US05 not starting. How long can wort sit?

Trails_n_Ales · Apr 16, 2017

I brewed a batch on Thursday, it's now Sunday with no signs of fermentation. It's Easter Sunday so my LhBs is closed. I plan to repitch another packet so just wondering how long the wort can sit without going bad? I will be picking up a packet tomorrow (Monday) so it would be sitting for 4 days.

Yooper · Apr 16, 2017

If your sanitation was good, it should be fine. Is it in a bucket or a carboy? No krausen at all? not even a tiny bit?

Trails_n_Ales · Apr 16, 2017

Nothing at all. It's completely still. Not one bubble on the surface. This is my first time rehydrating yeast and I think I may have made an error. I didn't cool the rehydrated yeast down to wort temp. I pitched it at about 85 degrees onto 70 degree wort. Maybe this killed the viable yeast?

Turkeyshot · Apr 16, 2017

Trails_n_Ales said:
Nothing at all. It's completely still. Not one bubble on the surface. This is my first time rehydrating yeast and I think I may have made an error. I didn't cool the rehydrated yeast down to wort temp. I pitched it at about 85 degrees onto 70 degree wort. Maybe this killed the viable yeast?

I don't think that would have done your yeast in at all. I have pitched at similar temps and have never had a problem. How old was your yeast or how was the packet stored? Better yet how was it stored where you purchased it from?

Lefou · Apr 16, 2017

A freshly pitched 11.5gram packet of viable Safale US-05 should never take four days to start fermenting. I've found it's a pretty vigorous yeast and a simple starter done right will do two things.
It will verify if our yeast is good AND get them energized to ferment.

Put about .5 liters of your wort in a sanitized measuring cup or Mason jar. Dump about half the packet of US-05 in. Stir, cover, and wait an hour at room temperature. If the treated wort has a white froth and small bubbles, congratulations, your yeast is good and you've made a simple starter.
It's safe to pitch that starter along with the remaining dry yeast.
I've put good US-05 in pasteurized apple juice without a starter and had it start fizzing away in a few hours. Apple juice is more acidic than beer wort and I suspect your yeast was weak when you got it.

Trails_n_Ales · Apr 16, 2017

I purchased it from a pretty reputable homebrew store and stored the packet in my fridge for a couple weeks at 40 degrees. I let it sit out all day before brewing in the evening at 70 degree ambient temp. I'm mainly worried about losing my wort after sitting this long. I'm pretty thorough with my sanitation so I think I should be ok. I did open the lid to the fermenter several times to check on activity.

Trails_n_Ales · Apr 16, 2017

Expiration was sometime in 2018 as well.

Calder · Apr 16, 2017

You pitched the yeast Thursday. No Karusen ring? That would be the tell-tale sign as to whether fermentation had occurred.

Take a gravity reading to confirm.

Unusual that a fresh pack did not work.

4 days is a long time. I've left wort souring for a week at 100 F before pitching yeast and not had a problem. Really depends on your sanitation.

I once panicked that yeast did not work after a few days. I had set up a new blow-off to try and harvest any blow-off as usable yeast. The rig had a leak so I didn't see any activity. I even contacted the yeast supplier to see if they had a problem with the yeast batch ...... Everything turned out OK and fermentation was complete in 3 days.

kh54s10 · Apr 16, 2017

What time on Thursday did you pitch, if late you are only a little over 2 days. I haven't had any take that long but it is not long enough to say that you really have a problem.

What temperature is the wort at right now. Mid sixties would be good. You might warm it up to 68 or so if it is low.

Trails_n_Ales · Apr 16, 2017

I saw no Krausen ring or any signs of any activity. Didn't bother with a gravity reading. I did shake it a little bit to see if that gets it going. I pitched at 10pm on Thursday eve. I originally had it at 62 ambient temp in my basement but since moved it upstairs at 68 ambient temp.

Trails_n_Ales · Apr 17, 2017

UPDATE. I shook the fermenter vigorously yesterday to see if I could get something going. Checked this morning and saw a nice krausen forming.

Lefou · Apr 17, 2017

Now comes the hard part. Ignoring the temptation to mess with the ferment for two weeks.
LOL

tpoulsen · Apr 17, 2017

I was just about to post a question about my New England IPA showing no signs of fermentation after 8 days (after pitching a second packet of yeast at day 4). I guess I'll try the vigorous shake.

kh54s10 · Apr 17, 2017

tpoulsen said:
I was just about to post a question about my New England IPA showing no signs of fermentation after 8 days (after pitching a second packet of yeast at day 4). I guess I'll try the vigorous shake.

There is something seriously wrong here. I could see not getting anything from one but unlikely with 2 different pitches.

Gravity before and after first pitch?
Gravity now?
Expiration date on the yeast?
Starter or rehydrated?
Temperature when pitched?
Temperature now?

Don't shake it before you take a gravity reading. If you had fermentation and didn't see it, shaking will oxidize your beer.

tpoulsen · Apr 18, 2017

In my case, I think my brew bucket doesn't seal well. I just measured the gravity and it was at 1.021 (target was 1.022) so fermentation is done. There's a bit of residue around the rim. So, it must have been blowing out gases around the rim instead of through the airlock!

SchmuBrew · Apr 20, 2017

I had a similar issue with US05. It bubbled for a day then quit. There was a bit of sediment at the bottom and a 1/4" of krausen/foam on top, but zero activity.
I waited a week then transferred it to a carboy (along with a lot of the bottom sediment and top foam). After a few more days of non activity I gave the carboy a gentle swirl. The small amount of krausen fell and the batch took off. It's been chugging along for about 4 days now with a lot of visible activity.
Kind of stumped ?

quid_non · Apr 20, 2017

SchmuBrew said:
I had a similar issue with US05. It bubbled for a day then quit. There was a bit of sediment at the bottom and a 1/4" of krausen/foam on top, but zero activity.
I waited a week then transferred it to a carboy (along with a lot of the bottom sediment and top foam). After a few more days of non activity I gave the carboy a gentle swirl. The small amount of krausen fell and the batch took off. It's been chugging along for about 4 days now with a lot of visible activity.
Kind of stumped ?

Indeed interesting- Also pitched US05 in a pale ale recently. Rehydrated packet to ~1cup previously boiled water (let temp cool to ~90 F before adding yeast) swirlws well then let the yeast solution sit for ~60 min at room temp. Pitched to wort @ OG=1.052, temp=75 F. Wort was aerated with Oxygen/diffuser stone for ~2 min prior to pitch. FWIW Safeale US05, lot 21866 077 1602 (exp 03/2018) purchased form reputable homebrew store stored fridge temp until use. Guess I will swirl the carboy vigorously to see if that get's any action...

eric19312 · Apr 20, 2017

My normal experience with US05 packets is they take about 2 days to lift a decent krausen. I rehydrate but don't do a starter or oxygenate with fresh packs. I find second generation pitches start faster if I use a substantial pitch (say 1+ cup of very fresh yeast+trub per 5 gallon batch). I know there is some debate about the cell count in US05 packs with some sources claiming 200 billion (thus 1 pack is plenty for most normal strength beers) but others point to the data sheet from Safale and say substantially less (the data sheet says 66 billion).

Looking at the Safale data sheet the recommended pitch is 50-80 grams/hectoliter
A 5.5 gallon batch is 0.45/hl so the recommended pitch rate from Safale is 23-36 grams for 5.5 gallon batch...
This is 2-3 packets of yeast per batch depending on (label doesn't say but I assume depending on wort strength)

I have been perfectly happy with my batches which took 2 days to get rocking and rolling with this yeast when used at rate of 2 packets in 11 gallons of 1.054 wort. But US-05 is cheap and I am now thinking to do a higher pitch next batch.

quid_non · Apr 21, 2017

Thanks Eric - good historic information for me. I'll relax, have a brew and be patient :mug:

.
Interesting info about pitch rate. Back to the OP question - -wondering if 2-3 day w/o fermenting has any "ill" effects on the wort assuming no bacterial contamination, of course?

quid_non · Apr 22, 2017

Good News - - all is well US05 finally woke up and is really chomping up those sugars now = lots of activity...

kh54s10 · Apr 22, 2017

Interesting. I use one pack of US05, rehydrated quite frequently and always have good action by the next morning. I have never had one stall. I find US05 to be one of the yeasts that always start and ferment easily.

ericbw · Apr 22, 2017

eric19312 said:
My normal experience with US05 packets is they take about 2 days to lift a decent krausen. I rehydrate but don't do a starter or oxygenate with fresh packs. I find second generation pitches start faster if I use a substantial pitch (say 1+ cup of very fresh yeast+trub per 5 gallon batch). I know there is some debate about the cell count in US05 packs with some sources claiming 200 billion (thus 1 pack is plenty for most normal strength beers) but others point to the data sheet from Safale and say substantially less (the data sheet says 66 billion).

Looking at the Safale data sheet the recommended pitch is 50-80 grams/hectoliter
A 5.5 gallon batch is 0.45/hl so the recommended pitch rate from Safale is 23-36 grams for 5.5 gallon batch...
This is 2-3 packets of yeast per batch depending on (label doesn't say but I assume depending on wort strength)

I have been perfectly happy with my batches which took 2 days to get rocking and rolling with this yeast when used at rate of 2 packets in 11 gallons of 1.054 wort. But US-05 is cheap and I am now thinking to do a higher pitch next batch.

Great Erics think alike.

When I use a new pack of US-05, I wrong my hands for a couple of days thinking it's dead. Then it takes off. It doesn't take that long with saved yeast, whether I use a starter or not.

It's just a slow starter. I think during that time, it's reproducing and outcompeting any bacteria that might be there.

Lefou · Apr 22, 2017

tpoulsen said:
I was just about to post a question about my New England IPA showing no signs of fermentation after 8 days (after pitching a second packet of yeast at day 4). I guess I'll try the vigorous shake.

I've done this with mead ... not a vigorous shake to solve a lagging ferment.
Agitating the still active yeast somewhat in higher gravity brews pushes off dissolved CO2 and helps extend the fermentation.

With beer wort, I'll usually do the vigorous shake and get the wort foaming before pitching yeast. The ONLY time I've eve had issues with yeast lag is when it's pitched into high gravity musts or worts.

whovous · Apr 22, 2017

Do you oxygenate with a wand before pitching? I do, and I usually see activity in under twelve hours almost regardless of the yeast.

kh54s10 · Apr 22, 2017

If you guys that are not getting US05 to finish and you vigorously shake, you are really risking oxidizing your beer, if fermentation has started. Try a gentle swirl to rouse the yeast that have settled to the bottom. Don't vigorously shake unless you have taken a gravity reading and you have had NO fermentation.

ThirstyPawsHB · Apr 22, 2017

Haven't read threw this whole thread, but I had same issue when I converted over to a plate chiller. Realized I was wasn't allowing enough wort to drain out before placing hose into bucket. Ergo a bunch of Starsan went into the primary bucket causing..umm, some issues. It's the only time i've haven't had 05 to work..

kh54s10 · Apr 22, 2017

PianoMan said:
Haven't read threw this whole thread, but I had same issue when I converted over to a plate chiller. Realized I was wasn't allowing enough wort to drain out before placing hose into bucket. Ergo a bunch of Starsan went into the primary bucket causing..umm, some issues. It's the only time i've haven't had 05 to work..

IDK, unless the chiller was FULL of Starsan I can't see that being the cause of the problem. The Starsan should be diluted to almost nothing in a batch of beer.

ThirstyPawsHB · Apr 22, 2017

kh54s10 said:
IDK, unless the chiller was FULL of Starsan I can't see that being the cause of the problem. The Starsan should be diluted to almost nothing in a batch of beer.

I never had a problem before and after letting the wort drain for 15sec out of the chiller prior to inserting to bucket, haven't had a problem since. Nothing else changed, so figured that had to be it.

kh54s10 · Apr 23, 2017

PianoMan said:
I never had a problem before and after letting the wort drain for 15sec out of the chiller prior to inserting to bucket, haven't had a problem since. Nothing else changed, so figured that had to be it.

I guess it could be but that should be very little Starsan when mixed in with the wort.

US05 not starting. How long can wort sit?

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