Brooklyn Brew Shop's Dandelion Gruit - Tips and Advice

The next beer that I will be brewing is a Dandelion Gruit, from Brooklyn Brew Shop.



As with all of my "Tips and Advice" threads, this will be a running account of the experience and the things that I learn during the process.

As usual, I'll start with the particulars:

Informational link:

http://brooklynbrewshop.com/beer-making-mixes/dandelion-gruit-mix

Instructions:

http://brooklynbrewshop.com/directions/Brooklyn_Brew_Shop_Dandelion_Gruit_Instructions.pdf

Gruit is an ancient style of beer that was in wide use before hops became popular. In gruits, herbs, spices and other flavourings were used as bittering agents to balance the malts. You can read more about gruit here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruit

With this gruit, dandelion leaves fill the role of bittering agent, along with lemon peel and black peppercorns. I had toyed with the idea of using long pepper or grains of paradise in place of the peppercorns - and even ordered some; however, they appear to have disappeared, which is not unusual in my house, where the kids are always into my stuff. If I find them, I will use them; if not, then maybe next time.

I happen to have the recipe for this one; if anybody is interested in trying it, please shoot me a PM. I am reluctant to post it on the open forum as it is not "my" recipe.

Brew Day is planned for tonight or tomorrow night, which means that I will be lucky to get it done this weekend. I will of course post notes, observations and lessons learned as they happen.

As noted above, the "instructions" call for dandelion leaves, lemon peel and black peppercorns to use as bittering agents for the gruit. I got to thinking that grains of paradise or long pepper might be good/interesting substitutes for the black peppercorns.

Can anyone with experience offer some feedback on this? Would I be better off sticking with the black peppercorns, or would one of the proposed substitutions make it more "interesting" and true to the gruit concept?

If so, I'll order some again, then put this project on hold and brew something else while waiting for the arrival.

Thanks in advance for the feedback -

Ron

Some good information from Member Giraffe:

Giraffe said:

Well I cant speak to that recipe as its outside the realm of what i usually make, but in general grains of paradise are milder with a less phenolic peppery taste and a floral element. I really like them over black pepper in spiced belgian styles, they are overall milder and blend in more.

Click to expand...

I did order some long pepper and grains of paradise. I should be receiving them soon, and am looking forward to seeing how they are. The Dandelion Gruit calls for about a tablespoon (maybe a little more) of black peppercorns. I am thinking of substituting with half grains of paradise and half long pepper, which looks to have an interesting profile. Based on what little I know, both spices would fit in well with the gruit and be relevant to the time period in which gruits had their heyday.

I also have mugwort and elderflowers available to me - would anyone have any thoughts about adding a small amount of either of those, as well? I am unsure as to what they would do to the flavor profile, but they would also be relevant to that time period. Any guidance or suggestions would be appreciated.

More as it happens, etc. &c.

Ron

Some good information from member Juno Malone:

Juno Malone said:

DO NOT go overboard on grains of paradise - it's VERY easy to do. 2-3g (yes, grams) per 5 gallon batch is enough.

Click to expand...

I will keep this in mind, and be sure not to go overboard with any additions. I have a digital scale that measures in fairly small quantities, so this shouldn't be a problem.

My grains of paradise and long pepper arrive today, so I'll be brewing my gruit tonight. I'll be conservative with the grains of paradise and the long pepper, and try to keep good records. As for the mugwort and elderflowers, I'll crack them open and take a look at them, and decide then whether or not to add them; if I do, I'll be conservative with those, as well.

Now that I think of it, I believe I also have some coriander seeds - but I don't want to over-do it....

Usually I follow a recipe straight the first time, but with this one, it just feels like an opportunity to experiment a bit. With luck we might have some interesting stuff.

After doing a little reading, here are my "best guesses" for adding some of these spices to 1 gallon of gruit (or any beer, I suppose). These numbers are based on doing some conversions from a few 5-gallon recipes I found.

Cinnamon stick - 1 at beginning of boil

Long pepper - 11.4g (substituting for a nearly equivalent measure of black peppercorns, or combining 50/50) (45 minutes left in boil)

Grains of paradise - 0.4g (15 minutes left in boil)
Coriander seed - 1.4g (15 minutes left in boil)
Allspice berries - 1g (15 minutes left in boil)

Mugwort - 7.5g (5 minutes left in boil)
Elderflowers - 8.5g (5 minutes left in boil)

These are just estimates, but hopefully they will be useful. Also, from what I can see, there's no reason NOT to use them together, so maybe I will.

Today is BrewDay (only a week or so late!), so here we go. I'll keep a record, report on results, etc. &c....

Wanting to take a rather conservative approach to my radical addition of stuff, I've smelled/tasted the herbs and spices and have decided to go with these amounts for this first brew:

7 dandelion leaves (beginning of boil)*
1 cinnamon stick (beginning of boil)

Black peppercorns - 5g (45 minutes left in boil)*
Long pepper - 5g (45 minutes left in boil)

1 lemon peel*
Grains of paradise - 0.4g (10 minutes left in boil)
Coriander seed - 1g (10 minutes left in boil)
Allspice berries - 1g (10 minutes left in boil)

Mugwort - 5g (5 minutes left in boil)
Elderflowers - 5g (5 minutes left in boil)

*Called for in original recipe (twice as many black peppercorns used in original recipe)

Note - the mash went well for the most part. I was above my range for a couple of minutes, but hopefully this did not adversely affect the beer too much.

Interesting note - these grains (and the wort they produced) seem to have a bit of lemony quality to them, without any additives. Looking at the grains in the recipe (Belgian Pilsner and White Wheat), I'm not sure why, but it is quite pleasant.

I am beginning the boil now - more later....

I took a few photos with this brew. I apologise for the cell phone pictures, but we haven't gotten a new camera yet.

Here are the dandelion leaves, lemon anf black peppercorns (I cut the amount of peppercorns in half in order to use the long pepper:



Here is the cinnamon stick along with the lemon peel:



The dandelion leaves and cinnamon stick were added at the beginning of the boil. The lemon peel was added with 10 minutes left in the boil.

Here are half the black peppercorns with an equal amount of long pepper:



These were added 15 minutes into the boil.

Here are the grains of paradise, coriander seed and allspice berries:



I added them, along with the lemon peel, with 10 minutes left in the boil.

Finally, here are the mugwort and the elderflowers:



These were added with 5 minutes left in the boil.

The boil went well enough; I was a a couple of minutes late with one addition, but extended the boil time by the same amount to compensate.

It's cooling down in the ice bath now.

Alright, everything is finished; the yeast has been pitched and the wort is tucked safely away in my closet, there to begin it's fermentation in the neighbourhood of 68 degrees.

i snatched a wee sample of the wort, and it is interesting for sure. There's almost no bitterness, but there is a little, and the spices seem to come through very well. Time will tell, once fermentation is complete and the gruit has been bottled, but I think this might turn out pretty well.

I made this from a pre-packaged mix, but I also have the recipe for this gruit from BBS's book, MAKE SOME BEER. The closest LHBS is 250 miles away, so it's easier just to get the mixes sometimes. I highly recommend this book, along with their first book, BEER BREWING BOOK. Both books have dozens of creative and interesting recipes, each written for 1 or 5 gallons.

If anyone would like to try this recipe, shoot me a PM or an email, and I can send it over (it's in pdf format). With dandelions in full swing, now's the time!

I swapped out the blow-off tube for an air lock today. Things are looking pretty good with this and I do have reason to hope.

The spices are coming through in a subtle way - noticeable but not too much. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

Ambient temperatures were a little low, so I bumped them up a bit.

Even if you are not getting a lot of comments I just wanted to say I find this very interesting. I hope it turns out well.

Hi, Northbank, and thanks for the feedback. I tend to use the forum as a "brewing log," keeping a record of what I do and anything that I learn from the brew. I figure it's a good way to have records as well as to get input from anyone else. Plus, if someone else is thinking about trying it, hopefully these notes will help.

I usually go at lest three weeks after BrewDay before bottling, and will probably do the same in this case. With our temperatures being higher now that spring is in full swing up here, there aren't any worries that fermentation might still be taking place.

It makes a lot of sense, I'm waiting on an IPA to ferment and be bottled and I'm just itching to brew something ... somehow reading your notes, well it helps #Methodone

I'm interested in how this comes out. Gruit is not I style I care for, but always like seeing something different. I like BBS, I have one of their recipe books, can't remember which one off the top of my head.

Hi, Zekk - I'll definitely post updates as they happen, and will try to get a photo or two in here somewhere as well.

As a food historian, I find this gruit concept pretty interesting. As someone who spends a lot of time each week mowing down dandelions, I find a certain level of poetic justice in this particular gruit. It's a win/win all-around!

Here is a label that I put together for this gruit -



I usually allow 3 weeks total for fermentation; we're about halfway through that time period now, and I expect to bottle this gruit the weekend after this one. I checked on it this morning and it is looking good; smelling good and hopefully turning into something really special.

More as it happens, etc. &c....

Ron

northbank said:

even if you are not getting a lot of comments i just wanted to say i find this very interesting. I hope it turns out well.

Click to expand...

+ 1

Many thanks, guys - I am still learning the craft, so to speak, and I definitely appreciate the feedback ~

Last night, 8 June, I put this brew in to cold-crash. I'll bottle it sometime this weekend.

It looked and smelled pretty good, so we'll see what we end up with!

I bottled my Dandelion Gruit today, 12 June. For this 1-gallon batch, I got 9 bottles, which seems to be about the norm.

I had just enough left over for a small sample, and I was eager to see how this ancient beer with no hops would taste. Keeping in mind that this is not the final flavour of the gruit (time in the bottle does change it, as it carbonates, develops and matures), I was both surprised and a little pleased with what I had. The gruit definitely had a fresh, tart aspect to it; almost a sourness, but in a lemony way that is to be expected, due to the ingredients used. The extra spices that I added did not seem very prevalent, but I am guessing that they will come forward over time. I did smell the spices in the beer, but they were subtle. The dandelion leaves were also subtle, but I am guessing that they will come forward as the gruit develops.

Conclusion: So far, it is certainly different, and decidedly refreshing. It just might be the thing for a hot summer day - we'll see in a couple of weeks!

Note to self: I used my "B" caps for this brew.

Well, I was able to sample this on Sunday, 26 June. It is still very, very young, but it was interesting and different, in a good way. The bottom line is that this is very much something that a person could enjoy on a hot, sunny summer day after mowing the lawn or perhaps out at the lake, which I believe is the intent of the recipe.

I'll post more details as I can - this sampling was a bit rushed, so I'm just putting down general impressions here. There wasn't much of a head, and it didn't last long; perhaps the lack of hops might have something to do with this? Carbonation was quite lively - making this a fairly effervescent beverage. I think it was fairly clear, with a slight haze, but don't hold me to that until my next sampling. Aroma was a little strange, but not unpleasant. Perhaps herby, grassy and definitely lemony. If there was any spice in the aroma, it was very subtle, but there may have been a bare whiff there.

The taste was something that really made this memorable. In spite of having only a single lemon peel in the entire gallon of beer, this gruit was very lemony, to the point of being almost sour. I liked it for what it was, but it is definitely something that one wouldn't expect. I recall while brewing this beer that the mash itself had a slight lemony quality; the only two grains are Belgian Pilsner and White Wheat, so one of them must have a bit of a citrusy characteristic. In any case, this was amplified quite a bit by the lemon peel. I expected some bitterness, both from the lemon peel and the dandelion leaves, but there really wasn't much. It is there but only in a very subtle way. Most - if not nearly all - of the balance against the sweet malts comes from the sourness of the lemon. The spices that I added were present, but very subtly and in the back - coming through just a bit in the finish.

I am not sure how this gruit will develop as it ages, but I am interested in finding out. I am guessing that the spices might come forward a bit more, but I don't know whether or not the lemon will back off. Even if it doesn't, I think this is a pretty good thing. Once the "shock" of the lemon wears off after the first sip, this gruit is kind of addicting. I have always been a fan of Mike's hard lemonade; but this, in my opinion, has much more character and is far more...genuine.

All-in-all, a it is a good summer experience, and I could easily see myself brewing more for next year. If someone keeps in mind the original purpose of this gruit, and why it is the way it is, I think they could really enjoy it, either as per the original recipe, or with my slight modifications. As noted above, I do have the recipe, so if anyone is brave enough to try this, shoot a PM to me and I will get it to you.

I'll post more impressions on this gruit as I sample more in the future, and might also try to get a photo of the finished beer, as well.

Ron

I also got to thinking that a shot of raspberry, strawberry or (fill in the blank) syrup might be an interesting addition to this; sort of like adding a shot of woodruff to a Berlinner Weisse. It would have the effect of balancing out the sour from the lemon, but would also add a touch of summer sunshine, as with flavoured lemonades.

I'll probably give it a try with chokecherry, raspberry or possibly bullberry (aka buffaloberry) syrup, since those are the home-made syrups that I have on hand.

hey thanks for the report & congrats on the outcome, important thing of course is you enjoyed the challenge! very cool

Hi, SDS, and thanks for the feedback. This was a fun one with good results. If a person goes into it with an open mind and a sense of adventure, it can really be interesting, I think.

The substitutions and additions that I added were "mostly" available back in the day. A couple of them might be relatively modern (from the New World), but it was still a very interesting thing to try. The Wikipedia article that I posted in the OP contains other suggestions, as well.

Of course, a person could simply go with the recipe as-written, and have a really nice gruit, as well. From what I can see, almost anything goes!

I tried another one of these a few nights ago, to see how it is coming along. It is still quite tart, which is not a bad thing at all on a hot summer day, and I'd have to say that it is pretty darn refreshing.

The only negative is that the spice additions that I tried are simply too subtle - I think if I do any spice additions next time, I should just pick one or two, and then add a little more of them. Also, there is no head at all to speak of, just a brif scrim of white when I pour it that quickly dissipates. Not a huge deal, but something I might try to improve on next time.

Having said that, I am definitely a fan of this one, and love the concept behind it.

hi there,

Realize this is an older thread, but I just bottled this same kit today. I did not add additional spices, but used watercress instead of Dandelion. Sampling today I find mine to be quite sour. Looking at OPs pics I notice he used the whole lemon peel and I just took thin zest off the top ( none of the white pith) I wonder if that lead to a lack of bittering agents in the brew. It wasn't unpleasant but I'm hoping some of the flavor mellows and gets more balanced as it conditions in the bottle. Per many suggestions I used dextrose priming sugar and a priming calculator rather than the 3 tbsp honey that BBS recommends ( way way too much)

Hi, r4dyce - glad you tried this!

I'll try to address a few of your questions on your post. These are based on my experience and/or reading only, rather than any expertise.

I did not add additional spices, but used watercress instead of Dandelion.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a good substitute ~ looking forward to seeing how it develops.

Sampling today I find mine to be quite sour.

Click to expand...

I found out later on after I finished this batch that the sourness is simply a hallmark of this mix, and of most gruits in general. My reading indicated that the lack of hops is the primary contributor to the sourness; I don't know the science behind it, but considering the lack of any "sour" component, other than the single lemon of course, it makes sense.

Looking at OPs pics I notice he used the whole lemon peel and I just took thin zest off the top ( none of the white pith) I wonder if that lead to a lack of bittering agents in the brew.

Click to expand...

It's possible - I considered zesting the peel only, but ultimately decided to use the whole peel in order to provide some bittering. For what it's worth, I didn't find much bitterness itself in the gruit, in spite of the lemon peel and dandelion greens. When I make this again, I plan to double the greens and possibly double the lemon peel.

It wasn't unpleasant but I'm hoping some of the flavor mellows and gets more balanced as it conditions in the bottle.

Click to expand...

The flavours do balance out a bit, but the sourness just seems to be a part of the gruit experience, based on my reading and experience with this recipe.

Per many suggestions I used dextrose priming sugar and a priming calculator rather than the 3 tbsp honey that BBS recommends ( way way too much)

Click to expand...

I enjoy using honey as a priming sugar (or maple syrup, or whatever, as the recipe calls for), but I agree that BBS's recommendation of 3 tablespoons is way too much. I've found best results using between 1.5 and 2 tablespoons per gallon, depending on the level of carbonation I am shooting for. It is un-scientific as hell, but I've never been a scientific-type brewer.

Hope this helps! Looking forward to more discussion on the subject. I enjoyed this gruit, especially on hot summer days after mowing the lawn. It is different - and definitely sour - but in a way that grows on you. I shared one with my pastor and she really enjoyed it, as well.

Thanks Tasunka,
The more I think about this, there must be something else is the grain bill besides your typical grains right? Like and herb/spice/ some kind of unusual specialty grain. The more I think about it I noticed right away the dry grains had a lemony flavor/aroma to them, which would be unusual for barley.

I gotta think something else is contributing to the sour notes other than lemon peels, but I could be wrong.

What do you think?

I thought exactly the same thing when I was brewing this gruit. The aroma from the mash was a little lemony, I remember that.

I happen to own both of BBS's books, so I looked, and Dandelion Gruit is included. I checked on the day I brewed this, and the only grains listed are Belgian Pilsner and White Wheat; other than that, it is just dandelion leaves, black peppercorns and a lemon peel.

Just opened my first bottle and wanted to leave my impressions. Crystal clear golden color. Kind of impressed with clarity given that I made it with just a kitchen top mash, ice bath, and no fining agents.
No head to speak of at all. Perhaps a tad undercarbed but not detrimental.
Taste: Aggressively sour. Aroma and taste of lemons. Some faint yeasty floral/fruity notes. Not bad at all. Drinkable but definitely lacks balance. If I were to brew again I would try adding more herbs/different herbs, maybe some additional spices too. It's a " thumbs up" brew, but can definitely be improved upon, comes off very one note sour lemon. I think you'd almost get a shandy effect if you mixed it with a wheat beer or maybe a kolsch. Style Might also be out of season too and I recognize it might be better experienced on a hot summer day to cut through some BBQ or burgers.

I'd also say I'm surprised at the level of sour achieved without any "souring" . And I don't believe I've gotten any infection. Everything looks/smells great. No odd sediments. I think it's just how this turned out.

Hey -

It sounds like yours went exactly as mine, except mine was a hair over-carbed.

From what I've learned from reading, the flavor and tartness are exactly as to be expected due to the fact that it is a gruit with no hops. I believe this also accounts for the lack of any real head, too.

Very tart, yet refreshing - good for a hot summer day - but it is in your face, to say the least. To my knowledge, it came out the way it is supposed to.