Where to find kegs

Hey all -

I'm looking for some old 15 gallon (half barrel) kegs to convert to sparge water tanks, brew kettles, etc. for a home brewery project.

I'm in Northern VA - where is a good place to score a couple empties?

Andy

Uh oh. duck.

I take it I hit a nerve...

Before anyone starts in about the ethics of empty kegs (most of which are stamped with "Property of..." or something to that effect) and the means by which they are aquired, perhaps a better way to phrase the question would be:

"Where does everyone else get their kegs since I've seen no fewer than a dozen "keggles" since I started checking this forum out?"

-OR-

If someone is going to tell me to try the search: I did and found nothing but information about cornies. I already have a bunch of those.

Perhaps someone could just tell me where to find half barrels. That would be good.

I don't get the whole "Property of ..." nonsense. If it's your property and you don't want to lose it, then don't let others have it. It's like those stupid cardboard bread boxes.

I think it's nice to return the kegs, but I don't know if I would go as far to say it's unethical to not return them seeing as you never agreed to return them in the first place.

All that being said, I'm still on my lil' old turkey fryer.

Maryland????

Agreed - It's my (or someone else's) deposit.

I still don't know what "uh oh, duck" meant.

And I still don't know where to find half barrel kegs.

Anyone?

This is pretty much sums up the keg debate.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Keggle

BMC can kiss my ass and I'll cut, drill, weld, and cook in their kegs all I want.
(ducking)

olllllo said:

This is pretty much sums up the keg debate.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Keggle

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Good read. But I still don't buy the ethical dilemma. There are alot of people, tons of people, on this very board with converted kegs. I'd like to make one. Can someone who's got one tell me where it came from?

NewBrewer25 said:

BMC can kiss my ass and I'll cut, drill, weld, and cook in their kegs all I want.
(ducking)

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BMC?

and why are we all ducking?

Mine came from a lhbs who charged me the 40 dollar deposit for each. After he explained to me that they are not his nor are they mine. Whatever
Check lhbs for sabco kettles, ebay, craigslist, local microbreweries, scrapyards, bars, problably lots more

NewBrewer25 said:

Mine came from a lhbs who charged me the 40 dollar deposit for each. After he explained to me that they are not his nor are they mine. Whatever
Check lhbs for sabco kettles, ebay, craigslist, local microbreweries, scrapyards, bars, problably lots more

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That's what I was looking for. My brother manages and Applebee's. I'll start there.

Andy

Good luck

PitsPale said:

BMC?

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Budweiser Miller Coors

PitsPale said:

Good read. But I still don't buy the ethical dilemma.

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Then buy some BMC and skip out on the deposit.

Just know that you've now been informed that this is a hot button issue.

PitsPale said:

Agreed - It's my (or someone else's) deposit.

I still don't know what "uh oh, duck" meant.

And I still don't know where to find half barrel kegs.

Anyone?

Click to expand...

If you want a plain answer then it's here.

You steal one (Deprive the owner of their property) and then you do what you want. You can obtain one by renting and not returning. You can buy stolen property from some one or if you are lucky you can just find one to steal yourself.
I don't care what you do but I am not going to tell you it is legal.

call your local breweries or distributors and ask to buy some discontinued kegs. They will have some and you can feel good about your ethical decision.

krispy d said:

call your local breweries or distributors and ask to buy some discontinued kegs. They will have some and you can feel good about your ethical decision.

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When hunting for mine I tried this and it got me nowhere, I got an answer that went someting like "Half barrel kegs are very hard to come by and unfortunately we don't have any to spare"
BTW If there truly is a huge problem with homebrewers stealing half barrel kegs then why wouldn't breweries just ask for a deposit equal to the cost of the keg itself.

NewBrewer25 said:

If there truly is a huge problem with homebrewers stealing half barrel kegs then why wouldn't breweries just ask for a deposit equal to the cost of the keg itself.

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1. States determine deposit amounts
2. They would never sell beer


I know for damn sure I would not be buy a keg of beer if I had to put down a 250-300 deposit.

But really I extremely doubt there is a big problem of homebrewers stealing kegs. I see more kegs just kept from keg parties than there are keggles on this forum. I seriously doubt there is an epidemic of homebrewer thievery driving a shortage of stainless sanke kegs in the world. A drop of water in an ocean.

Anyone who questions whether this is really a problem or not, I would suggest spending a little bit of time on some pro brewers' forums. This is a HUGE issue for craft brewers.

Think of the deposit down on the keg like a car rental. Cost ya $200 to rent a car for a week, doesn't give you the right to keep it. A little different class of theft since they'll definitely be coming back for their car but same principle. And they don't ask for a $23,000 deposit to rent the car .

I understand that it may be a problem. I just question these companies that think they can stamp "Property of" on something, sell it, and then claim that you stole it if you don't give it back. I don't think the legality of it would hold up in court.

There's a difference between considerate, ethical and legal.

But if you are going to keep a keg that you paid for, make sure it's a BMC keg.

desertBrew said:

Think of the deposit down on the keg like a car rental. Cost ya $200 to rent a car for a week, doesn't give you the right to keep it. A little different class of theft since they'll definitely be coming back for their car but same principle. And they don't ask for a $23,000 deposit to rent the car .

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Yes, but you sign a legal agreement with car rentals. You don't do that with kegs. The first time I picked up a keg I didn't even know I paid a deposit.

So, are we clear on why I said uh oh duck yet?

Just because ethical dilemmas exist does not mean everyone will fall on either side of the issue. As far as I'm concerned, unless you've personally purchased one from a distributor with the expectation that you will never return it in good working order, you're obtaining it in a "suspect" manor. One might even question the true source of the ones Sabco debadges if you wanted to be highly suspicious. If you loaned a corny keg to a buddy so they can drink the beer out of it and he cut the top off to make a vase, you'd be pretty pissed too.

Me, I got mine from a scrap yard and I'm about to get a couple more from a liquor store that only wants the deposit value $10 each. I know it's wrong and I'm doing it anyway because I'm a coniving bastard.

This topic comes up every other week and you'll get the same high number of posts because everyone has their opinions. So, to answer the OP, liquor stores, frat houses, garage sales, craigslist, scrap yards, out of business bars.

Personally, there isn't enough home brewers nabbing these kegs to create a dent in their bottom line. Who was stealing these is the same meth heads stealing copper and getting $ back for the scrap.

It still isn't ethical but... How can any keg that a homebrewer has be from a legal path unless it was from sabco or similar? I bought mine from ebay and I'm sure if you could trace it's footprint it's not "legal".

I opted to never chime in on these threads but I liked my car analogy . DB out.

If you think they're selling you the keg for $40, sorry, that's just dead wrong. It's a DEPOSIT, not a purchase. If they didn't make that clear to you, well, either the store employee wasn't explaining things or you weren't listening, because on the issue of ownership, it's pretty much black and white.

You can find a bunch out on Craigslist.com. Just post an add looking to buy them offering up to $30 based on condition. Also note in your ad that you are looking for kegs that are owned outright. If they lie to you, that's their problem, you've done enough due diligence for me. I've purchased several this way, and each one contacted me with a keg to sell.

Try going to Probrewer.com. There is a classified area there with a kegging area. Lots and lots of 1/2 barrels for sale there direct from the breweries micros. I saw some for $25 each FOB. Not sure if they would ship one by itself, but it would be a good place to start for a completely legal 1/2 barrel.

Couple Questions.
Does this dilemma only apply to Sanke kegs, or does it also go for Cornies?

A deposit is different from rent. I rent an apartment, but I make a deposit equal to 1st and last months rent. If I screw the place up, (i.e. pets f-ing up the carpet), or I skip out on my rent before I move, then they keep the deposit. It is in place as their insurance.

for those of you who said that the deposit is lower than what the places would normally charge for a keg, b/c it is regulated, then please post a reputable link where you got that information. Not that I am questioning your honesty, but just so I know it's not some rumor.

desiderata said:

Couple Questions.
Does this dilemma only apply to Sanke kegs, or does it also go for Cornies?

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Cornies are different becase the industry has moved from one piece of equipment to another (box). So they have sold thier old equipment to smaller companies and overseas. Many of these are bought by wholesalers and othe middlemen. That is why you see them for sale at LHBs and online, ebay etc.

It's legitimate resale.

Sankey kegs are still the container of choice in the beer trade. No one is dumping them like they are with cornies. They do not have the same market structure.

desiderata said:

A deposit is different from rent. I rent an apartment, but I make a deposit equal to 1st and last months rent. If I screw the place up, (i.e. pets f-ing up the carpet), or I skip out on my rent before I move, then they keep the deposit. It is in place as their insurance.

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The point is a deposit is not a sale.
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C400-499/4170000290.HTM

desiderata said:

for those of you who said that the deposit is lower than what the places would normally charge for a keg, b/c it is regulated, then please post a reputable link where you got that information. Not that I am questioning your honesty, but just so I know it's not some rumor.

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Not every state does this, NY and MI do
http://www.co.rockland.ny.us/DWI/keg.htm
http://www.mlba.org/

Just in case you believe the deposit represents the cost of the keg, read this article.

http://www.slate.com/id/2165787/

It explains how Coke was not able to raise its prices to reflect the actual costs of production for 70 years because those costs could not be passed on to the consumer (price rigidity).

There is more going on than just homebrewers converting kegs. The price of stainless scrap goes up and folks are stealing just to sell the metal. I was looking around locally for kegs and I went to my local microbrew Trout River to ask if they have any beat up old kegs to sell. The guy I talked to said someone had just stolen all the kegs they had out back to sell for scrap! This is a very small micro not some huge corporation. That really sucks.

All three of mine are old golden gate style kegs from the now defunct Olympia brewery. They're the same volume and work as well as a sankey style but is no ethical dilemma since the brewery no longer exists and the keg style is now outdated.

You can find these on Craigslist pretty easily around here. (especially if you had a big brewery like Olympia go out of business in your area) They're cask shaped with a bung in the side. Some have golden gate taps on the top center and the bottom of the side.

i actually got some kegs from my local package stores (not all will do this). i told them i wanted the empty shells and they sold them to me for the deposit (i think it's $30 now). it's probably still illegal, but it worked for me so i'm sure it'll work for you too!

I wonder if Amazon is ever going to start claiming ownership of its packing materials?

Bobby_M said:

So, are we clear on why I said uh oh duck yet?

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I think I've been to this pub before.

Bobby? Maybe we need to invite Delboy on over.

Let me ask you something.

How much do you think it costs a brewery to buy a keg? $20? $40? $100? More?

Go peruse probrewer.com for a while and see if you can find the answer, then answer me a question...

Why would a brewery SELL you a keg for $40, when it's going to cost them probably three times that to replace it?

Now, if someone wants to buy a grey-market keg, that's fine. Mine is of somewhat questionable origin. I'll buy more if I see any on Craigslist.

Does that mean that it's perfectly legit? Of course not - but I'm willing to accept that I'm not going to do everything in my life perfectly above-board, and I strive to do other good works in my life to offset it. But, I'm not going to pretend that the keg the brewery loans me to hold the BEER that I bought is mine.

BassBurner said:

I wonder if Amazon is ever going to start claiming ownership of its packing materials?

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Bad logic. A box and some peanuts is probably an average of 1% of the cost of the item inside the box. They build the cost into the price of the merch they sell. Now, if any brewery, big or small did that, a 1/2 keg of beer would be almost $200.

I'm with The Bird on this one. I'm just as rotten as the rest of you keg stealers but I just want us all to admit it's wrong, move along, and fire up the burner. Don't try to rationalize the ethics of it to make yourself feel better.

Quick question -

Assuming your only aspire to brew 5 gallon batches...

William's Brewing has a 5 gallon Mash Kit for under $100. It's made of food grade plastic buckets BUT comes with everything you need - Mash Tank jacket, sparge arm, tube, etc. Now, you can't heat up the water once it's IN the buckets, but...

Doing the math... you'll pay ALMOST that much for JUST the parts for a Igloo 10 gallon cooler conversion... That doesn't include the HLT (AT LEAST another $100 if you can't find a "free" keg to convert).

I know William's Brewing is on the pricier edge of the spectrum, but their products and customer service, I feel, are worth the extra few bucks. And $100ish (shipped from coast to coast) for a working Mash system seems to me a better deal then scavenging for potentially illegal parts for more than that, even with the limitations mentioned above...

Thoughts?

Andy

Thoughts?

Batch sparge - easier, don't need sparge arm, fewer PH worries, usually quicker process, VERY small decrease in efficiency.

Buy a Coleman Xtreme cooler (36 quart) for $30; 5 gallon mash tun is too small, IMO. Coleman holds temp perfectly for an hour (at most a one degree temp loss), no need for a mash jacket.

Parts for conversion total maybe $25 or so, combination of bulkhead fitting, ball value, SS braid, some other bits and pieces.

Bigger, I would argue better, mash tun for ~$60. Nothing illegal. Kegs are great for boiling kettles, not necessary for mash tuns (they are nice if you want to direct-fire or set up a HERMS/RIMS system).