inclined to agree here. Plus, that might help when converting to extract-only and/or extract with grains versions of this recipe.

I don't know what I'd cut. Maybe the wheat, since you've got flaked rye already? Just thinking out loud here...

 

[Dude]

Also, here's another suggestion: Let's all try to use the same recipe. That is, the same basic ingredients. But I say give leeway to tweak the amounts to one's taste, i.e. hop amounts, base malt, etc. Some might want theirs bigger or milder, more or less bitter, and so on. Agreed?

I am all for tweaking too--in fact if someone brews it up and thinks they have a real winner--let's revisit the recipe and make the changes. Then we'll try to do another batch and enter it in the NHBC. I think we could probably enter it as a "group" beer. That is down the road though.

One thing I think we are starting to veer away from is the "imperial" aspect of it. Next time a chance like this comes around we will all be long gone. The "6" aspect needs to make this beer a real bugger. A beast. I think with our proposed grain bill we've got something pretty good. I'm going to brew up a batch of this Feb 11th. If you see suggestions, keep bringing them up. I'm trying to take everything into account but six pages is a ton to keep track of everybody's inputs.

 

[Dude]

I'm inclined to agree here. Plus, that might help when converting to extract-only and/or extract with grains versions of this recipe.

I don't know what I'd cut. Maybe the wheat, since you've got flaked rye already? Just thinking out loud here...

I can do that. I wonder if the flaked rye has the same head retention qualities that wheat does. I'm guessing no, but like I said, I'm guessing.

I think the complicated grain bill is a necessity though--wait'll you taste the complexity in this beer. Smoke, raisin, sour, flowery (from the hops).....

 

[Rhoobarb]

I can do that. I wonder if the flaked rye has the same head retention qualities that wheat does. I'm guessing no, but like I said, I'm guessing no....

I think it might! At least, that was my experience when I used flaked rye. I brewed up an extract w/ grain version of the Hop Rod Rye and it had a rocky, foamy head that didn't go away. But I used some flaked wheat in that recipe, too.

 

[Dude]

Okay, how about this for a name, seeing it has been mentioned a few times already...

"Beast of the Fire and Brimstone"

I can see the label already. Fire, a beast, dark.....oh man........beer wood again!!!!!

It all fits, beast cause its a big beer, fire cause we ahve a smoke thing going, and brimstone because of the obvious references with 666 and all that...

I think it is a perfect fit guys (and gals)....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_and_brimstone

 

[Tony]

I think it might! At least, that was my experience when I used flaked rye. I brewed up an extract w/ grain version of the Hop Rod Rye and it had a rocky, foamy head that didn't go away. But I used some flaked wheat in that recipe, too.

Indeed it does. Rhoobard hit the nail on the head. I do the AG version of Hop Rod Rye and ALWAYS have a thick lingering head. It only has a 1/2 pound of german dark wheat, so that has a hand in it, but not that much. I know raw rye is used to help in head retention, so flaked would generally be the same, along with imparting a dry, crisp flavor.

Sooo...whats up with the brown sugar or honey addition? Whats the verdict?

 

[Dude]

Indeed it does. Rhoobard hit the nail on the head. I do the AG version of Hop Rod Rye and ALWAYS have a thick lingering head. It only has a 1/2 pound of german dark wheat, so that has a hand in it, but not that much. I know raw rye is used to help in head retention, so flaked would generally be the same, along with imparting a dry, crisp flavor.

Sooo...whats up with the brown sugar or honey addition? Whats the verdict?

okay, taking the wheat out.....

I vote for brown sugar, if we have a color (too dark) problem, we'll explore honey?

 

[Rhoobarb]

okay, taking the wheat out.....

I vote for brown sugar, if we have a color (too dark) problem, we'll explore honey?

I don't think color will really be a big issue. I've used dark brown sugar on a nut brown ale before. It will add a little color and give the ale a very slight tart or cidery taste - which in a big beer, can be good. Honey tends to make for a slightly drier taste and most of the sweetness ferments away. I have both on hand, so it's a coin-toss for me! Whatever the majority decides is fine by me.

In the words of Flounder, "Oh booooy, is this greeeeat!?!"

 

[Tony]

...I vote for brown sugar, if we have a color (too dark) problem, we'll explore honey?

No problem, just as long as we arent still trying to get a red color. As with the Special B and brown sugar, we will get a more pronounced brown. And thats okay with me, we really dont need to worry about that. The flavor of Special B is more of a desireable aspect than color in my opinion.

Anyone else?

 

[Dude]

No problem, just as long as we arent still trying to get a red color. As with the Special B and brown sugar, we will get a more pronounced brown. And thats okay with me, we really dont need to worry about that. The flavor of Special B is more of a desireable aspect than color in my opinion.

Anyone else?

See, I'd like it red, that is a major sticking point for me....

What makes a good red? It is hard to find info on what malts give that good copper color.

 

[Darth Konvel]

I'd love to see it come out a nice deep red color. I dig the use of Special B, but I'm not sure how much we are going to need for it to be detectable - maybe down to a 1/4 pound?

 

[Dude]

I'd love to see it come out a nice deep red color. I dig the use of Special B, but I'm not sure how much we are going to need for it to be detectable - maybe down to a 1/4 pound?

Yeah, I was always under the impression Special B was one of the malts specifically used for a red color, as well as obvious depth of flavor.....

This is ultimate going to come down to experimentation....and I'm a willing participant to brew this a few times and reap the rewards of sampling it!!!!!

 

[Tony]

I'd love to see it come out a nice deep red color. I dig the use of Special B, but I'm not sure how much we are going to need for it to be detectable - maybe down to a 1/4 pound?

Believe me guys, I dig it as well, and I really hate being the nay-sayer of the bunch on the Special B. Its an extremely dark caramel malt, with a Lovibond of 145 to 155. And even with switching to honey, a 1/4 pound will still cause a dark color. Im just not sure about it when looking for a red color. Just giving my opinion. Im hoping maybe we can get a blood color from using it sparingly.

 

[Tony]

Yeah, I was always under the impression Special B was one of the malts specifically used for a red color, as well as obvious depth of flavor.....

This is ultimate going to come down to experimentation....and I'm a willing participant to brew this a few times and reap the rewards of sampling it!!!!!

Crystal 120L give a more redder color, but Im up to experiment as well. Besides, it definately will be enjoyable.

 

[Dude]

Believe me guys, I dig it as well, and I really hate being the nay-sayer of the bunch on the Special B. Its an extremely dark caramel malt, with a Lovibond of 145 to 155. And even with switching to honey, a 1/4 pound will still cause a dark color. Im just not sure about it when looking for a red color. Just giving my opinion. Im hoping maybe we can get a blood color from using it sparingly.

I hear ya man--this is freaking fun isn't it?

We'll get this narrowed down and brew it up a few times and see what we come up with....

 

[Pumbaa]

I got couple graphics we could use for the label too . . .

Devils

and just a cool little dragon

plus various different flames

speaking of flames . . . .

This is pretty flaming

 

[dave-m]

WTF Pumbaa,

I thought we were talkin' about making beer here!!

That pretty much came outta' left field.

Funny though....

 

[Treekiller]

YIKES, I'm scared.

 

[El Pistolero]

This is pretty flaming

I really love your label suggestions, but respectfully, you don't know squat about flaming.

 

[rewster451]

Wow, this is a REALLY cool idea. I just got in on this. I used a Cara red grain in my Irish red. It came out pretty dark, because it's extract, and extracts tend to get dark. If you used the grain bill I used with AG, you might get a blood red color. I'm going to try to find that and post it.

 

[rewster451]

This is what I used
4oz. C 60-L
4oz. Dingemans Aromatic
4oz. Cara Red
6oz. Crisp Amber
5oz. Paul's Mild
2oz. Chocolate Malt
1oz. Roasted Barley
1lb. 2-Row

It definitely had a nice red character before we started adding extracts. I don't know what the flavor will be like since it's still in primary, but it's something I thought I might be able to contribute. Since I'm still new at this, I'm only offering what I can. It smelled nice, but I think some of the grains will definitely have to change to get something that fits the direction we seem to be going in. Also, if you're going to do it AG, the 1lb. of 2-Row is obviously not going to work.

Again, just trying to be helpful, not much knowledge here.

 

[Pumbaa]

I really love your label suggestions, but respectfully, you don't know squat about flaming.

Ya all told me to link it the next time, and I was still kinda giggleing fromthe other night so I figured lets see who I could make shart again



I do have a few flames though, I mean fire like

 

[SwAMi75]

I really love your label suggestions, but respectfully, you don't know squat about flaming.

Would you believe that guy(?) is from Tulsa?

 

[El Pistolero]

Would you believe that guy(?) is from Tulsa?

Yea, one of his more famous poses is in a cowboy outfit, which provides much fodder for sooners on the sports boards.

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

Hate to be the posterboy for melanoidin (actually I don't mind), but it will improve red color. In my limited experience with reds Special B will, too, but you need very little. Maybe 2-4 oz for a batch. I've never used Cara Red (would be difficult to find), but after looking around on the web it appears a good choice? If it were up to me, I would choose two from the following for the red (any more and I think you'll lose what each one brings to the party.:
melanoidin
Special B
Cara Red
Aromatic

For a base I would go with MO, but any 2-row would work.

Of course rye since that's reached by concensus.

And for a malty red beer I think some bamburg (or second choice peat) malt would go well.

My 0.2 pesos.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

See, I'd like it red, that is a major sticking point for me....

What makes a good red? It is hard to find info on what malts give that good copper color.

caravienne, munich, special B, and a tad of chocolate malt give a great red hue to a brew.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

roasted barley will lend a red hue too. used in many irish red ales.......

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

Yeah, I'd be down with a touch of roasted barley or chocolate malt...just to enhance the reddish color.

 

[Rhoobarb]

Okay, just to recap/update, here is what Dude has put together so far. Please correct me if this is wrong:

06.06.06
----------------
Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 5.50
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes
(Anticipated SRM: 19.3; Anticipated IBU: 64.8)

Grain/Extract/Sugar
Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
6.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 (2-L)
2.50 lbs. Flaked Rye America 1.034 (2-L)
2.50 lbs. Rye Malt America 1.030 (4-L)
2.00 lbs. Munich Malt Germany 1.037 (8-L)
1.00 lbs. Brown Sugar (dark) Generic 1.046 (60-L)
1.00 lbs. Smoked(Bamberg) Germany 1.037 (9-L)
0.50 lbs. Crystal 120L America 1.033 (120-L)
0.50 lbs. Special B Malt Belgian 1.030 (120-L)
Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 oz. Chinook Whole 13.00 45.7 60 min.
1.00 oz. Northern Brewer Whole 9.00 16.1 30 min.
1.00 oz. Willamette Whole 5.00 2.9 5 min.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeast
White Labs WLP028 Edinburgh Ale
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The BJCP guidelines for an Irish Red call for an IBU of 17–28, so we’ve blown that out of the water, which is fine, IMHO! I like a hoppy Red. The BJCP also calls for an ABV=4.0-6.0% (screw that!) and an SRM (color) factor of 9-18, so were at the upper limit there. Any more and I’m afraid it may become a brown ale.

We could drop the 120-L crystal altogether, go with a 30-L, 40-L or maybe some Aromatic or any ‘Cara’ malt, or (I had to say it! Sorry!) swap out the brown sugar for honey.

What say we?!

 

[Tony]

Okay, Im down with the following ingredients:

Grain
6.00 lbs. Pale Malt
2.50 lbs. Rye Malt
2.00 lbs. Munich
1.00 lbs. Smoked

Adjuncts
2.50 lbs. Flaked Rye

Hops
1.00 oz. Chinook 60 min.
1.00 oz. Northern Brewer 30 min.
1.00 oz. Willamette 5 min.

Yeast
WLP028 Edinburgh Ale

If we all agree on these, then we can be ready of we nail down the following:

Color Grains:
Special B?
Cara Red ?
Melanoidin?
Special B?
Cara Red?
Aromatic?
Roasted?
Chocolate?

Adjunct:
Honey?
Brown Sugar?


Me? Im down with:
Melanoidin
CaraRed
Special B (tiny amount)
Honey

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