Opinions on malt mill designs

Hi!

There are a lot of options when it comes to malt mills. I myself own a monster mill three roller that I motorized with the motor from a cheap meat grinder. It works very well, so I really have no reason to complain. Except...
Even though my setup would be considered 'compact' comparing to some of the sheave setups around, I still think it is too big and too heavy. I'd like cleanup to be easier.

Reading threads about mills, there seems to be a lot of talk about optimal RPM and throughput. Personally I don't mind if it is slow as <insert random four letter word>, as long as it is compact, light and still produces a decent crush. If I don't need to stand there and hold a drill or whatever, taking an hour to crush a 10 pounds would be fine for me. Why the obsession with a speedy crush? Brewing is not for the inpatient anyway. Slower (lower RPM) means a smaller motor would still produce a lot of torque.

My ideal mill, would probably look something like the old phil mill, but with a connector that fits straight into a meat grinder. You know, like an accessory to that model. It could easily be removed and cleaned. If i had the tools, know-how and time, I'd probably attempt to build it, but since I don't and since I already have a functional mill, I can only dream.

What strikes me though, is that most mills have long rollers (the mattmill kompakt seems pretty cool though) and most are not motorized or have an option to motorize (a drill seems to be the default to use). It seems most mills are 'overkill' on a homebrewing scale.

What do you guys think? What is important for you in a mill? Why aren't there any mills with rollers that are motorized and 'done', that are not semi-industrial?

alphaomega said:

Hi!

Why aren't there any mills with rollers that are motorized and 'done', that are not semi-industrial?

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I have had similar thoughts, on a homebrew scale, a tiny little mill is all you really need, as long as it's automated and self feeding, speed isn't a great concern.

My guess is that it doesn't cost much more to build big and industrial like, and that sells.

The only two things that are important to me are a good crush, and hands free milling. I finally made a mount for my 1/2" drill for unattended milling, so speed is not really a concern any longer.

There is a kitchenaid stand mixer attachment to grind grains, but the amazon reviews say it is not good for brewing.

That, and my wife vetoed me milling grain in the kitchen. Yours might too.

@wilserbrewer nice to hear your input (and that great minds think alike)
I agree that a good crush and 'automatic' operation is key. But I'd really like something that is more the size of a kitchen appliance than furniture
It might be the case, as you say, that it might as well be 'industrial' if it should already be motorized.
But I can't let go of the fact, that my meat grinder cost about 50-60 bucks and it drives my 3 roller mill just fine.
The meat grinding bit just clicks on and you push a button to remove it, so it can be cleaned easily. It would just be so awesome to have a simple mill, that has the same connector. That shouldn't be so hard to do if you have access to a CNC router and some aluminum. It is so simple, I can't believe it doesn't exist

Mer-man said:

There is a kitchenaid stand mixer attachment to grind grains, but the amazon reviews say it is not good for brewing.

That, and my wife vetoed me milling grain in the kitchen. Yours might too.

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Yeah, I know about that, and I know some have tried it with mixed results. Bottom line is, it is not a roller mill...
I don't nedd to mill in the kitchen, I just don't want the mill to take up so much space, and be easier to clean.
I live in northern sweden. I'd rather mill indoors most of the year, but I like to take it outside for cleaning (because of the dust). That is just a pain right now.

alphaomega said:

....but I like to take it outside for cleaning (because of the dust). That is just a pain right now.

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Why the obsession with cleaning your mill constantly? My mill stays dusty within its enclosure and gets cleaned every year or two whether it needs it or not. I doubt commercial operations are blowing the dust out of there mill daily, weekly, or monthly?

alphaomega said:

It is so simple, I can't believe it doesn't exist

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Something like this?

CRankandstein has or perhaps used to offer a very basic small roller mill for $89...motor and mounts up to the end user of course.

alphaomega said:

My ideal mill, would probably look something like the old phil mill, but with a connector that fits straight into a meat grinder.

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I still use a Phil Mill II...and hand crank it. That one might have gone too extreme for what you want and I am pretty sure not many folks will remember that far back. It was a single heavily knurled roller about 3" wide with an adjustable plate. When I did briefly experiment with motorizing it there was little improvement in speed or the level of hands off as it needed that 2-liter bottle top sized restriction to keep from being overloaded and binding. Making a hopper bigger than 3# would be extremely complex.

I am guessing by the rest of your post you would rather not tinker but are fully capable of doing so. If you decide to indulge in tinkering it really sounds like motorizing a Corona style mill might fit your needs. The "Ugly Junk" modifications that many have made allow the whole thing to nest inside its own bucket more or less.

@AnOldUR: I've seen that before (in the motorized grain mill thread). Very sweet setup, but still pretty hefty.

@Onkel_Udo: Cool Of what I can gather from the web, the phil mill works pretty well and is very compact. I like that. Still the mattmill kompact might be a better 'start' for my idea.

Just to give you an idea of what I'm thinking here...
This is (sort of) the type of grinder I have:


This is how the grinder attaches to the motor:


If one could construct an adapter that make the shaft from the mill look like that...

alphaomega said:

@AnOldUR: I've seen that before (in the motorized grain mill thread). Very sweet setup, but still pretty hefty.

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Yeah, still hefty, but about as minimalist as you can get and still be free standing.

alphaomega said:

If one could construct an adapter that make the shaft from the mill look like that...

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I thought about doing a short production run of my design, but finding an affordable gear motor was difficult. Never considered making an adapter to a meat grinder and let the buyer purchase that separate.

So, you'd rather see a smaller mill (shorter rollers) with a plate that sits on a bucket? No stand?

AnOldUR said:

Yeah, still hefty, but about as minimalist as you can get and still be free standing.

I thought about doing a short production run of my design, but finding an affordable gear motor was difficult. Never considered making an adapter to a meat grinder and let the buyer purchase that separate.

So, you'd rather see a smaller mill (shorter rollers) with a plate that sits on a bucket? No stand?

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I agree, and I must say I really like your design. Very clean. I'm sure there would be buyers for that.

Ideally, I'd like a smaller (shorter) mill that just 'plugs' into the grinder motor, just like the meat grinding auger. Free standing. Just place the motor on a stool, with the mill part over a bucket and go. When done, just pop the mill off the motor, go out and brush it off.
It takes me about 10 minutes with this motor to do normal 5gallon batch. If it takes 15 or 20 with a shorter mill, doesn't matter. A large funnel (which I happen to have), is sufficient as a hopper. I need to refill more or less constantly during the run, which is fine by me, as I don't need to stand there holding a drill

Please do move forward with your experiment but I do believe your goals are a bit...muddled. That meat grinder base is substantial. If you goal is compactness and hands off operation, the motor, mill and hopper really would be better off as a stand-alone unit. Alternatively, if you already have the "motor" like that meat grinder that you want serve a second purpose, the unit will be inherently less compact but it would also be a worth goal.

If you can find a suitable power supply a 12V low RPM (27-50 rpm no-load) gear reduction motor might be the key. A large wiper motor from a van or pickup comes to mind. I would say the gear reduction starter motor but most are not designed for the extended operation required to mill 10-30# of grain. Also for AC consider coffee burr grinder motors.

Also, consider making the hopper two nesting pieces.

Just food for thought.

@Onkel_Udo: Thanks for your input! I will propably not move forward myself (as I don have the tools and time + the already functioning setup I have). I started the thread mainly to went my frustration with the current options on the market and see if there weren't others with similar ideas.
I do like those meat grinder motors, they are pretty compact and has good grunt and decent RPM. And they're cheap and available. I think it would be a very clean solution to just be able to snap a malt mill 'accessory' in and go.
With that said, I'm very open to your suggestions. A shorter mill, with a DC geared motor with low RPM, would be really good. As long as the entire thing is compact and not too heavy, I'd buy that in a heartbeat.
Maybe I should just buy a mattmill kompakt and see if I can motorize it and keep it small.

Something like this:

(but that one really isn't as 'clean' a build as I'd like it)