Well....it's done. Just placed an order for a Mill City 500g roaster. I blame all of you, but mostly @jammin. I'll keep you updated.
Wow! I know nothing about that roaster but I’m excited for you!
☕ Coffee ☕: Ingredients, Roasting, Grinding, Brewing, and Tasting
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Wow! I know nothing about that roaster but I’m excited for you!
shelly_belly
Someday After A While
Well....it's done. Just placed an order for a Mill City 500g roaster. I blame all of you, but mostly @jammin
Wow! You went skydiving into that rabbit hole! Congratulations.
Well....it's done. Just placed an order for a Mill City 500g roaster. I blame all of you, but mostly @jammin
can’t wait to hear this journey unfold!
shelly_belly
Someday After A While
I have not got blueberry out of the Banko yet. I've only roasted it once as a lot of coffee came in right after the Banko (and @Ruint sent me like 6 weeks worth of roasted coffee on the mystery bean swap - thank you very much). I was able to get blueberry out of the Ethiopia DP Guji Hangadhi I got earlier this year. It was from a city+ roast and as an espresso. It was rested only 36 hours.
applescrap
Be the ball!
@Inkleg awesome man. Wow, so cool. Im with Jammin, cant wait to see what you do with it. Your bread making and artisan skills are amazing.
On a similar vain my wife and I have been fighting about the mc 6kg. Gosh dang, what would I do with 60 pounds an hour. Easier to share with my hbt friends thats for sure. Whats a good price on the banko type? I was thinking 20.
On a similar vain my wife and I have been fighting about the mc 6kg. Gosh dang, what would I do with 60 pounds an hour. Easier to share with my hbt friends thats for sure. Whats a good price on the banko type? I was thinking 20.
applescrap
Be the ball!
You should see some of the roasters that come up here. Inexpensive ones from mexico, diedrichs, mill city, I am starting to see this as a way out. I mean if my wife and I gave it our full all, could we do it? How, why, talk about rabbit holes!
@Inkleg.....it is a lllloooooonnnngggggg way to the bottom!!! LoL!!!!! Congrats on the decision And pulling the trigger.
@shelly_belly ...hopefully you are still enjoying the coffee!
@shelly_belly ...hopefully you are still enjoying the coffee!
applescrap
Be the ball!
Sorry fellas for the trifecta. Looking at the diedrich for sale I realized that I am not sure this is right. I looked up where it is being sold at and it is a company called novo coffee. They are selling quality beans I am sure but nothing that struck me as special for 16 to $19 a pound. The fact that finca Panama is the same price as the Ethiopian or a dollar less tells me the Ethiopian is probably not like the Banko. But anyways they said they started with this roaster.
Never mind it wasn't a diedrich it's a vittorina. They have clearly created a brand for themselves and have stepped up from a 30 pound roaster. I realized right away I had no interest in creating a huge brand like this. My day job doesn't pay well but it's my job. So it seems I either need a side hustle or to go all in. I think I'm looking more for a side hustle which means a smaller roasters probably better. I only want a big one because I'm lazy but how much coffee do I need for the side hustle? It's not a 100 pounds an hour.
So yeah they sell coffee and roasted coffee and I am sure breakfast burritos and whatever else. Book in 5 or 10 years with a lot of hard work I could see creating something like this and being wealthy. But man that is way harder than I want to work.
Never mind it wasn't a diedrich it's a vittorina. They have clearly created a brand for themselves and have stepped up from a 30 pound roaster. I realized right away I had no interest in creating a huge brand like this. My day job doesn't pay well but it's my job. So it seems I either need a side hustle or to go all in. I think I'm looking more for a side hustle which means a smaller roasters probably better. I only want a big one because I'm lazy but how much coffee do I need for the side hustle? It's not a 100 pounds an hour.
So yeah they sell coffee and roasted coffee and I am sure breakfast burritos and whatever else. Book in 5 or 10 years with a lot of hard work I could see creating something like this and being wealthy. But man that is way harder than I want to work.
Could you do a partnership with 1 or 2 other people to split costs and time? If the sync was right with each partner's schedule, might work out to a cool PT gig for each of you.
applescrap
Be the ball!
That is a great question. I have drank through 4 pounds of it now and I think I got some blueberry notes on two pots or so. Thats it. Doesn't matter it's still excellent and at that ridiculously low price. I know you know all this below but ill add for the good of the cause.
My Experiments with longer roasts have only led to blander coffee. I roasted the konga longer thinking let me see if I can develop more fruit flavor by diminishing any chance of char or any other dark roast notes or whatever the heck I was thinking, and all I got was a bland cup of coffee. Iirc it wasnt bad, but it was definitely not the same as the short and quick roasts that were full of life and blueberry. Having roasted it quicker, and in my opinion better, there was no comparison and no need to continue experimenting . I have found this true time and time again and that has led me back to roasting with full power.
I understand and am aware that with a less dense bean, roasting to hot and quick can have some tipping and scorching as well as other bad effects. Since I pretty much only drink dp Ethiopian, I am not as familiar with less dense beans and how to roast them as well. If someone pinned me down, I would say that blueberry is either strong in the coffee or it isn't and there really is no way to bring it out as much as there is a way to remove it. Now if it is there and one hasn't removed it, roasting quicker will almost always bring more of it out than roasting slower in my experience.
It makes sense, if you take a super expensive steak and cook it real slow and don't sear it well, it won't taste as well as one that is cooked in a cast iron. The maillard reaction is similar chemically in both of these items. So continuing on with that and combining that with learnings from Mill City videos and coupling that tangentially with doctor covey's 7 habits. Beginning with the end in mind is a good idea.
The question is what is the coffee and what do you want in your cup. In this case the coffee is a dried processed Ethiopian and what do you want in your cup. I want sweetness and brightness with some hints of chocolate tones and as much fruit flavor is there. Then you plan your roast around that. If the coffee has no acidity and you would like some more brightness you need to roast it faster. If the coffee has lots of acidity and you want to diminish it, you need to roast it slower. If you would like a little more chocolate, then a little darker . And on and on.
And I'm about reaching the end of my knowledge and experience. But beginning with the end in mind and thinking what i would like to drink in the cup can really help develop a better roast. I can add that my experience has led me to see smaller changes with better outcomes. By roasting slower I might mean 13 minutes instead of 10 not 16 or 17. Roasting quicker might mean 30 seconds. And of course this is all unique to everyones setup. You can start at the outward spectrums and work towards the middle and thats not a bad idea (with cheap coffee), but ultimately its a scalpel rather than a machete needed. As we us roasters collectively push thinking forward we are coming to realize that many ideas that were hard-and-fast aren't always right. Each coffee and machine is different. Happy cups coffee bros!
My Experiments with longer roasts have only led to blander coffee. I roasted the konga longer thinking let me see if I can develop more fruit flavor by diminishing any chance of char or any other dark roast notes or whatever the heck I was thinking, and all I got was a bland cup of coffee. Iirc it wasnt bad, but it was definitely not the same as the short and quick roasts that were full of life and blueberry. Having roasted it quicker, and in my opinion better, there was no comparison and no need to continue experimenting . I have found this true time and time again and that has led me back to roasting with full power.
I understand and am aware that with a less dense bean, roasting to hot and quick can have some tipping and scorching as well as other bad effects. Since I pretty much only drink dp Ethiopian, I am not as familiar with less dense beans and how to roast them as well. If someone pinned me down, I would say that blueberry is either strong in the coffee or it isn't and there really is no way to bring it out as much as there is a way to remove it. Now if it is there and one hasn't removed it, roasting quicker will almost always bring more of it out than roasting slower in my experience.
It makes sense, if you take a super expensive steak and cook it real slow and don't sear it well, it won't taste as well as one that is cooked in a cast iron. The maillard reaction is similar chemically in both of these items. So continuing on with that and combining that with learnings from Mill City videos and coupling that tangentially with doctor covey's 7 habits. Beginning with the end in mind is a good idea.
The question is what is the coffee and what do you want in your cup. In this case the coffee is a dried processed Ethiopian and what do you want in your cup. I want sweetness and brightness with some hints of chocolate tones and as much fruit flavor is there. Then you plan your roast around that. If the coffee has no acidity and you would like some more brightness you need to roast it faster. If the coffee has lots of acidity and you want to diminish it, you need to roast it slower. If you would like a little more chocolate, then a little darker . And on and on.
And I'm about reaching the end of my knowledge and experience. But beginning with the end in mind and thinking what i would like to drink in the cup can really help develop a better roast. I can add that my experience has led me to see smaller changes with better outcomes. By roasting slower I might mean 13 minutes instead of 10 not 16 or 17. Roasting quicker might mean 30 seconds. And of course this is all unique to everyones setup. You can start at the outward spectrums and work towards the middle and thats not a bad idea (with cheap coffee), but ultimately its a scalpel rather than a machete needed. As we us roasters collectively push thinking forward we are coming to realize that many ideas that were hard-and-fast aren't always right. Each coffee and machine is different. Happy cups coffee bros!
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
@applescrap I would suggest doing some work on crunching numbers about business possibilities and how much it might be worth. I don't think roasting coffee is going to make many people rich, unless they can really capitalize and expand quickly and effectively. And without a lot of seed capital and really, really good partners, it's tough to do that.
Just looking at Chicago, one of the biggest roasters here tried that (Bowtruss). They opened 10 roasteries/cafe's in less than 5 years, teamed up with ultra-investor Marcus Leominis (spelling is off, too lazy to look that up), and suddenly closed shop overnight with no warning to anyone because they couldn't turn a profit and afford payroll.
Personally, I don't think there's good money in it UNLESS you work it from multiple angles and get a few people involved who can really help add value and expand the business. Oh, and have money up front to invest. Oh....and time. Lots of time.
If anyone can prove me wrong, please please do. I still hope to have a small roastery some day when I'm "retired"...a passion project. Who knows - at that point in my life maybe my hobby will instead be building bourbon barrels. But that's kind of my goal right now because I don't want to invest a lot of money and time for something that might not pay off.
But that's what life is about - risk and reward.
Just looking at Chicago, one of the biggest roasters here tried that (Bowtruss). They opened 10 roasteries/cafe's in less than 5 years, teamed up with ultra-investor Marcus Leominis (spelling is off, too lazy to look that up), and suddenly closed shop overnight with no warning to anyone because they couldn't turn a profit and afford payroll.
Personally, I don't think there's good money in it UNLESS you work it from multiple angles and get a few people involved who can really help add value and expand the business. Oh, and have money up front to invest. Oh....and time. Lots of time.
If anyone can prove me wrong, please please do. I still hope to have a small roastery some day when I'm "retired"...a passion project. Who knows - at that point in my life maybe my hobby will instead be building bourbon barrels. But that's kind of my goal right now because I don't want to invest a lot of money and time for something that might not pay off.
But that's what life is about - risk and reward.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Spent the last couple weeks traveling around in Europe, thought I'd share some of my fun coffee-related experiences.
First stop was in Budapest, Hungary. I will say, of the places we went, Budapest had the best coffee scene. A couple weeks ago I posted the picture of a washroom where you tamp the portafilter to flush the toilet - that was in Budapest. It's also where I had one of the best espresso shots I've ever had, at a place called By Beans. It was fantastic.
Next stop was in Santorini, Greece. Pretty boring, nothing exceptional. I've had "Greek Coffee" before on a previous trip to Athens, so I knew better than to try it again because it's pretty bad. Most coffee there is just boring espresso. (If you are wondering, Greek Coffee is pretty much like Turkish coffee).
Final stop was Barcelona, Spain. I was expecting good coffee/espresso here but was disappointed. I'm pretty much ordering only straight-espresso or a machiatto while I'm over there, and most of these were underwhelming. I was at a place for lunch and ordered an espresso - they asked "long or short?". I had never been asked that before; I answered "long" and received a beautiful espresso that was really well rounded. This was the best one I had in Barcelona - everything else was much worse than what I roast/brew on my Gaggia.
Story time about a coffee experience in Barcelona - we happened upon a 3rd Wave-esque cafe toward the end of our two weeks, and they had options for cups of coffee brewed with either the Kalita Wave or Aeropress. Can you imagine how excited I was to drink a freaking normal cup of coffee after 2 weeks of mostly-just-par espresso? I was elated at the opportunity! I consulted with the barista - they had a Colombian or a Guatemalan. I chose the Guat, of course, and asked for it through the Kalita. Next - they use two Acaia Pearls (yeah, you know, the $150 scale that serious coffee shops use) to pour my wife and my coffee. My anxiety and excitement continues to mount. I can tell this place takes things seriously. I can't wait. She brings over empty cups and sets them down next to the Wave's carafe so we can pour it ourselves, and....and...and!
It was like tea. The picture may not do it much justice, but you can see the white of my mug. You shouldn't see the white of my mug. What was the brew ratio? 1:25? Well, that was a major miss, but it was still good, though the flavors were really muted. Not as good as it could have been, but better than most coffee I'd had. Maybe that's how they cut costs despite the $4 cup of coffee.
It's great to be back home though and the next morning after getting back I thoroughly enjoyed a large batch of Uganda SO poured through a paper filter in my Chemex.
First stop was in Budapest, Hungary. I will say, of the places we went, Budapest had the best coffee scene. A couple weeks ago I posted the picture of a washroom where you tamp the portafilter to flush the toilet - that was in Budapest. It's also where I had one of the best espresso shots I've ever had, at a place called By Beans. It was fantastic.
Next stop was in Santorini, Greece. Pretty boring, nothing exceptional. I've had "Greek Coffee" before on a previous trip to Athens, so I knew better than to try it again because it's pretty bad. Most coffee there is just boring espresso. (If you are wondering, Greek Coffee is pretty much like Turkish coffee).
Final stop was Barcelona, Spain. I was expecting good coffee/espresso here but was disappointed. I'm pretty much ordering only straight-espresso or a machiatto while I'm over there, and most of these were underwhelming. I was at a place for lunch and ordered an espresso - they asked "long or short?". I had never been asked that before; I answered "long" and received a beautiful espresso that was really well rounded. This was the best one I had in Barcelona - everything else was much worse than what I roast/brew on my Gaggia.
Story time about a coffee experience in Barcelona - we happened upon a 3rd Wave-esque cafe toward the end of our two weeks, and they had options for cups of coffee brewed with either the Kalita Wave or Aeropress. Can you imagine how excited I was to drink a freaking normal cup of coffee after 2 weeks of mostly-just-par espresso? I was elated at the opportunity! I consulted with the barista - they had a Colombian or a Guatemalan. I chose the Guat, of course, and asked for it through the Kalita. Next - they use two Acaia Pearls (yeah, you know, the $150 scale that serious coffee shops use) to pour my wife and my coffee. My anxiety and excitement continues to mount. I can tell this place takes things seriously. I can't wait. She brings over empty cups and sets them down next to the Wave's carafe so we can pour it ourselves, and....and...and!
It was like tea. The picture may not do it much justice, but you can see the white of my mug. You shouldn't see the white of my mug. What was the brew ratio? 1:25? Well, that was a major miss, but it was still good, though the flavors were really muted. Not as good as it could have been, but better than most coffee I'd had. Maybe that's how they cut costs despite the $4 cup of coffee.
It's great to be back home though and the next morning after getting back I thoroughly enjoyed a large batch of Uganda SO poured through a paper filter in my Chemex.
applescrap
Be the ball!
You make a lot of good points. The story my friend told from Crested Butte Is a good one. The guys started by selling coffee on a cart at the base of a mountain. From there he opened up a small coffee shop where he pedaled his roasted coffee but also bagels and breakfast burritos and whatever else he could sell. The idea I think is to build a brand. And you pointed out what that takes time and money. I have little of each of those coupled the fact that I don't want to work that hard. You should see the bagel place by me and their bagels aren't even that good. That place is crowded all morning every morning. It's also being run by teenagers on the weekends. They're nice kids and they do a good job. I think the right business for me is just side hustling pounds of coffee for a little extra scratch.
applescrap
Be the ball!
This weeks bodhi sale is 25 percent off costa rica aquiares. At 8 per pound it was 28 for 5 pounds with deal I reaearched.
I have been craving founders breakfast with cold brew ethiopian. The light roast in the stout. Anyone ever try a light roast in a stout?
Also anyone use this thing. Man I am drooling.
I have been craving founders breakfast with cold brew ethiopian. The light roast in the stout. Anyone ever try a light roast in a stout?
Also anyone use this thing. Man I am drooling.
shelly_belly
Someday After A While
I remember @Hoppy2bmerry posted she got one "in the mail today"
@applescrap...we tried a light roasted Ethiopian cold brew in a stout at one of our beer club meetings a couple months ago! By itself the stout was somewhat of a let down, but after adding it, made it much more enjoyable. I am thinking that you won't be disappointed.
applescrap
Be the ball!
Sounds great. I like the way you described it. Didnt say that well. I am craving it having made it before and wanting it again. And wanted to see if any others had a similar experience. It really does step the brew up a notch doesnt it?! Man I am salivating thinking about it and I want it chocolatey too. But not to chocolately. Maybe a splash of bourbon here or there.
applescrap
Be the ball!
Roasted the hanabongi last night. It was cold, and dark out. I took some pics, but i got side tracked and didnt check it until 7 ish minutes. It was good enough at 7 and was on a nice path. Conversely the guat geisha at 4mins was progressing to quickly. I knew it would be fine because I have roasted a lot of it. Also the cold provides just the right buffer. Note I do not charge the roaster. Last night I had some thoughts about that I will share later. It seems the charge temp is another factor that must be considered. My 2nd roasts, basically now the roaster is charged have not been the same. By not charging the roaster I think it helps mitigate the problem of correct drying. I will add more later
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shelly_belly
Someday After A While
That looks great! I've never had a nitro coffee. Sadly, I'm going to have to hit Starbucks to find one around here.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Well, I went ahead and ordered the 30 lbs of coffee I'll be using in my Christmas Blend this year. It'll be a mix of Brazil and Ethiopia. I spent a good hour trying to find beans I thought would give me the flavors I wanted, and kind of struggled through SM's options.
About 6 hours after I placed my order, I fired up the roaster to roast some coffee I had ordered a month or two ago. I hadn't even opened the box yet, so I opened it and what do I see? 10 lbs of the same Brazil I just ordered for my Christmas Blend.
Ooof. Talk about a moron. So, now I have 25 lbs of the same Brazil bean. If all goes well, I should sell all of the Christmas Blend, and then I'll just have the original 10 lbs which I'm trying to sell now. It's actually a fantastic coffee, so not a big deal. Just a major personal mistake!
About 6 hours after I placed my order, I fired up the roaster to roast some coffee I had ordered a month or two ago. I hadn't even opened the box yet, so I opened it and what do I see? 10 lbs of the same Brazil I just ordered for my Christmas Blend.
Ooof. Talk about a moron. So, now I have 25 lbs of the same Brazil bean. If all goes well, I should sell all of the Christmas Blend, and then I'll just have the original 10 lbs which I'm trying to sell now. It's actually a fantastic coffee, so not a big deal. Just a major personal mistake!
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Mid life crisis roaster update.
The roaster due to ship Thanksgiving week and exhaust is due the following week. Though a bit pricy I went with the Mill City exhaust to have a clean lay out that's simple to take apart and have just one exit to hook up. I have 10 pounds seasoning greens coming and five 10 pound bags of different coffees coming.
As I type this I look to my left through a window and can see where the roaster will sit in the sun/brew room. I'm anxious, excited and wondering WTF at the same time. I don't know where this road is heading, but I'm glad to have all y'all here with me and a huge thanks to @jammin for the support!
The roaster due to ship Thanksgiving week and exhaust is due the following week. Though a bit pricy I went with the Mill City exhaust to have a clean lay out that's simple to take apart and have just one exit to hook up. I have 10 pounds seasoning greens coming and five 10 pound bags of different coffees coming.
As I type this I look to my left through a window and can see where the roaster will sit in the sun/brew room. I'm anxious, excited and wondering WTF at the same time. I don't know where this road is heading, but I'm glad to have all y'all here with me and a huge thanks to @jammin for the support!
Im anxious to see pictures about the MCR venting! That’s one thing I’ve REALLY wished I did “right” now that the dust has has settled. The B vent I have now works great but when you’re going full stop it makes sense to get the proper equipment.
Your new model has a few features I’m also quite jealous of:
- lamp for bean inspection. the clamp on light I have is OK buts it’s cumbersome. I could do better but I did search a bit & the options are limited. This a great upgrade/feature that other machines in class do not have.
- integrated cooling tray. the update is now vented out with the exhaust unlike my stand alone piece. when I dump the beans any smoke coming off goes into the room. No stirring arm or bean chute for filling a bag or container.
- pressure manometer. I added this on my plenum to have a quantifiable fan reading. It’s stock now but I’ve since deleted mine - couldn’t get any useful data.
- 2mm probes. My roaster came w/5mm probes that I used for a long time. Once I switched over to thinner more responsive TC’s it was a BIG upgrade. Don’t get too frustrated adapting to Artisan along the way - you’ll soon be lost without it!
Glad to get an update - we’re all living vicariously through you
Your new model has a few features I’m also quite jealous of:
- lamp for bean inspection. the clamp on light I have is OK buts it’s cumbersome. I could do better but I did search a bit & the options are limited. This a great upgrade/feature that other machines in class do not have.
- integrated cooling tray. the update is now vented out with the exhaust unlike my stand alone piece. when I dump the beans any smoke coming off goes into the room. No stirring arm or bean chute for filling a bag or container.
- pressure manometer. I added this on my plenum to have a quantifiable fan reading. It’s stock now but I’ve since deleted mine - couldn’t get any useful data.
- 2mm probes. My roaster came w/5mm probes that I used for a long time. Once I switched over to thinner more responsive TC’s it was a BIG upgrade. Don’t get too frustrated adapting to Artisan along the way - you’ll soon be lost without it!
Glad to get an update - we’re all living vicariously through you
applescrap
Be the ball!
Will you roast those together or separate? I think I ask you every year, doh.
Welp, after drinking the banko and geisha, the hana is not the same level but I am enjoying it. I roast with a fairly bright led head lamp on.
Welp, after drinking the banko and geisha, the hana is not the same level but I am enjoying it. I roast with a fairly bright led head lamp on.
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Roasted this last Sunday and made it twice at work after a 2 and 3 day rest, it was ok. Made it this morning after a 6 day rest and what a change. This is just a good cup of coffee. If you were trying to ween a friend from cream and sugar this would be the one to do it with. Good call on this @jammin and thanks for sharing.Anyone interested in splitting some of this Honey Processed Ethiopian? No berries mentioned, just a real comfort food sounding type coffee.
CJ1317 - Ethiopia Hafursa Waro “Tej” Process Crown Jewel
Notes:
- 9 minute roast time yielded flavors of "cooked peach, cantaloupe & honey nut Cheerios". Good for espresso.
- High Density. Mostly small screen size of 15/16 with less than avg moisture.
- $137.50/22lbs = $6.25/lb. $7.55 Priority Mail shipping for a total of $38.80 for 5lbs on your doorstep.
(2) 5lb bags to share with the gang
- @Inkleg got you!
Lmao!! You have gone down the hole too far now @Inkleg to ever be able to scramble back out!! It will be a fantastic journey for you friend! Don't let the bumps and blind curves throw you from coarse, just take em and learn.
I know I have enjoyed my travels so far, and I have been able to let others enjoy some of the journeys' findings.
i got the email for this & passed on it but a regular on Homebarista sounded convinced enough that i bought 5lbs.
hopefully it delivers... not sure why i keep going back to Geisha's....
https://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=21709.0
hopefully it delivers... not sure why i keep going back to Geisha's....
https://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=21709.0
applescrap
Be the ball!
Super jealous. That looks amazing. I am not in a good place to buy any, we are surprising the kids with a trip to disney world. I would have been pretty to close to a mc roaster when all is said and done. [emoji23] I am down to 3 pounds.
^just do like I do & wait until you’ve had 5 or 6 IPA’s before you decide to order
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I got the same email this morning and was checking out that coffee before coming here. Thank goodness I was drinking coffee and have 50 pounds already coming.^just do like I do & wait until you’ve had 5 or 6 IPA’s before you decide to order
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