How to make AMAZING IPA

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StopTakingMyUsername

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I've been struggling with this style recently, and it's driving me mad.

I want to make a top notch IPA like the trillium, tree house, hill farmstead, boneyard, cellarmaker, barley browns, etc.

I've been trying all kinds of different hop combinations, late additions, low mash temps, varying yeast pitches/strains, etc.

The big problem I'm having is bittering additions.
My IPAs *ALWAYS* come out either grassy and bitter as hell, or like absolute dirty bong water.
I've been using Columbus, warrior, or hopshot extract, as those are all very commonly used in many IPA recipes (including some I've seen from my favorite breweries).
I've varied the additions from a full oz at the 60, all the way down to literally a "pinch" (maybe 0.1 oz). Doesn't matter. Still disgustingly bitter.

I am strongly considering just NOT doing a bittering addition, but if I am mashing low (say 147 F) and using only late hop (10, 5, whirlpool) and dry hop, then I worry that the beer is just going to be water that smells like hops.

Should I just use a low alpha acid hop like cascade or fuggle?

What am I not getting here?

How do professional breweries crank out these top notch IPAs that still have flavor, but are aggressively hop forward?
 
What malts are you using? What type of water are you using? Lots of variables here that could be causing issues with your finished product.
 
Should mention that I'm doing 5 gal test batches, so all additions I list are based on that.

Look into first wort hopping

I've looked into that, never used it yet.
Are you saying to do FWH instead of a 60 min addition? Or do both and the FWH will mellow out the intensity of the 60 min addition?

and you'd want to use the lower alpha, aromatic hops for the FWH, right? Not the high-alpha bittering ones?

What malts are you using? What type of water are you using? Lots of variables here that could be causing issues with your finished product.


Homebrew store malts. Usually Gambrinus. IPA recipe is usually all 2-row or Pilsner, with under (or just at) 3% honey malt or C60.
I've experimented with rye, maris otter, oats, wheat, and munich as well.

Using city water. I've tried treating with gypsum and balancing Cl/SO4 ratios with other salts. Typically used the targets listed by Tasty McDole for his hoppy beer profile. I've used salts and acidulated malt to keep PH in the 5.4-5.6 range also.

FG always in the 1.008-1.012 range. I usually aim for SG of around 1.060

I've tried a lot. However, I don't necessarily know if those are the culprit. Having an annoyingly bitter, grassy, or bong water-y IPA probably wouldn't be the result of using cheap homebrew store malts and city water, would it?
 
Sounds like it could be water related or tannins. An oz of bittering shouldn't make it ridiculously bitter.
 
I've been struggling with this style recently, and it's driving me mad.

I want to make a top notch IPA like the trillium, tree house, hill farmstead, boneyard, cellarmaker, barley browns, etc.

I've been trying all kinds of different hop combinations, late additions, low mash temps, varying yeast pitches/strains, etc.

The big problem I'm having is bittering additions.
My IPAs *ALWAYS* come out either grassy and bitter as hell, or like absolute dirty bong water.
I've been using Columbus, warrior, or hopshot extract, as those are all very commonly used in many IPA recipes (including some I've seen from my favorite breweries).
I've varied the additions from a full oz at the 60, all the way down to literally a "pinch" (maybe 0.1 oz). Doesn't matter. Still disgustingly bitter.

I am strongly considering just NOT doing a bittering addition, but if I am mashing low (say 147 F) and using only late hop (10, 5, whirlpool) and dry hop, then I worry that the beer is just going to be water that smells like hops.

Should I just use a low alpha acid hop like cascade or fuggle?

What am I not getting here?

How do professional breweries crank out these top notch IPAs that still have flavor, but are aggressively hop forward?


i never Ever use a 60 minute addition the earliest one i make is at the 30 minute mark on 6-ish% beers most of my hopping is done in the last 15 minutes and thats where i get my bitterness from. are you using any software like beer smith to dial in your IBU's, be careful with hop stands also these add a fair bit of bitterness depending on amount time and temp if your doing them. i never go by IBU's in recipes iv come to learn my system and im only shooting for 30 IBU's in beer smith for big beers and down to under 20 IBU's in low abv beers. i know that these numbers give me the bitterness i want in my beers. also dont go to low on your FG i shoot for around 1.016-1.012 for IPA's. yeast can also contribute to bitterness choose a good floccing strain so you dont get yeast bite and let your beers clear up. its all about finding what works for you this is why using other peoples recipes can be tricky as you dont know what system they have. more and more im begging to think hops in the boil are less and less important and dry hoping is king, thats where the bulk of flavour comes from so dont go crazy with your boil additions. i also make a hop tea in water at around 75C and at this to my keg or before bottling. this gives lots of flavour with no bitterness.
 
Maybe consider First Wort Hopping for a smoother bitterness?
Never experienced it personally, but extended dry hopping can result in grassy flavor.
 
Sounds like it could be water related or tannins. An oz of bittering shouldn't make it ridiculously bitter.

Could you explain how it would be water or tannins?

i never Ever use a 60 minute addition the earliest one i make is at the 30 minute mark on 6-ish% beers most of my hopping is done in the last 15 minutes and thats where i get my bitterness from. are you using any software like beer smith to dial in your IBU's, be careful with hop stands also these add a fair bit of bitterness depending on amount time and temp if your doing them. i never go by IBU's in recipes iv come to learn my system and im only shooting for 30 IBU's in beer smith for big beers and down to under 20 IBU's in low abv beers. i know that these numbers give me the bitterness i want in my beers. also dont go to low on your FG i shoot for around 1.016-1.012 for IPA's. yeast can also contribute to bitterness choose a good floccing strain so you dont get yeast bite and let your beers clear up. its all about finding what works for you this is why using other peoples recipes can be tricky as you dont know what system they have. more and more im begging to think hops in the boil are less and less important and dry hoping is king, thats where the bulk of flavour comes from so dont go crazy with your boil additions. i also make a hop tea in water at around 75C and at this to my keg or before bottling. this gives lots of flavour with no bitterness.

Thank you for the thorough response.
I don't really pay attention to IBU honestly, because the bulk of the hops I'm adding are very late in the boil for aromatic purposes. Having said that, I don't think my recipes in beer smith have ever gone above 50-60 IBU, but maybe I should watch that and keep it lower

The yeast I'm using has usually been US-05, although I have used WLP001 and Wyeast British. All have done well, and I didn't pick up a crazy amount of difference, so I've just been using 05 since it's cheap and I have a brick of it.

You are probably right about the finishing gravity, but I feel like Cellarmaker, Boneyard/Barley Browns are making VERY dry IPAs. I was hoping to get something in that ballpark, which is why I kept aiming for a low FG.
Although, having a higher FG would afford more body and 'flavor' to the beer I suppose (would certainly balance out some of the bitterness)
I'm just not a huge fan of sweet IPA, but then again, everyone keeps saying Heady Topper finishes at like 1.016, and that's a pretty good IPA

Maybe consider First Wort Hopping for a smoother bitterness?
Never experienced it personally, but extended dry hopping can result in grassy flavor.

Do you FWH in place of a 60 min addition, or do both?

My dry hop is usually 8-10oz total (of combined varieties) for anywhere from 5-7 days. I haven't noticed a major difference with the extra 2 days unless I'm using a hop like Columbus or Galaxy where it can get grassy. Stuff like Citra, mosaic, centennial, etc... hasn't made much difference letting it go the extra 2 days from what I've seen.
 
Have you tried a smaller dry hop. Like 2-4oz? And do you cold crash to help keep them out of the keg bottle?

And finally, how old are the hops, how are you storing them?
 
Not that it may be the dry hop but 8-10oz for a dry hop seems way over board. Even in a lot of the good clone recipes they may get a 6oz dry hop so maybe that has something to do with it. And if you don't cold crash there's going to be a ton of hop debris floating around and I could see that maybe throwing off grassy flavors just based on the large amount of debris that hanging around from such a large dry hop. I'm sure you've tried it but If you haven't try dry hopping in two separate additions and using a hop sock to contain the debris ip that's if your using and I'm assuming your using pellet hops.
 
Have you tried a smaller dry hop. Like 2-4oz? And do you cold crash to help keep them out of the keg bottle?

And finally, how old are the hops, how are you storing them?

I have. I've tried numerous amounts in the dry hop, and at 2-4 oz total, it was just weak and sad. 8-10oz is the "happy" range where there is a nice, strong aromatic punch of hoppy goodness. I'm happy with the dry hop portion of my IPAs. What I'm lacking is the ability to make one without being grassy or bong water-y. I'm trying to figure out how to create something that is dry and crushable like the Boneyard or Cellarmaker, or super juicy and aromatic like the Tree House or Trillium.
Those are the IPAs I want to be drinking, not the bitter grass/pine/bong bombs.

I can replicate the dry hop/aromatics of these beers, and I'm even more confident in my grain bills for them. I'm just at a loss for what to do in the bittering spectrum.
Sounds like FWH is going to be the answer...

I do cold crash, but I'm sorry, I don't know what a "keg bottle" is. Did you mean keg OR bottle? If so, yes.

Standard process is primary for 2-3 days and then I usually add the dry hops, and let the whole thing sit for another 5-7 so the primary has time to finish while it dry hops. I've also tried doing the primary for a week until stable gravity is reached, and THEN adding the dry hops - but no major difference here, so I figured why waste the extra time.
Cold crash for 1-2 days while force carbonating at around 25-30 psi in the chest freezer (set around 38 F with a 1 degree variance).
If I bottle, I do it off of the keg with a blichmann gun. I've also just poured a sterilized sugar solution into the bucket and bottled from the bucket, but I ventured away from that method because of O2 exposure.
I also use sanke kegs because I'd like to commercially produce one day, and didn't see a point buying cornys for near the same price, when I could learn on sankes. (not that that matters)
 
sorry, didn't answer your other question...
We store the hops in the chest freezer. After use, I squeeze the excess O2 out of the bag and then roll it down and clip it shut.
Or I have them in ziplocs, and I just squeeze the air out and seal.

I dunno if that's the best way to store them, that might be a problem.
 
It seems like you've got a couple things going on. You say you're happy with your 8-10 oz dry hop but you want to get rid of the grassy, bong water effect - that seems to me very likely to be related to the dry hop and not the bittering addition. I know you also say it's too bitter but that seems like a separate issue. Are you sure it's bitter and not tannins? Can you post your water report and an actual recipe with water additions included? How are you measuring pH? Also are you treating for chlorine/choramine? That would usually be more plasticy but still something I would include in troubleshoooting.
 
All my IPA's have an oz or less bittering, many times, FWH and then I start the additions at 20 on down to flameout. I do a generous amount at flameout and sometimes steep for 15-20 minutes.
I try to use 4-6 oz of dry hop and I like to use half at 5 days before packaging and the other half at 3 days. I cold crash then keg.
More and more I'm finding that smaller amounts of bittering and large amounts of late addition are what my taste buds like. I have fun experimenting with all type of hop combos but I understand that hops can really add to the cost of the beer so I try to buy on sale and in large amounts to save a few $$$.
 
Not that it may be the dry hop but 8-10oz for a dry hop seems way over board. Even in a lot of the good clone recipes they may get a 6oz dry hop so maybe that has something to do with it. And if you don't cold crash there's going to be a ton of hop debris floating around and I could see that maybe throwing off grassy flavors just based on the large amount of debris that hanging around from such a large dry hop. I'm sure you've tried it but If you haven't try dry hopping in two separate additions and using a hop sock to contain the debris ip that's if your using and I'm assuming your using pellet hops.

I could see 6oz. Anything under that I've tried has just not been enough for my taste, but I do enjoy extremes. So we may just have a difference in palate there :)

ALL of my hop additions are in a hop spider (paint strainer bag suspended over the kettle and dangling down into the wort)
OR
tied off muslin bags.

I've only thrown the actual hop pellets/leaf directly into the wort/beer once, and it just seemed like more hassle than it was worth.

I feel like our beers have been getting cleaner and cleaner as we get better technically at brewing, so it's rare that an IPA comes out cloudy or still having lots of particles

It seems like you've got a couple things going on. You say you're happy with your 8-10 oz dry hop but you want to get rid of the grassy, bong water effect - that seems to me very likely to be related to the dry hop and not the bittering addition. I know you also say it's too bitter but that seems like a separate issue. Are you sure it's bitter and not tannins? Can you post your water report and an actual recipe with water additions included? How are you measuring pH? Also are you treating for chlorine/choramine? That would usually be more plasticy but still something I would include in troubleshoooting.

How does dry hop lend to grassy bitter taste up front on the palate? I was under the assumption that dry hop was aromatic only, and didn't lend to any taste in the beer...
that's why I assumed it had to be my bittering addition.
(I'm not arguing, please don't take it that way, just genuinely curious)

I don't know if it's a tannin issue. Very well could be. TBH I haven't done much research into tannins at all. I was just under the assumption they created an astringent kind of flavor, like a tea bag or tea soaked wood.
The bitterness I am picking up is certainly a hop bitterness - not astringent, but earthy, grassy, and lingering on the tongue.

I can't post a water report, but here's what I have for our water (it changes, so I don't keep up with it every single time because I have no way to know)
Alk (CaCO3) 43.2
Ca 13.7
Mg 2.88
Na 1.39
Cl 1.42
SO4 3.42
pH 7.79
Hardness 46.4

I don't have my typical salt additions, but this one was listed in Beersmith for a hoppy pale I did:
6.5 g gypsum, 2 g CaCl2, 4 g Epsom and 3.5 mL lactic acid
Ca: 109 Mg: 21 Na: 1 Cl: 47 SO4: 249

That's not necessarily what I always do, just one that I found in my Beersmith profile. The other profiles are in my notebook and not Beersmith.

I've also tried doing a couple IPAs without touching the water at all, or simply adding 1 tbsp of gypsum and nothing else.
Again, minimal differences in flavor impact.

Admittedly, water chemistry is not my strong point. I try studying it, but it is immensely boring and difficult :)

PH is measured with the cheap eTekcity meter from Amazon. It's calibrated, and I double check it often to verify. I leave it in a small bowl of collected runnings, and let it sit at room temp for 30 mins or so until the wort has reached room temp and the PH has stabilized on the meter.

Usually within 5.4-5.8 (I know 5.6 is supposed to be the upper limit)

Would this contribute to noticeable flavor impacts, or would this just destroy efficiency if my mash PH is out of whack?

I don't know anything about chlorine/chloramine, aside from if you have it in your water and use brett, it'll supposedly create medicinal flavors.

I've never tasted anything medicinal in any beer I've brewed, so I never really bothered with it.

All my IPA's have an oz or less bittering, many times, FWH and then I start the additions at 20 on down to flameout. I do a generous amount at flameout and sometimes steep for 15-20 minutes.
I try to use 4-6 oz of dry hop and I like to use half at 5 days before packaging and the other half at 3 days. I cold crash then keg.
More and more I'm finding that smaller amounts of bittering and large amounts of late addition are what my taste buds like. I have fun experimenting with all type of hop combos but I understand that hops can really add to the cost of the beer so I try to buy on sale and in large amounts to save a few $$$.

Do you find a benefit to staggering the dry hop additions like that?
Does it give a more powerful aromatic, or more complexity than just leaving it all in one bag the entire time?
 
Another thing I just thought of...
I read that incorrect sparging can lead to tannins in the beer. We've just been batch sparging with 180 F water. I just pump the water from the HLT over to the MT and stir it all up, then let it sit for 30-45 min and then begin vorlauf.

I don't think 180 F water is too hot, since it doesnt even bring the mash temp up much past 160 most of the time, but I don't know for sure. I could be doing something wrong here...
 
How does dry hop lend to grassy bitter taste up front on the palate? I was under the assumption that dry hop was aromatic only, and didn't lend to any taste in the beer...
that's why I assumed it had to be my bittering addition.
(I'm not arguing, please don't take it that way, just genuinely curious)

Given that our sense of taste is so dependent on our sense of smell I think trying to separate the two is nearly impossible. I'm a hop head but I've never used near that much and am still able to get pretty good in-your-face aroma. What are you doing with your other additions, any hopstands and at what temps? Can we see a recipe?

Chlorine/chloramine can cause off flavors with any beer, not just those fermented with brett. If using city water I'd err on the side of caution and use campden.
 
Another thing I just thought of...
I read that incorrect sparging can lead to tannins in the beer. We've just been batch sparging with 180 F water. I just pump the water from the HLT over to the MT and stir it all up, then let it sit for 30-45 min and then begin vorlauf.

I don't think 180 F water is too hot, since it doesnt even bring the mash temp up much past 160 most of the time, but I don't know for sure. I could be doing something wrong here...

It's really pH related, doesn't sound likely to be the issue. Looks like you've got pretty good water, I didn't plug in your numbers but don't see anything that jumps out at me with the additions and sounds like you are following pH.
 
Last IPA trial was:

11# Pils
5 oz. C40
5 oz. Carapils
and 1# dextrose solution added to primary after 24 hours

pinch of columbus @ 60 (literally a pinch)
pinch of each: Simcoe, Centennial, Amarillo @ 30
0.5 oz Simcoe, 1 oz Centennial, 1.5 oz Amarillo @ 10
1 oz Simcoe, 1 oz Centennial, 1.5 oz Amarillo @ whirlpool (I start whirlpooling and wait until it hits around 170 F to add the hops, then let them steep for a good 20 mins or so - but I have tried doing this where I just throw them in at knockout too)

Dry hop with 2 oz simcoe, 2.5 oz centennial, 2.5 oz amarillo for 6 days

yeast was US-05, full cake from a previous beer, 3rd generation (clean beers, low abv)

Mash was 148 for 90 min
batch sparge
PH 5.9-6.0 (oops)

water: 2.5 g gypsum, 1g CaCl2, 1g MgSO4
use 1 campden tab and 1 tbsp yeast energizer at 10 left in boil

SG 1.050 (w/o dextrose)
FG 1.008

This beer came out bitter. The dryness was where I wanted. I'll be trying another sample today to see how the dry hop went.

We have a DIY hop-spider that sits over the boil kettle with the paint strainer bag down in the wort. All hops are added to the bag at the listed times
 
PH 5.9-6.0 (oops)

That ain't good. What did the calcs say, like under 50 IBU? I just don't see how that recipe would come out with too much bittering to someone who likes the commerical IPA's you do. The effects of tannins can be mouth puckering, astringent, are you sure that's not what you're getting? With pH of 6 that's my best guess.
 
So, my best IPAs have quite a large 60 minute bittering charge, comparatively. My last bill had 3/4oz of Warrior at 16% alphas for 41 IBUs. Many tasters said it was better than most craft IPAs they'd had. I've found that good warrior hops have a smooth, clean, lingering bitterness that is not at all harsh or grassy (they say this is due to the cohumulone levels). Have you considered the possibility that the culprit might be too few bittering hops, rather than too many?

I'm starting to wonder if the craze for late-aroma hops and hop-standing isn't leading people astray. Grassy-bitter flavors might be a result of the sheer volume of hops rather than the alpha acids, and in order to hit 60 IBUs with late additions you need a ton of hops. This is just a theory, though.

I'll also "second" the too-low final gravity thing. A real bitter IPA needs decent malt/sweetness to balance it or it comes out harsh. I like my IPAs to finish in the 1.012-1.014 range.
 
SOmeone recently messaged me on this. Trying to make an IPA like these new ones that have been getting popular on the east coast. Here's what I messgaed back:
This article has a good general guide on making one of these new juicy east coast IPAs:
http://www.themadfermentationist.com...pa-recipe.html

I've been going nuts trying to make my "perfect" IPA which to me would be immensely fruity but low on citrus (im bored with grapefruity IPAs). So obviously, hop selection is key. Ive really gotten to like Huell Melon, Belma, Hallertau Blanc, Nelson Sauvin, Pacific Gem, Mosaic, Citra, etc. I also like adding 20-30% wheat for several reasons. It gives the IPA a better body, helps head retention, and the wheat seems to boost the juicy fruity flavors in the hops I like to use. I always add some simple sugar and mash low to get my IPA dry. Not as dry as my saisons but dry enough to let the hops do their thing. Im not a fan of crystal malts in my IPAs, but if you want to add some, definitely keep it below 5% or so. Conan and WY1318 are my two yeasts Ill use for any type of IPA. They both gives a silky body which helps with how dry IPAs are and have some nice fruity esters. Not anything crazy like a belgian yeast but Conan apricot/Peach flavors work great with my choice of hops.

Then, the biggest thing is utilizing a whirlpool/hopstand addition for most of your hop character. Im not a fan of very bitter IPAs so I'll do an oz at 60min, maybe another at 15min, but then everything else is going into a long hopstand. I save 3oz or more for dry/keg hopping. But the hopstand additions have enabled me to get a massive amount of flavor and aroma in my IPAs without any lingering bitterness on your palate. It drinks like hoppy gatorade, very clean finish.

I can send you some of my recipes for the different IPAs ive been tooling around with. Ive had best results using the tropical/berry hops for regular IPAs and dank/piney ones for black IPAs
 
Maybe consider First Wort Hopping for a smoother bitterness?
Never experienced it personally, but extended dry hopping can result in grassy flavor.

I dry hopped with 2oz Galaxy for 7 days because I thought I wanted a little bit of a grassy taste. That was way too grassy for me. I'll probably be keeping my dry hopping to 4-5 days from now on.
 
To the OP - maybe change one thing in your recipe at a time until you've found the culprit?

As far as extended dry-hopping & grassy flavours, I've never encountered it. My first beer ever, I didn't understand you were supposed to wait and threw my dry-hops right in the FV after pitching the yeast. I never got grassy flavours, even after 3 weeks in the FV.
 
Oxidized hops can cause excessive bitterness. Too fine of a grain crush, too hot sparge water and high pH can cause tannin extraction (astringency). No way that recipe should be excessively bitter.
I would begin by trying a batch with RO water. Lower your sparge water temp to 170 max. Properly adjust your grain mill (not saying it's set wrong). Use freshly opened hops. Make sure there are no grain husks in your boil kettle. Keep pH below 5.6 at room temp.
Primary for two weeks, before dry hopping! Dry hop AFTER terminal gravity is obtained to achieve maximum effect.

If you're aspiring to go pro, dive into water chemistry, I've got a feeling that's what is going to help.
 
I would recommend getting a water analysis from Ward Labs. All of my beers had a very harsh bitterness to them even using only modest amounts of hops. My water report came back and I had a sulfate level of 250+! Diluted my tap water with RO to get in the 50 s and have made some of the best beer yet including heavily hopped IPAs.

Go to the brew science forum and read the water chemistry primer by AJ. Great starting place.

Happy brewing!
 
Standard process is primary for 2-3 days and then I usually add the dry hops, and let the whole thing sit for another 5-7 so the primary has time to finish while it dry hops. I've also tried doing the primary for a week until stable gravity is reached, and THEN adding the dry hops - but no major difference here, so I figured why waste the extra time.

10 days total fermentation?
Maybe try sticking to your agenda pre-fermentor, then primary for 2 weeks, add 4 of 8oz dry hop for 3 days and 4 of 8oz for 4 days, checking gravity at both additions.
Bottle or keg at 21 days.
Give the flavors 3 weeks to get comfortable with each other...
 
SOmeone recently messaged me on this. Trying to make an IPA like these new ones that have been getting popular on the east coast. Here's what I messgaed back:
This article has a good general guide on making one of these new juicy east coast IPAs:
http://www.themadfermentationist.com...pa-recipe.html

I've been going nuts trying to make my "perfect" IPA which to me would be immensely fruity but low on citrus (im bored with grapefruity IPAs). So obviously, hop sections is key. Ive really gotten to like Huell Melon, Belma, Hallertau Blanc, Nelson Sauvin, Pacific Gem, Mosaic, Citra, etc. I also like adding 20-30% wheat for several reasons. It gives the IPA a better body, helps head retention, and the wheat seems to boost the juicy fruity flavors in the hops I like to use. I always add some simple sugar and mash low to get my IPA dry. Not as dry as my saisons but dry enough to let the hops do their thing. Im not a fan of crystal malts in my IPAs, but if you want to add some, definitely keep it below 5% or so. Conan and WY1318 are my two yeasts Ill use for any type of IPA. They both gives a silky body which helps with how dry IPAs are and have some nice fruity esters. Not anything crazy like a belgian yeast but Conan apricot/Peach flavors work great with my choice of hops.

Then, the biggest thing is utilizing a whirlpool/hopstand addition for most of your hop character. Im not a fan of very bitter IPAs so I'll do an oz at 60min, maybe another at 15min, but then everything else is going into a long hopstand. I save 3oz or more for dry/keg hopping. But the hopstand additions have enabled me to get a massive amount of flavor and aroma in my IPAs without any lingering bitterness on your palate. It drinks like hoppy gatorade, very clean finish.

I can send you some of my recipes for the different IPAs ive been tooling around with. Ive had best results using the tropical/berry hops for regular IPAs and dank/piney ones for black IPAs

Feel free to send me those recipes...
 
I don't have an RO unit to filter the water, and from a cost standpoint it wouldn't be feasible to buy water when we brew.
I can get an analysis, but the water sources from the city change at random, so it's unlikely that the same profile would stay valid. Plus there are several local breweries making IPAs that aren't that bitter (using the same water).
I'd suspect that ph/tannins might have something to do with it.
I also mill my grain at the lhbs. But if anyone knows how to build a mill for <$100 I would definitely be on board!
 
Also curious, why primary for 2 weeks? Gravity is stable after 6-7 days usually. I guess I could see giving the yeast some time to mop up any off flavor compounds... Is that why you wait 2 weeks?
 
Yes, the yeast need time to finish up. The reason for waiting to dry hop until fermentation is complete is that the co2 generated by the fermentation carries away the yummy hop aroma when it bubbles out of the airlock.
I still think it's a good idea to buy enough RO water for one batch, that will either prove or disprove whether or not it's the water chemistry messing with you.
 
Also curious, why primary for 2 weeks? Gravity is stable after 6-7 days usually. I guess I could see giving the yeast some time to mop up any off flavor compounds... Is that why you wait 2 weeks?

This is my preference so take it for what it's worth but I check fg at 10 days in then dry hop if hits my number then I let it sit for 3-4 days at that ambient temp then o move it to my garage fridge to cold crash for 3 days then I bottle. The longer you can let the beer sit in the primary for at least 14 days gives the yeast time to clean up any off flavors they put off as the cells die and cold crashing just helps those died yeast cells fall to the bottom as well as any hop debris caused from dry hopping. You may have known this but I'm just saying this has worse for me.
 
I don't have an RO unit to filter the water, and from a cost standpoint it wouldn't be feasible to buy water when we brew.
I can get an analysis, but the water sources from the city change at random, so it's unlikely that the same profile would stay valid. Plus there are several local breweries making IPAs that aren't that bitter (using the same water).
I'd suspect that ph/tannins might have something to do with it.
I also mill my grain at the lhbs. But if anyone knows how to build a mill for <$100 I would definitely be on board!

I used to buy bottled spring water from my local store for .89 a gallon but now I use RO water filled at the same store for .50 a gallon so I'm cutting cost for water in half to buy RO water. You can also have a water company come out and put an inline RO filtration system in for your brewery and in the end it'll save money just for water alone plus any mineral additions like gypsum and cal chloride are real cheap and last along time.
 
Oxidized hops can cause excessive bitterness. Too fine of a grain crush, too hot sparge water and high pH can cause tannin extraction (astringency). No way that recipe should be excessively bitter.
I would begin by trying a batch with RO water. Lower your sparge water temp to 170 max. Properly adjust your grain mill (not saying it's set wrong). Use freshly opened hops. Make sure there are no grain husks in your boil kettle. Keep pH below 5.6 at room temp.
Primary for two weeks, before dry hopping! Dry hop AFTER terminal gravity is obtained to achieve maximum effect.

If you're aspiring to go pro, dive into water chemistry, I've got a feeling that's what is going to help.

I hope the op sees this post I'm going through the same transition regarding water. Never really thought about it till yooper reviewed some beers I sent her and she noted that all had the astringent flavor from a too high mash ph which I never monitored and when I changed to RO with some gypsum and cal chloride additions to the mash it changed everything. Amazing how big water chemistry is to the final product of beer. I really think this is his whole prob plus not letting the beer sit in primary long enough before dry hopping.
 
one thing i recall is when i first dry hopped in a keg i used about 5oz in a hop bag, when i pulled the bag out it would fit through hole so i had to give it a good pull which squeezed the bag through and as this happened all the nasty juices came out of the bag and into the beer. this really effected the beer and was very grassy and soupy. if your using hop bags do not squeeze them what ever you do
 
Oxidized hops can cause excessive bitterness. Too fine of a grain crush, too hot sparge water and high pH can cause tannin extraction (astringency). No way that recipe should be excessively bitter.
I would begin by trying a batch with RO water. Lower your sparge water temp to 170 max. Properly adjust your grain mill (not saying it's set wrong). Use freshly opened hops. Make sure there are no grain husks in your boil kettle. Keep pH below 5.6 at room temp.
Primary for two weeks, before dry hopping! Dry hop AFTER terminal gravity is obtained to achieve maximum effect.

If you're aspiring to go pro, dive into water chemistry, I've got a feeling that's what is going to help.
Bang on. biggest problem I've had with nailing ipas was from oxidation. I went round and round like that until i started all my transfers with co2 and paid attention to cold side oxygen. Problem went away, now ipas are great and hop experiments can be noted and distinguished between.
 
I used to buy bottled spring water from my local store for .89 a gallon but now I use RO water filled at the same store for .50 a gallon so I'm cutting cost for water in half to buy RO water. You can also have a water company come out and put an inline RO filtration system in for your brewery and in the end it'll save money just for water alone plus any mineral additions like gypsum and cal chloride are real cheap and last along time.

So I could look into something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Drinking-Reverse-Osmosis-System-Water/dp/B00J2DGTD8

Now if we run our water through that, should I assume that all mineral profiles are at 0, and build up to my target water profile from there?

This is probably a dumb question, but how do you buy RO water from the store? Can you just go into Safeway and they have gallon jugs of it?
I'm pretty confident that no one will know what I'm talking about if I ask lol


Maybe I missed it, but how are you chilling your wort?

Plate chiller

Bang on. biggest problem I've had with nailing ipas was from oxidation. I went round and round like that until i started all my transfers with co2 and paid attention to cold side oxygen. Problem went away, now ipas are great and hop experiments can be noted and distinguished between.

Yea we had that problem at first, but like you said, switching to CO2 transfer fixed all that :)
 
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