Dumping on a Yeast Cake?

First off, Hi Guys & Gals, I'm new here, and love brewing beer

I've never done the yeast starter thing before, mostly because of laziness I suppose, but have often considered racking freshly brewed wort onto an existing yeast cake.

I hear that racking to a fresh yeast cake will get the fermentation process going faster, and will result in a lower FG; so I want to try it out, but have some questions. Here's what I'm working with:

I've got a Belgian Wit (Specialty grains with extract & belgian candi) fermenting in a 6.5g bucket as we speak. It's OG was @ 1.050 I'm planning on leaving the brew in there for a week and a half, and then racking to secondary. Before racking this beer to secondary, I was going to brew up another batch of the same beer, but with a higher OG (I'm shooting for at least 1.060).

Once I do rack the 1st beer to secondary, I want to dump the higher gravity Belgian Wit wort on the yeast cake from the 1st batch.

Here are my questions:

1) Will dumping on the entire yeast cake be too much for my 6.5g ale pail to handle with just an air lock, or will I have to rig up a blowoff tube?

2) If I scoop out (with a sanitized scooper of course) about half of the yeast cake, and then dump the fresh wort on top, would I need a blowoff tube, or would my airlock be sufficient?

Thanks for your help!

5gB

IMO,

Yes and Yes.

I just racked straight onto a yeast cake from a 23L batch and it finish fermenting in under 12 hours from 1050 to 1010.

An the blow of tube blew krausen over the top of the jug of water.

Either way you'd better put the blow-off tubing in........just yesterday I dumped my wort onto a yeast cake. (I first dumped 1/2 or 2/3 of the yeast cake out and pitched on what was left.) I had fermentation starting after 1 hour, and bubbling through the blow-off tubing every 3 seconds 3 hours after pitching. This morning, lots of blow-off in my bucket where the blow-off tube feeds into.

Yes, you'll need a blowoff tube.

If your bucket lid has a hole drilled with a rubber gasket (into which you shove your airlock), just remove the gasket and use whatever size hose fits very snuggly inside the hole.

You can also use the main piece (only) of a three-piece plastic airlock and attach a hose on top of that. Make sure you remove the little plastic cross-hatches which might make it more likely to clog.

I like the first method better because clogging is less likely.

Keep an eye on your temps as well. Vigorous fermentations can raise the temperature a few degress. Maybe not so important this time of year, but take note.

If you decide to pour off half, which some say will lessen the virgorousness, wash the poured off half and save for another day.

how would your first method hold the tube snuggly with the pressure of the CO2 coming out? Do you use duct tape for a little reinforcement?!?

Mk010101 said:

how would your first method hold the tube snuggly with the pressure of the CO2 coming out? Do you use duct tape for a little reinforcement?!?

Click to expand...

I have a tube that goes in very snuggly (that's what she said ) and stays put just fine. If you're worried you could attach a SS clamp to the hose on the inside of the lid.

(SS clamps have a million useful applications in homebrewing, I've found).

Ah, that's a pretty good idea. Thanks!

cweston said:

Yes, you'll need a blowoff tube.

If your bucket lid has a hole drilled with a rubber gasket (into which you shove your airlock), just remove the gasket and use whatever size hose fits very snuggly inside the hole.

You can also use the main piece (only) of a three-piece plastic airlock and attach a hose on top of that. Make sure you remove the little plastic cross-hatches which might make it more likely to clog.

I like the first method better because clogging is less likely.

Click to expand...

That doesn't seem like very wide tubing, you've never experienced clogging using that method?

5gB

olllllo said:

If you decide to pour off half, which some say will lessen the virgorousness, wash the poured off half and save for another day.

Click to expand...

I'm a little off topic in my own thread, but I'm not familiar with 'washing yeast'. How do you wash the yeast? How do you store the then washed yeast for later use?

Thanks! 5gB

5gBrewer said:

That doesn't seem like very wide tubing, you've never experienced clogging using that method?

5gB

Click to expand...

Nope: it's a much larger opening than the intake of an airlock (I think it's about a 1/2 " tube that I use.)

It's worth mentioning that my brewkettle has a SS braid in the bottom, so I get very little trub in the primary. If there were more trub, then I guess clogging of the blowoff tube might be more of a concern.

5gBrewer said:

I'm a little off topic in my own thread, but I'm not familiar with 'washing yeast'. How do you wash the yeast? How do you store the then washed yeast for later use?

Thanks! 5gB

Click to expand...

It's a whole new topic. Do a search and you'll find loads of threads and info.

cweston said:

Nope: it's a much larger opening than the intake of an airlock (I think it's about a 1/2 " tube that I use.)

Click to expand...

I checked out my lids, and my 3 piece airlock. I suppose your technique may indeed work. I imagined the opening to be much smaller, but it is probably about the size you said (around 1/2", maybe a little less to get that snug fit of the 1/2" tubing).

Thanks for all your help everyone! I think my plan of action is going to be this:

1) Scoop out (and wash some yeast cake, and leave like half a cake in the primary to rack my new wort onto.

2) Attach a suitable sized blowoff tube to my existing lid.

3) Pray it still doesn't pop!!!

Since a lot of you guys said that racking onto a yeast cake creates a fast and furious fermentation, I'm going to perform this operation on a Saturday (probably next saturday). This way, if there is a nasty mess to clean up, I'll have the time to fuss with it

5gB

So, what size ID tube should the blow off be for a standard glass carboy?

More Blowoff Questions

I was reading on another thread about exploding lids and such, and someone had recommended to just leave the sanitized lid resting on top of the bucket (not sealed). Then, once the fermentation action calms down a bit, press the lid down.

1) If I went with this route, I would assume that all sorts of foam, krausen, and crap is going to come spilling out of the bucket at some point, correct?

2) Would placing the loosely covered bucket in something like a deep aluminum turkey pan be enough to catch whatever spills over, or is there still going to be spouting beer action?

3) I'm still planning on going with the tubing idea, but I read on the same thread about someone who's lid blew off when using 1/2" tubing; so I'm a little nervous about going that route, but is it better than leaving the lid on the bucket loosely?

I know I sound like I need to relax, and have a homebrew I wouldn't care so much if I had a decent place for 6.5g ale pails to explode :cross:

5gB

A lot of people used to (and some still do) ferement in open containers!

I'd put the container on a tray, put an air lock in bu don't snap the lid on. After peak krausen just snap the lid on and clear anything in the airlock.

Yup, have a homebrew

Soon, get a carboy and use a blowoff tube into your bucket. You will never have to worry again. Every batch I've brewed has had lots of foam and goodness cruising through the blowoff tube and into the bucket of water. Never had a mess to clean up - other than washing the bucket. Very nice!

5gBrewer said:

Here are my questions:

1) Will dumping on the entire yeast cake be too much for my 6.5g ale pail to handle with just an air lock, or will I have to rig up a blowoff tube?

2) If I scoop out (with a sanitized scooper of course) about half of the yeast cake, and then dump the fresh wort on top, would I need a blowoff tube, or would my airlock be sufficient?

Thanks for your help!

5gB

Click to expand...

I use Nottingham yeast a lot - and I dump on the yeast cake of it. For the first batch, I just sprinkle the dried yeast on top of the wort. When that beer is finished, I pitch a new wort right on top of the entire yeast cake. I generally get bubbles within an hour or two and fermentation is complete in 24-36 hours. I have never had a blow-off (I use a plastic bucket for primary), and I have never had off-flavors from this practice.

In short, I am a bit skeptical about the whole business of too-vigorous-is-bad philosophy, but I have yet to gather the courage to put a third batch of wort on that huge amount of yeast.

I haven't done the math, but a packet of yeast after 10 gallons of 1.050-1.060 beer fermented has to yield an astronomically high cell count.

That's the starter for a 15BBL batch at a brewpub. :rockin:

Every time I see the title of this thread I'm reminded of German porn.

Cheesefood said:

Every time I see the title of this thread I'm reminded of German porn.

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Das sexy :cross:

Now I can't eat my balony sandwich!

You wouldn't eat it anyway if you knew what was in it. Much like everything else we eat. Now where is my blood pudding?