☕ Coffee ☕: Ingredients, Roasting, Grinding, Brewing, and Tasting

[HarborTownBrewing]

That 307/322 number I mentioned is at the 7:30 mark of the roast btw, right before the fan kicks on

 

[banesong]

New toy!

View attachment 1451140347043.jpg

 

[TrickyDick]

I got a new toy also. Kalita SS pour over Brewer.
Merry Christmas folks!

 

[1977Brewer]

Here's my home roast. Popcorn popper is a good starter roaster, but I'll want more capacity and control pretty soon. Like now. I'll make due.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1451143697.089698.jpg

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

As long as we are posting about new toys. ..

My wife gave me permission to buy an espresso machine. Big deal, since she opposes anything extra on the countertop (funny since I make coffee every day of the year but her mixer only gets used 7 times a year. ..)

 

[TrickyDick]

As long as we are posting about new toys. ..

My wife gave me permission to buy an espresso machine. Big deal, since she opposes anything extra on the countertop (funny since I make coffee every day of the year but her mixer only gets used 7 times a year. ..)

Too Funny! What model did you get? I have read a bunch about machines that can do pressure profiling to alter the pressure during the extraction. I bet that they are expensive though, but seems that nearly all the espresso machines are expensive.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Too Funny! What model did you get? I have read a bunch about machines that can do pressure profiling to alter the pressure during the extraction. I bet that they are expensive though, but seems that nearly all the espresso machines are expensive.

I haven't gotten one yet, I need to do some shopping. I got some Christmas money but I already know I'm not going to spend enough on the machine to get a great one. I've been searching for reviews by people with barista experience who use a lower end model at home, and I've seen a couple good reviews for Delonghi machines but I haven't done a ton of research yet.

Again, I know it's low end and all but I'm not going to spend $500+++ so I'm just going to get the best machine I can find for the money with positive, qualified reviews.

So if anyone has any advice, I'm all ears

 

[TrickyDick]

I've had my eye on the Rancillo Silvia for a while. Not sure if that's in your budget or maybe finding a higher end used machine. Not sure I want to jump down the espresso rabbit hole or not.

TD

 

[passedpawn]

I'll add my new toy. Wife got me an OXO burr grinder. Used it this morning. Pretty sweet, measures weight of grinds while grinding. Very cool looking too. Used it for the first time this morning and I'm VERY happy.

 

[TallDan]

I've had my eye on the Rancillo Silvia for a while. Not sure if that's in your budget or maybe finding a higher end used machine. Not sure I want to jump down the espresso rabbit hole or not.

TD

I bought my Silvia used (with PID controller installed) many years ago and it still works flawlessly. Seems like there would be other newer machines that match it by now though. I'll be interested to hear what you choose, harbortown.

Ive considered replacing the PID controller in mine, newer Auber kits regulate the steaming temp, which would be nice.

 

[jammin]

I got a new toy also. Kalita SS pour over Brewer.
Merry Christmas folks!

Been wanting one of those for a long time.

Let me know how you like it!

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

The Rancilio Silvia looks nice, still more than I want to spend. I saw some on ebay for $189 but that doesn't make sense. Scam I would guess

 

[jammin]

^i hate to be a wet blanket, but espresso is truly a rich mans game. newbies always focus on the machine and completely forget about the grinder. you truly need 55mm flat burrs just to get in the gate and you'd be absolutely surprised what a set of 68mm conical burrs will do to your espresso. an acceptable entry level espresso machine is usually right around $1k and another $500 to the budget can work wonders. honestly though, the grinder is BY FAR the most important tool for producing acceptable espresso.

at the peak of my espresso days, i ran a compak k10 doser model and pulled shots from KvDW speedster with black powder coat. ive messed with a little bit of everything in between though but there is no question that compak k10 with 68mm conical burrs was the best piece of equipment i ever used.



finally got around to roasting Aida Battle's EL Salv offering. used my basic roast profile to assess it. def looking forward to seeing what it has to offer!

piggy backed that kenya gathaiti i ordered along with it. went for an agressive charge and overshot my time to 1C but managed a sweet crawl through the stretch. really really excited to see how this one cups out with this wild roast. i do know kenyan's srsly excel in the light roast with a looonnngggg stretch so there's a good chance i didnt totally pooch this roast

 

[passedpawn]

^i hate to be a wet blanket, but espresso is truly a rich mans game. newbies always focus on the machine and completely forget about the grinder. you truly need 55mm flat burrs just to get in the gate and you'd be absolutely surprised what a set of 68mm conical burrs will do to your espresso. an acceptable entry level espresso machine is usually right around $1k and another $500 to the budget can work wonders. honestly though, the grinder is BY FAR the most important tool for producing acceptable espresso.

at the peak of my espresso days, i ran a compak k10 doser model and pulled shots from KvDW speedster with black powder coat. ive messed with a little bit of everything in between though but there is no question that compak k10 with 68mm conical burrs was the best piece of equipment i ever used.

How can the length of the burr have an effect on the coffee?

 

[TrickyDick]

Been wanting one of those for a long time.

Let me know how you like it!

I used it twice so far and very happy. Cannot regulate the flow except by what you pour over. Max dose so far was 27g coffee. Really like it but has only been used twice.
TD

 

[jammin]

^awesome - keep me posted as you become more familiar. I will live vicariously through you

How can the length of the burr have an effect on the coffee?

Good question, but it absolutely does; in a very significant way. As a general rule of thumb; flat, planar burrs will highlight bass tones and large conicals will yield greater clarity, acidity and floral/fruity notes.

Large conical burrs are also incredibly forgiving and produce FLUFFY, consistent grinds. You will easily notices the evenness of the pour when using a naked portafilter. Sprites will be nonexistent when using large conical grinders

So that's a very short answer and covers only a few of the basics. Some things must be experienced to understand I guess.

 

[passedpawn]

Good question, but it absolutely does; in a very significant way. As a general rule of thumb; flat, planar burrs will highlight bass tones and large conicals will yield greater clarity, acidity and floral/fruity notes.

Large conical burrs are also incredibly forgiving and produce FLUFFY, consistent grinds. You will easily notices the evenness of the pour when using a naked portafilter. Sprites will be nonexistent when using large conical grinders

So that's a very short answer and covers only a few of the basics. Some things must be experienced to understand I guess.

Are you saying that 55mm burrs are resulting in a different grind than, say, 40mm burrs? Longer burrs produce a "fluffy" coffee? What does fluffy mean? Do you have a picture of fluffy vs non-fluffy?

What's a sprite?

 

[jammin]

I mentioned 55mm burrs b/c that is what the classic Mazzer Super Jolly sports. It, along with the La Marzocco Linea is what Starbucks founded their stores on and the reason why LM has a stateside headquarters.

After Starbucks switched over to fully automatic machines to streamline consistency, the market was flooded with used Mazzer grinders. Early home enthusiasts adopted these grinders as they were far superior to anything offered at the consumer/prosumer level. Eventually they became the benchmark for any serious home espresso enthusiast.

Since then, several 55mm planar burr grinders have hit the market and even with slight differences in geometry the end product is quite ubiquitous. Any purist will tell you a Mazzer is special machine due to the tank-like build quality and warm fuzzies that it's lineage gives you when it's sitting on your bar.



Re: "longer burrs & fluffy grinds" -
First off, you're giving me a nervous twitch using the adjective "longer" in reference to burr diameter haha. Short answer though, is yes; larger burrs will generally yield better quality. Anecdotally speaking, I owned a very highly regarded flat burr grinder; a Mahlkonig K30. I quickly became frustrated with the grinder as it produced a very dense grind that caused several sprites to shoot out from the filter basket when poured from a naked portafilter. Sprites are when you have what looks like a "gleak" shooting out from a filter basket hole. This is the result of an inconsistent pour and uneven extraction in the coffee bed.
Shortly afterwards I purchased a Compak K10 which sported 68mm conical burrs. I do have pictures somewhere directly comparing the grinds but the point is the 68mm concicals would drop huge, fluffy clouds of grinds into the filter basket and dwarf the same weight off coffee ground on the smaller, flat burr grinder. The coffee was unquestionably better and the pours were beautifully consistent.

So again, not to be a downer but unless you have proper equipment you are facing a frustrating and challenging battle to pull a respectable shot.


Here is a quick video I took a few years ago of me single dosing my k10 and pulling a nice shot on my La Marzocco GS/3 mechanical paddle group. Notice the soft pre-infusion technique i used to saturate the coffee bed and encourage an even pour:

 

[TrickyDick]

^i hate to be a wet blanket, but espresso is truly a rich mans game. newbies always focus on the machine and completely forget about the grinder. you truly need 55mm flat burrs just to get in the gate and you'd be absolutely surprised what a set of 68mm conical burrs will do to your espresso. an acceptable entry level espresso machine is usually right around $1k and another $500 to the budget can work wonders. honestly though, the grinder is BY FAR the most important tool for producing acceptable espresso.

at the peak of my espresso days, i ran a compak k10 doser model and pulled shots from KvDW speedster with black powder coat. ive messed with a little bit of everything in between though but there is no question that compak k10 with 68mm conical burrs was the best piece of equipment i ever used.



finally got around to roasting Aida Battle's EL Salv offering. used my basic roast profile to assess it. def looking forward to seeing what it has to offer!

piggy backed that kenya gathaiti i ordered along with it. went for an agressive charge and overshot my time to 1C but managed a sweet crawl through the stretch. really really excited to see how this one cups out with this wild roast. i do know kenyan's srsly excel in the light roast with a looonnngggg stretch so there's a good chance i didnt totally pooch this roast

I can't get Artisan to work on Win 10 like you appear to be running. What did you need to do? I plug in the HotTop and first time, it downloaded some drivers but I cannot control the hottop from the program like I can on my MacBook. I heard you need to click the faux LCD top right corner before clicking control but that didn't work. I then manually downloaded a third party driver, I believe the same as I am using on my Macbook, but it gave an error during the install process which I've long since forgotten. Still using MacBook for operating the roaster, but want to transition to the Windows notebook.

In other news, Yes, I am liking the Kalita very much. Weigh out my beans and water after running some hot water through the filter and basket to pre-heat everything. Very smooth brews. So far, though I've not been measuring my %TDS at this point, it doesn't appear to be as prone to over-extraction like I can have with my Technivorm. I am not sure how large of a cup I can brew at once with it, but have used up to 30 grams coffee with about 475g water, which leaves room to spare in my small Yeti Rambler I've been using. I think a standard mug would be overfilled. BTW- the Yeti rambler is unbelievable in its ability to keep beverages hot or cold. spendy but worth it. As far as comparing the Kalita manual pour over vs my drip brewer or french press....

The technivorm I have is the "new" CD Mocchamaster (mine is 9 yrs old). I've mentioned before a few deficiencies it has: erratic water dispense/no pump so multiple back to back brew with precisely measured water and coffee dosing yielding randomly unequal brewed coffee mass with variances as much as 60g; V-cone filter design and non-uniform water dispersion result in high and dry grounds and channeling with crater-like spent grounds unless you manually interfere (which often leads to overextraction). I've been using a spoon to improves the water dispersion and leaving the pot off the heating element below to generate a preliminary immersion step, as suggested by folks at S.M.s though they have an older model which as a a switch to accomplish this. For me, when replacing the pot I remove the basket to disengage the valve mechanism which keeps liquid from draining and replace the basket once the pot is in place as this seems to make less mess, though even still sometimes the coffee first runnings don't enter the pot correctly and makes a bit of a mess. This method results in much fewer messes, often times none, compared to replacing the pot without removing the basket first. Water is still entering the basket while you are doing this too, so its a tricky thing.

French press pot I've had mixed results. I can also get overextracted brews, but I can eliminate the issue with the technivorm retaining water and erratic dispense volumes. I also have high cholesterol and the lack of a paper filter I think is probably the main reason. I prefer the lighter body of filtered coffee vs the french press and I've contemplated running the entire lot through a paper filter after brewing. The best thing about it is that I can take it with me and brew at work (along with my Bonavita teapot to heat water). I have a electric screwdriver and manual Hairo grinder I can use, but I find that to be very tedious, if I want to grind fresh. This works best for smaller brews such as with the aeropress.

Over the next week, which I have off, I am going to perhaps do some %TDS measurements with the French Press and the Kalita to try and "dial in" the grind and brew process to see where I like my coffee. Probably going to buy some commercial roast to do this with.

I am still amazed at the development phase #Jammin is able to get. I get nervous when I'm "stalled" at a specific temp for very long. Here a couple graphs from a few recent roasts that, to me, turned out very very good. I still can't get the flat development curve, and on the Nyeri Hill roast, I have a bit of a flip-up at the end on the bean temp ROR that I hear is detrimental. Also his curves are much smoother than mine, which might be in the settings somewhere.....

well, as ususal, another long rambling post...

TD

 

[TrickyDick]

I mentioned 55mm burrs b/c that is what the classic Mazzer Super Jolly sports. It, along with the La Marzocco Linea is what Starbucks founded their stores on and the reason why LM has a stateside headquarters.

After Starbucks switched over to fully automatic machines to streamline consistency, the market was flooded with used Mazzer grinders. Early home enthusiasts adopted these grinders as they were far superior to anything offered at the consumer/prosumer level. Eventually they became the benchmark for any serious home espresso enthusiast.

Since then, several 55mm planar burr grinders have hit the market and even with slight differences in geometry the end product is quite ubiquitous. Any purist will tell you a Mazzer is special machine due to the tank-like build quality and warm fuzzies that it's lineage gives you when it's sitting on your bar.



Re: "longer burrs & fluffy grinds" -
First off, you're giving me a nervous twitch using the adjective "longer" in reference to burr diameter haha. Short answer though, is yes; larger burrs will generally yield better quality. Anecdotally speaking, I owned a very highly regarded flat burr grinder; a Mahlkonig K30. I quickly became frustrated with the grinder as it produced a very dense grind that caused several sprites to shoot out from the filter basket when poured from a naked portafilter. Sprites are when you have what looks like a "gleak" shooting out from a filter basket hole. This is the result of an inconsistent pour and uneven extraction in the coffee bed.
Shortly afterwards I purchased a Compak K10 which sported 68mm conical burrs. I do have pictures somewhere directly comparing the grinds but the point is the 68mm concicals would drop huge, fluffy clouds of grinds into the filter basket and dwarf the same weight off coffee ground on the smaller, flat burr grinder. The coffee was unquestionably better and the pours were beautifully consistent.

So again, not to be a downer but unless you have proper equipment you are facing a frustrating and challenging battle to pull a respectable shot.


Here is a quick video I took a few years ago of me single dosing my k10 and pulling a nice shot on my La Marzocco GS/3 mechanical paddle group. Notice the soft pre-infusion technique i used to saturate the coffee bed and encourage an even pour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmTIG1bWk50

Wow. I think I need to stick to coffee rather than dive down this gaping rabbit hole. My sister gave me an espresso machine she no longer used back around 2003. It was a little bigger than a toaster. I had no idea wat I was doing. It was a little underpowered from what I recall. I think it was Sabco, but I think thats the name of the Brew Magic RIMS manufacturer, anyways, the name was something similar. I brewed up about 5 shots the day I got it and ended up with a gigantic caffeine headache that I will never forget. I brought it to work thinking it be good for a 3:30 pick me up from time to time, and I left it there after moving on. There was an Italian guy and I left it in his care with the understanding that he was free to use and keep it there but if I asked for a shot he would make one for me. Eventually I left that "job" and let him keep the machine. At the time I think I was using the ready to brew pucks from starbucks. Stuff was awful, as was the pre-ground Illy stuff.

By the way, are those grinders still widely available? I suspect not.


Oh one last question I'll throw out there. Got a $30 gift certificate to Sweet Maria's for Christmas! Wondering what to get. I have quite a bit of green beans on hand. Wondering about maybe some of their pre-roasted beans if anyone can vouch for the quality. Otherwise I might hang on to it for a while until something fantastic goes up.
TD

 

[jammin]

^TD - I'm very happy to hear about your promising results with the kalita. Your reports match others I've heard about extraction so that's really cool. That's terrific you have such attention to detail in taking measurements and the info you've shared is very helpful.

You know I'm a die-hard press pot fan but I like to dabble. This morning was aeropress and melitta 1-cup (most under rated Brewer ever).



To tie the whole espresso story together; I ended up selling off my whole kit as espresso just isn't for me. Love the flavor but it's a constant battle to pull the "god shot" that you're inevitably always chasing.

I really missed lingering over a big steaming mug in the morning too and that's just not something espresso could replace. I'd like to think I crawled through the entire rabbit hole and came out the other side looking for a simple cup of joe to sip on.


And yes, super jolly' are around but good condition units are always over priced. If you're into it and even slightly handy they are killer refurb project. I've seen some reealllly cool looking grinders people have customized.

If you're serious about spro', i will strongly urge you to buy a 68mm conical grinder and save up for a machine later. That Titan class conical can make almost any home barista look half competent. It's literally that good. Get a Dorset model for sure - DO NOT get sucked into a doserless. Used k10's can be had for $600 or so

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Anyone have experience with the Gaggia Classic?

Tricky, if you are looking for a coffee from Sweet marias, they had a Kenya Nyeri which was really beautiful. A little unique, with some really delicate strawberry and peach flavors. I unfortunately roasted through all 10lbs I had bought so I may get another 10. I'd highly recommend it

 

[jammin]

The Gaggia Classic is a great into machine. I'd suggest it over the Rancillo Silvia.



For that price and class, I'd suggest the Lelit PL41TQE or its slightly upgraded sister, the PL41TEM. It has built in PID and is a solid performer.

 

[jammin]

I have to laugh to myself a little here though.

No sooner than I type a novel on the importance of a grinder than someone asks about which machine to get

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Thanks for the info jammin.

I never said I wasn't upgrading my grinder. I don't even know that I'm buying a machine necessarily - just shopping the forum for info and input

 

[JonW]

Anyone have experience with the Gaggia Classic?

I've had a Gaggia Classic and a Gaggia Paros (same internals) and they are decent for an entry level machine. Definitely better than the dept store Delonghi, Salton, Krups, etc., but still an entry machine. If you're doing a lot of milk based drinks (steaming) it tends to run out of capacity pretty quick (all the lower end machines do), but it will steam enough for you to have two tall lattes in one go.

 

[passedpawn]

Roasted 5# Yirga Cheffe Baraka Buna yesterday. I do a City or City+ I think. Beans are chocolate colored but the split line is still tan. Anyway, this is exactly how I roasted it last time and to my palate it makes the perfect cup.

 

[TrickyDick]

Anyone have experience with the Gaggia Classic?

Tricky, if you are looking for a coffee from Sweet marias, they had a Kenya Nyeri which was really beautiful. A little unique, with some really delicate strawberry and peach flavors. I unfortunately roasted through all 10lbs I had bought so I may get another 10. I'd highly recommend it

I had some of that Nyeri peaberry and the Nyeri Hill also. I ended up not waiting to hear back and just got the filters I needed and saw two Ethiopian Yirga Cheffe Dry Process coffees so I picked up 2# of each: Aricha and Gedeb Asasa. I also picked up a couple pouches of roasted coffee from George Howell that will give me a break from roasting.

I used the Kalita brewer again this AM with some Maui Mokka beans I had forgotten I bought on my summer trip. Yeah, they are probably stale and over roasted. Anyways, I busted out the Refractometer and had about a 4 minute pour over with 482g water and 30 grams of grounds. I ended up overshooting my target %TDS (1.30) with an actual 1.48, which computes to a hair over (or is it hare over?) 21% extraction. It seems far easier to overextract than underextract. I clicked my grinder down a notch and will repeat the same dose tomorrow. Shoot for the same extraction time of 4 minutes- change one variable at a time. Maybe 4 minutes is too long for a pour over brew method.

For my new years resolution, I'd like to try to dabble a bit more in programming. If I was any good at programming, I'd get the Artisan code and program PID functionality into it. Maybe ask a friend of mine if he could do. Seems my curve programming and tracing plan isn't going to work as I had desired without getting under the hood of my roaster, and not entirely sure I want to do that.. (yet anyway).

TD

Edit- Tuesday morning brew one coarse click down on grinder. 4:00 brew time (shorter by about 1:00) same amount of water. Didn't measure the total beverage weight for complete accuracy, but left the same as yesterday. More importantly, %TDS 1.33 which roughly (since I didn't measure mass of brewed coffee cause I am in a hurry and forgot to tare my Yeti rambler) corresponds to 19.5% extraction. Will see how it tastes comparatively.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Well the wife and I just closed on a house. Coming from a condo, it's a big big improvement in space and opportunities. For me, it's an opportunity for me to do more of what I love: brew beer, roast coffee, and play the guitar (loud).

The house has a heated/cooled Four-Seasons room which we honestly have no idea what to do with (we are just about doubling/tripling our living area from how we've lived the last 5.5 years, so we are going to have to figure out how to use extra space). I jokingly suggested to the wife I could use the Four Seasons room as a coffee roasting room, and hook up a duct through the window for roaster exhaust. Much to my surprise, she didn't fight it.

Fast forward two days, and she's told me that will be my roasting area. I've got to tell ya, it's been a whirlwind of a week as a married guy: first she gives espresso machine permission, THEN she let's me have my own room for roasting. What's next? Do I push her for a pizza brick oven for the patio?

 

[TallDan]

Well the wife and I just closed on a house. Coming from a condo, it's a big big improvement in space and opportunities. For me, it's an opportunity for me to do more of what I love: brew beer, roast coffee, and play the guitar (loud).

The house has a heated/cooled Four-Seasons room which we honestly have no idea what to do with (we are just about doubling/tripling our living area from how we've lived the last 5.5 years, so we are going to have to figure out how to use extra space). I jokingly suggested to the wife I could use the Four Seasons room as a coffee roasting room, and hook up a duct through the window for roaster exhaust. Much to my surprise, she didn't fight it.

Fast forward two days, and she's told me that will be my roasting area. I've got to tell ya, it's been a whirlwind of a week as a married guy: first she gives espresso machine permission, THEN she let's me have my own room for roasting. What's next? Do I push her for a pizza brick oven for the patio?

Congrats! And don't worry, you'll find ways to fill extra space very easily.