Paint Can Heater

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trefilov22

trefilov22

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Well I don't have a fermentation chamber yet, but I did go ahead an make myself a paint can heater for when I do get one, one less thing to worry about. Turned out very nice, bought the pieces from Lowes...

I followed Brewstands.com DIY fermentation heater with one minor tweak, I had to run the cable thru the top of the can (lid), as I had nothing in my inventory of tools to cut a notch on the plastic lamp base to run the cable thru it...

Here are the parts I used, all purchased at Lowes...

Valspar empty gallon paint bucket $4.98

Cooper Wiring Devices 660-Watt White Hard-Wired Ceiling Socket $1.34

Project Source 6-ft 3-Outlet 16-Gauge White Indoor Extension Cord $1.67

STEEL CITY 6-cu in Round Metal Electrical Box $1.70

I also bought some nuts, washers and bolts that I didn't have any sitting around of, to mount the electrical box to the lid. You can use screws or whatever suits your preference. I drilled through the lid and mounted with the nuts and bolts, I didn't really want screws sticking out the top of the lid.

Here is a photo of the light mounted to the lid!

And a photo of the finished product!

I was able to complete this in about 15 minutes, surprisingly......

Cheers!
 
These things are burn-your-house-down accidents waiting to happen. Not worth the risk to save what, $10? How much will that $10 be when you lose all your possessions?
 
@The_Bishop How is this dangerous? What do you use for $10 more? I have used one for a while but now worried.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Home Brew mobile app
 
The_Bishop said:
These things are burn-your-house-down accidents waiting to happen. Not worth the risk to save what, $10? How much will that $10 be when you lose all your possessions?
Click to expand...

They don't get that hot, if you wire correctly not sure what the fire risk could be. Probably no different than the light in your room. It's not like the light is continuously on... Luckily if it catches on fire, it will probably melt my plastic fermenters rather quickly, which would release 5.5g of liquid each, most likely extinguishing whatever small fire starts.
 
You are enclosing a hot lightbulb in a metal can where the air circulation is limited/non-existent. It's going to run hot. The wire isn't designed for those temperatures, and neither is the light fixture.

There are several options that are safer:

Brew Belt. In a closed area, works fine unless you're looking for 80+ degree ferments.

20x20 Seedling pad. Hang this on the wall of your fermenting chamber.

You don't need a lot of heat in a closed, insulated fermentation chamber.
 
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The_Bishop said:
You are enclosing a hot lightbulb in a metal can where the air circulation is limited/non-existent. It's going to run hot. The wire isn't designed for those temperatures, and neither is the light fixture.

There are several options that are safer:

Brew Belt. In a closed area, works fine unless you're looking for 80+ degree ferments.

20x20 Seedling pad. Hang this on the wall of your fermenting chamber.

You don't need a lot of heat in a closed, insulated fermentation chamber.
Click to expand...

True, but the light isn't running continuously, it kicks on when the temp gets a degree or two below where it should be, and kicks on until it reaches that mark again, then shuts off. I guess to each their own, I have seen a ton of builds using this design with no issues, but obviously there are other options as well. I agree that Peace of Mind can be an important thing in the decision process, and you are right that this will run hot, a lot hotter if its left on for a long period of time.
 
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I'm not sure what the temp of the lit paint can reaches but I just took a old aquarium heater, set it in a milk jug and hooked it up to my Ranco. Once the temp rises again I'll remove the set-up and plug the ranco back into my fridge. The water heated up to 100 F in a 40 degree garage prior to me sticking it into the ferm chamber. It's working like a charm.
 
The paint can radiates the heat better I guess. Dunno the answer to that.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Home Brew mobile app
 
That doesn't sound logical at all, just put the bulb in the fridge less fire hazard and cheaper.
 
I've used the exact same home built heater for over a year. No problems at all. As long as it's wired correctly, it's not going to burn your house down. It's only running for a short period of time and the controller turns it off.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
anything you use can short out and cause a fire. I'm using the paint can heater with a 20 watt bulb in it. I've felt it while it's on and it doesn't get hot enough to even burn me. But it does a good job of keeping a constant temp in the ferm chamber.

So now you got me thinking though. What about all of those ceiling lights that have full covers over them and are running 75 watt bulbs. I would think that would be a fire waiting to happen also!
 
Wow, so much tin foil is needed in this thread. </sarcasm>

So what are you guys going to do when you can't get incandescent bulbs anymore?
Click to expand...

I asked this question in a whole thread dedicated to it. Rough duty and appliance light bulbs are exempt from the kill the incadesent plans. I found a 40w refigerator bulb easily at Ace. The rough duties go up to 100 easily, cause I got one for my garage that has suffered as workspace with every flourescent I tried.

ps: Yes I am realizing I asked the same question and it is falling in this list, but I am too lazy to make separate posts... :D

These things are burn-your-house-down accidents waiting to happen. Not worth the risk to save what, $10? How much will that $10 be when you lose all your possessions?
Click to expand...

Seriously? Can we get some numbers and actual research to this? It is a light bulb. The filament will break LONG before the heat of the can burns down your house. It is actually an unintended safety feature. The lights are not ON all the time, you run them off a controller and if the controllers fail, they are supposed to fail in a 'safe' mode meaning off. I hear many many more stories abou xmas lights burning down a house than ANY heater cans. When we get numbers, I might start to listen to this oft repeated 'ya'll r gonna die!' line.
(OH...and for the heater pads...do you know why standard heating pads and even electric blankets now have limited timers? Right, so stop burning down houses. Does your seedling mat have a timer to turn it off? Hmmm?)

so you are not exposing you beer to light
S_M
----------
incandescent lights put off so little uv
Click to expand...

Uhm...beer skunks because of blue light, not UV.
"Blue light, and to a lesser extent green and a bit of near ultraviolet are the most damaging to beer. Most wavelenghts of ultraviolet light are not a concern because glass blocks them quite effectively (that&#8217;s why you don&#8217;t get sunburned in your car)."

"In the real world, where beers aren&#8217;t bombarded by lasers, light-struck beer is due to visible light between 400-500 nanometers in wavelength (the blue end of the spectrum) and ultraviolet light, which has a wavelength of less than 400 nm. Brown bottles block out light under 500nm, and green bottles block light below 400nm, which is why the occasional Heineken will taste off. And, clear glass provides zero protection against light, which is why Corona advertisers cleverly suggest you drink their brew with a slice of lime."

You put the light in a can to avoid skunking your beer. Period. Even if you stuck it in a fridge as a heater, you still want to block the light.

Sorry, to get snarky, but wow these ideas just keep coming around.
 
Thanks, sablesurfer, for bringing some reason to the table regarding safety and pointing out that visible spectrum blue light, not UV wavelengths are the source of skunked beer. Beat me to the punch.

Shiny side out.
 
sablesurfer said:
Seriously? Can we get some numbers and actual research to this? It is a light bulb. The filament will break LONG before the heat of the can burns down your house. It is actually an unintended safety feature. The lights are not ON all the time, you run them off a controller and if the controllers fail, they are supposed to fail in a 'safe' mode meaning off. I hear many many more stories abou xmas lights burning down a house than ANY heater cans. When we get numbers, I might start to listen to this oft repeated 'ya'll r gonna die!' line.
(OH...and for the heater pads...do you know why standard heating pads and even electric blankets now have limited timers? Right, so stop burning down houses. Does your seedling mat have a timer to turn it off? Hmmm?)
Click to expand...

Actual research? How's this: I fight fires for a living. Part of my training is fire cause and origin determination. I HAVE ACTUAL TRAINING regarding this, not 'theory'. I have seen people lose all their personal belongings because they fail to take safety seriously, especially when dealing with heat generating electrical appliances in enclosed spaces. This has been my profession for twenty years!

Seedling pads do not have this issue because they're low-watt-density devices that interrupt the circuit when they fail; it's an inherently safe design. Failure mode for them is the heating element separates, shutting down the circuit.

Here's a scenario that is in no way hypothetical because IT HAPPENED.

Store owner had an enclosed display case that he wanted to use to keep food warm, so he installed light fixture bases in boxes, very much as described in this thread, along the top of the case. He installed four infra-red bulbs in the fixtures.

This worked fine, for a couple of months. Over time, however, the heating/cooling of the wire caused the insulation on the wire to fail. The wires shorted against the stainless steel case, which cause the whole run to overheat. The fire started *outside* the case, near where the wire was plugged into the wall. Fortunately, we arrived in time to stop the spread of the fire before too much damage happened.

Telling people that it's safe to use zip cords and plastic light sockets sealed in a metal can with light bulbs that makes them work *way* outside their temperature ratings is reckless and irresponsible. When that bulb is on, the air temperatures in that can skyrocket.

You can take your 'snark' and stick it where the sun doesn't shine, because my life's work has been dealing with the aftermath of 'know it all' BS like that. Maybe you're willing to risk it all on the basis that the light bulb will blow out before something bad happens, but I'll spend the extra $10 and use something more suitable/safer. I DIY all the time, from electrical work to plumbing and more stuff than I can list, including plumbing my entire home for natural gas. I sleep easy knowing I did it the *correct* way, and not relying on some internet blowhard saying, "Trust me, it's safe."

Electricity is great until you make a mistake, then it's one unforgiving SOB.
 
I believe my bulb-in-a-can setup is acceptably low risk for me and my situation. I do not recommend it for others nor do I accept others making up my mind for me. My reasons for deciding it is acceptable risk are as follows.

1. Having the circuit STC 1000 controlled limits how hot things get inside the ferm chamber. I'm doubtful that one portion of the wooden chamber could reach 500+ degrees F ignition temp without heating my carboy above 68, breaking the circuit.

2. The can is not sealed. It's located in a separate chamber than my carboy so light is blocked. I wasn't worried that temps would rise radically and dangerously in a sealed can for the reason I mention above; it just makes changing the bulb easier.

3. I use a 25 W bulb. I can hold the can in my hands with the light on without getting burned. Normal cycling takes a few minutes to heat the carboy up the .3C needed to switch off again.

4. The outlet powering my ferm cabinet, as with every outlet in my basement where I brew, is GFCI protected.

I accept the fact that anytime someone does a project that involves electricity there is an element of risk. In my judgment, in my situation, the risk is acceptable. You make up you own mind what is right for you.
 
The_Bishop said:
Actual research? How's this: I fight fires for a living. Part of my training is fire cause and origin determination. I HAVE ACTUAL TRAINING regarding this, not 'theory'. I have seen people lose all their personal belongings because they fail to take safety seriously, especially when dealing with heat generating electrical appliances in enclosed spaces. This has been my profession for twenty years!

Store owner had an enclosed display case that he wanted to use to keep food warm, so he installed light fixture bases in boxes, very much as described in this thread, along the top of the case. He installed four infra-red bulbs in the fixtures.

Electricity is great until you make a mistake, then it's one unforgiving SOB.
Click to expand...

I don't mean to argue here because as a firefighter you do know what you are talking about but you say he used 4 INFRA-RED bulbs? That is far worse than us using 25 watt appliance bulbs like I do. I also have it plugged into a STC-1000 which is plugged into a surge protector.


I'm just saying.... 4 infra-red bulbs, that IS fire waiting to happen!
 
I think someone is just a hot head and wants everyone to know what he does for a living. Guess what???? I'm a firefighter also and have built something similar myself. I have no worries using it whatsoever. The plastic light fixture is a little bit questionable ( I used a ceramic one ). Like many have said above, it's a low watt bulb that is heating very slowly for a short period of time. No one is using infrared bulbs to warm their fermentation chamber. Get over yourself.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Oh, yes. I run around screaming my profession to the world. That's why my user ID is SuperFireFighter3000.

Oh, wait. It isn't. In fact the *only* reason I brought it up is someone questioned the statement I made, and asked for experience/evidence to back it up. I provided such.

If these heaters are so great, how come you don't see them manufactured/sold by legitimate businesses?

If you need a clue, here's a big one: It's because you are using components in a way that they are not designed for. It's not 100% safe. Noone would be insane enough to risk the liability of selling something like this.

I've said my piece. Have fun, hope I don't see your house in the news.
 
you provided "evidence" of someone using 4 INFRA-RED bulbs. Who here has said anything about using that in a paint can for heating their chamber?

That's all I'm saying, I'm done with this subject.
 
The_Bishop said:
Oh, yes. I run around screaming my profession to the world. That's why my user ID is SuperFireFighter3000.

Oh, wait. It isn't. In fact the *only* reason I brought it up is someone questioned the statement I made, and asked for experience/evidence to back it up. I provided such.

If these heaters are so great, how come you don't see them manufactured/sold by legitimate businesses?

If you need a clue, here's a big one: It's because you are using components in a way that they are not designed for. It's not 100% safe. Noone would be insane enough to risk the liability of selling something like this.

I've said my piece. Have fun, hope I don't see your house in the news.
Click to expand...

I haven't really looked but don't recall seeing any light-bulb-in-a-can heaters sold commercially. I have seen easy bake ovens, a kid's toy which originally had 100 watt bulbs in an enclosed space. These were not without their hazards, mainly kids touching the hot inner surfaces and burning themselves. I haven't read much about them starting house fires despite the fact that they were designed to produce about 400 degrees. If I looked long enough I could probably find an instance or two.

My 25W can heater runs about 100 - 125 degrees; I can hold it in my hands as long as I want and it is not uncomfortably warm. Though it works for me I'm not telling anyone to make and use one. It's not my place to tell others what to do or not do.
 
I think as long as you're using a ceramic fixture as opposed to the cheaper plastic ones you should be fine. That's the only part of these builds that make me nervous. I use a reptile heater with no can. It works really well. It does get hot, but it is only on for a few minutes per hour. I'm very careful to give it a lot of clearance.
 
The_Bishop said:
A
Here's a scenario that is in no way hypothetical because IT HAPPENED.

Store owner had an enclosed display case that he wanted to use to keep food warm, so he installed light fixture bases in boxes, very much as described in this thread, along the top of the case. He installed four infra-red bulbs in the fixtures.

This worked fine, for a couple of months. Over time, however, the heating/cooling of the wire caused the insulation on the wire to fail. The wires shorted against the stainless steel case, which cause the whole run to overheat. The fire started *outside* the case, near where the wire was plugged into the wall. Fortunately, we arrived in time to stop the spread of the fire before too much damage happened.
Click to expand...

Ok, I wrote a response, and then realized that after a weekend traveling and competing outside in 15F Columbus Ohio snow storm for an entire day...I might be in a different head space than when I wrote the post that got Bishop worked up.

------
I appreciate this example as a perfect representation of how not to do it. Yes, using FOUR actual "heat lamps" (my quote because I doubt they were truly infrared because usually food lamps actually put out visible light) in an enclosed space with shoddy wiring is just asking for trouble.

So the lesson here is to NOT put FOUR heat lamps into an enclosed space with the wiring exposed to a full business day's time over extended periods.

However, none of that has been talked about in this thread, and I would be one of the first to go..."uhm, do you really want to do that?"

Once my system is running next week, I will be happy to run some digital temp readings on the outside of the can. In fact I will be doing this away because I want to make sure my spacing off the back wall is enough.

Bishop, I will NEVER doubt you work or you passion, because only passionate people will make good firefighters. But allow me to present opposing views. Yes I posted with some snark, we'll mark it down to impatience. Civilized people disagree on view points all the time. My job in life is based around logic arguments and evidenced based results. That is the only way you maintain IT systems across the nation and make sure they all deal with the same data the same way. I analyze data and make recommendations for a living.

So, I need more than one anecdotal data point before I make, or change decisions/view point. It would help if the data point more closely resembled an actual fermentation chamber can heater.
 
I've been using a $5 home depot clamp lamp with 40w light bulb for years. Incandescent light bulbs produce no UV light. My fermented are exposed to the direct light from it and never had an issue.

I simply connect the light bulb to a ranco temp controller, drop the probe into the fridge (wine chiller in my case) and submerge it in a WLP vial filled with water. Done. Incandescent light bulbs in the fridge is no more dangerous than a light bulb lighting your living room.


EDIT: also if it will make you sleep better at night you can get a ceramic heat bulb for reptile tanks. They produce heat only, no uv and are basically made to be used without supervision.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001F9CV7K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
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Bartp said:
I've been using a $5 home depot clamp lamp with 40w light bulb for years. Incandescent light bulbs produce no UV light. My fermented are exposed to the direct light from it and never had an issue.

I simply connect the light bulb to a ranco temp controller, drop the probe into the fridge (wine chiller in my case) and submerge it in a WLP vial filled with water. Done. Incandescent light bulbs in the fridge is no more dangerous than a light bulb lighting your living room.


EDIT: also if it will make you sleep better at night you can get a ceramic heat bulb for reptile tanks. They produce heat only, no uv and are basically made to be used without supervision.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001F9CV7K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Click to expand...

I guess i'd rather have the extra security of knowing the personal heater has a shutoff at 100f. Ive had a STC1000 fail and keep the heater on for hours until it triggered its thermal shutoff, if that was a light bulb that would have been stuck on all weekend in a tiny 5cuFt fridge i have no doubt something would have melted and potentially caught fire.

Its for that one reason alone i dont use the light bulb, sure maybe it may just burn out due to the heat...but maybe it wont. You cant compare something like this to a light bulb in your living room. Your living room has space for air to circulate and keep everything cooled, the same goes for reptile heaters..you dont stick it in a super sealed insulated box, you stick it in a glass aquarium without a top, or at least one that lets air in so your lizards dont suffocate.
 
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According to Stan Hieronymus in For the Love of Hops, pg 233, skunkiness is produced by photodecomposition of isohumulones in the presence of riboflavin. He cites Japanese research in the 1960s by Yoshiro Kuroiwa and associates in determining that the blue part of the visible light spectrum is most efficient at causing the problem.

Not saying that UV alone absolutely will not cause a problem but I don't think it is the main culprit. Incandescent bulbs are very broad spectrum and do produce some blue light, though not at as great an intensity as the longer wavelengths, including infrared.

If the STC can fail "on" I'm not going to be 100% comfortable in the shutoff feature in a 200W heater, a similarly priced item. My setup cannot get hot enough to burn skin, let alone ignite wood or paper. I don't know if the ceramic heater could but I don't need or want something that is capable of putting out that kind of heat.
 
The fermenter is running now and I caught it while the heat was running to maintain the 64F temp. Set up is quart paint can, a PC fan, and 40W lightbulb.

Using the infra-red gun I got:
- Back wall behind can = 75F
- Can itself = 77F
- The rubber socket end coming out of can = 94F (this is the odd number)
 
sablesurfer said:
The fermenter is running now and I caught it while the heat was running to maintain the 64F temp. Set up is quart paint can, a PC fan, and 40W lightbulb.

Using the infra-red gun I got:
- Back wall behind can = 75F
- Can itself = 77F
- The rubber socket end coming out of can = 94F (this is the odd number)
Click to expand...

Let me tell ya something! You're not gonna be able to burn down your house with paltry temps like that; you need to get four infra-red lamps...or convert to propane fired fermentation temp control...or nuclear fission. I apologize for my snarkasm - just enjoying a few home brews and reminiscing about Fire Marshall Bill.
 

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