American IPA Trilium Melcher Street Clone

stonebrewer · Jul 30, 2016

This is my third batch of this beer, and it always tastes wheaty when its young. Even so, next time I might back the flaked wheat down to 15%.

@OdeCloner: Thinking the opposite. I am going to brew this at least two more times as an experiment. Once with wheat at 20% of the grist and once at (gulp!) 50% to see if it holds the hop oils in suspension longer. Call me crazy, but I think more wheat may be needed to dial this in. Thoughts?

lilbova3 · Jul 30, 2016

stonebrewer said:
@OdeCloner: Thinking the opposite. I am going to brew this at least two more times as an experiment. Once with wheat at 20% of the grist and once at (gulp!) 50% to see if it holds the hop oils in suspension longer. Call me crazy, but I think more wheat may be needed to dial this in. Thoughts?

I've been brewing some NE style pale ales with 31% flaked wheat/oats. They've been coming out amazing. Here's a couple of pics of the same beer just different angles for pictures.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1469883627.553820.jpg
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1469883640.931595.jpg

I did the Fort Point clone from BYO and thought it came out kinda thin. Not the fullness I was looking for even with high chloride. I believe LOTS of flaked wheat/oat is key.

stonebrewer · Jul 30, 2016

@lilbova3 : The real Fort Point is kinda thin...don't know if you did a side by side or not. It is an easy drinker for sure.

Is that BYO recipe posted anywhere? Talking to JC he said there were tips in the article that I would be interested in reading...can't seem to find that article online anywhere.

Your beers look delicious! Why 31%, out of curiosity? I want to brew a beer that is highly hopped with a lot of flaked wheat...probably going to have to use the last of my rice hulls to prevent a stuck mash. Any problems with your mash at 31%?

lilbova3 · Jul 30, 2016

stonebrewer said:
@lilbova3 : The real Fort Point is kinda thin...don't know if you did a side by side or not. It is an easy drinker for sure.

Is that BYO recipe posted anywhere? Talking to JC he said there were tips in the article that I would be interested in reading...can't seem to find that article online anywhere.

Your beers look delicious! Why 31%, out of curiosity? I want to brew a beer that is highly hopped with a lot of flaked wheat...probably going to have to use the last of my rice hulls to prevent a stuck mash. Any problems with your mash at 31%?

I believe I created a Fort Point clone thread if you search for it. I didn't do a side by side with mine.

I just decided to try 31%. There's a local brewer where I'm at and he's been doing about 40% with white wheat though. I just like the mouthfeel with it. Little thicker and really adds to the haze.

Thanks the beer is delish! I BIAB so I don't have to worry about a sparge.

OdeCloner · Aug 4, 2016

Update:
We're now fully carbed up and over a week in the keg. This beer is jaw-dropping. I can't stress how much of an improvement the 1318 was over the WLP007. It's an extremely different beer because it's more floral, fruitier, and fuller on the palate. Even after I rinse a glass with water, I can still smell the hop oils stuck to the walls. It takes soap to make the glass smell clean. I think that's awesome!

The changes in this batch were the water profile (the 150/100 Chloride/Sulfate ratio) and the yeast (1318) and bumping up the Crystal and CaraPils. Together, they've provided a very rich, creamy mouthfeel that I think surpasses the Trilium beers I've tasted. I think it's actually gone a shade too far, so next time, I think I'd dial back down the Crystal and Carapils to the 3% range, keep the water and yeast where they are.

Anyway, I stand by my earlier comments that this is an incredible recipe to let almost any hop stand out front and center. Can't wait to play around with Amarillo, El Dorado, Simcoe, Centennial and the list goes on.

@stonebrewer - let me know how the wheatier version turns out!

Be well!

stonebrewer · Aug 5, 2016

@OdeCloner: Will do! It is 2nd or 3rd on my brew list. Doing an Airwaves IPL this weekend that I am really looking forward to, then either Westy 12 or wheaty Melcher. Hoping to get all three done this weekend, but family probably will prohibit me doing nothing but brewing all weekend.

jasonfitzg · Aug 11, 2016

stonebrewer said:
Tasting fantastic!

Mine was:

73.4% Two Row
15.1% White Wheat (think flaked is the way to go though)
3.4% Carapils and C15
4.5% Dex

This is a tad sweeter, great mouthfeel...soft and full. Added 3g gypsum and 5g calcium chloride as well as 5ml of 85% phosphoric, which gave me a mash PH of 5.32 and 151 chloride/ 77 sulfate. Having a glass now on day 4 and it is not falling off at all. I am also keeping the CO2 low...not still, but not going for a big head as I find the carbonic bite distracts from this beer style.

Will keg my Vicinity clone attempt tonight which I bumped up the chloride more, and the sulfate. I fermented it and carbed it in the keg. Will push via gas to a flushed serving keg with my final dry hop addition.

Future attempts? I think I will do the Melcher again in the next month or so. I will bump salts up a bit to push the envelope. I will also attempt the LODO method to see if I can really keep an IPA for over a year tasting as fresh as first kegged. Skeptical, yes. Curious, hell yeah!

What is the hop schedule you used for this?

stonebrewer · Aug 11, 2016

jasonfitzg said:
What is the hop schedule you used for this?

See first post for the hop schedule. Not sure how others are doing it but I stick to the schedule for the most part. Only places I diverged was I fermented in a closed keg and added the dry hops to the keg. Also, one time I brewed it I was low on Mosaic so I put 4 ounces of Mosaic and 2 ounces of Simcoe vice the 6 of Mosaic.

OdeCloner · Aug 26, 2016

Quick update: This latest keg is still drinking wonderfully. I think this is my most successful homebrew effort to date.

I cannot stress enough how important it is to eliminate oxygen pickup when brewing this beer. I've now brewed this three times, each time being more and more careful and the differences are stark.

For the first batch I siphoned into purged, open-top keg. No splashing, calm etc. Beer got worse with every pint. Ultimately crossed the good/bad line about a month in. By then it was also noticeably darker.

On the second and third batches, I dramatically changed things up. I began filling a keg with StarSan, purging what little headspace remained a few times and pushing out the StarSan with CO2. After that, I pressure transferred from the carboy to the keg's liquid out post, and connected a line from the gas in post to a bucket of StarSan.

I could not believe the difference it made! My third batch has been in keg for almost a month now and it's barely moved flavor-wise. It still has intense aromatics and that crazy, round hop flavor it had on day one.

I've kegged a lot of beer via siphon and never had it show this much difference. With this beer though, the difference has been insane!

olotti · Aug 26, 2016

OdeCloner said:
Quick update: This latest keg is still drinking wonderfully. I think this is my most successful homebrew effort to date.

I cannot stress enough how important it is to eliminate oxygen pickup when brewing this beer. I've now brewed this three times, each time being more and more careful and the differences are stark.

For the first batch I siphoned into purged, open-top keg. No splashing, calm etc. Beer got worse with every pint. Ultimately crossed the good/bad line about a month in. By then it was also noticeably darker.

On the second and third batches, I dramatically changed things up. I began filling a keg with StarSan, purging what little headspace remained a few times and pushing out the StarSan with CO2. After that, I pressure transferred from the carboy to the keg's liquid out post, and connected a line from the gas in post to a bucket of StarSan.

I could not believe the difference it made! My third batch has been in keg for almost a month now and it's barely moved flavor-wise. It still has intense aromatics and that crazy, round hop flavor it had on day one.

I've kegged a lot of beer via siphon and never had it show this much difference. With this beer though, the difference has been insane!

Im at a point making these really hoppy beers like 1lb in an IPA and found I'm having more trouble than ever with oxidation hitting these beers early, and I bottle. There's gotta be something with the amount of hops, yeast type and particulate in suspension that makes these beers so susceptible to oxidation if all the right steps aren carefully covered, I brew a blonde ale/apa about 55ibus and half the hops and it's crystal clear and full of flavor for over a month so I've seen the results side by side. Looks like you've found a way to beat this nasty O2 issue Kudos.

kengetty · Sep 21, 2016

OdeCloner said:
Update:
We're now fully carbed up and over a week in the keg. This beer is jaw-dropping. I can't stress how much of an improvement the 1318 was over the WLP007. It's an extremely different beer because it's more floral, fruitier, and fuller on the palate. Even after I rinse a glass with water, I can still smell the hop oils stuck to the walls. It takes soap to make the glass smell clean. I think that's awesome!

The changes in this batch were the water profile (the 150/100 Chloride/Sulfate ratio) and the yeast (1318) and bumping up the Crystal and CaraPils. Together, they've provided a very rich, creamy mouthfeel that I think surpasses the Trilium beers I've tasted. I think it's actually gone a shade too far, so next time, I think I'd dial back down the Crystal and Carapils to the 3% range, keep the water and yeast where they are.

Anyway, I stand by my earlier comments that this is an incredible recipe to let almost any hop stand out front and center. Can't wait to play around with Amarillo, El Dorado, Simcoe, Centennial and the list goes on.

@stonebrewer - let me know how the wheatier version turns out!

Be well!

Thanks for all the information you and @stonebrewer have compiled!

Was wondering if you have tried harvesting any yeast from their cans? I just came back to Chicago with a couple four packs and was going to give it the old college try. Willing to share it with you guys if it works.

Also....I can not agree more with your comments on oxidation and achieving near clones. I really think this is the most undervalued statement on how to properly brew NE IPAs.

lilbova3 · Sep 21, 2016

kengetty said:
Thanks for all the information you and @stonebrewer have compiled!

Was wondering if you have tried harvesting any yeast from their cans? I just came back to Chicago with a couple four packs and was going to give it the old college try. Willing to share it with you guys if it works.

Also....I can not agree more with your comments on oxidation and achieving near clones. I really think this is the most undervalued statement on how to properly brew NE IPAs.

I had a brewing friend visit Trillium and found out they use Conan. They prefer 1318 but it's not as reliable and doesn't drop as well as Conan. So if you can get your hands on some Conan you'd be good to go.

ultravista · Sep 21, 2016

Subscribing

brew703 · Sep 21, 2016

For those who bottle are there any suggestions on how to eliminate oxygen?

kengetty · Sep 21, 2016

brew703 said:
For those who bottle are there any suggestions on how to eliminate oxygen?

Do you have access to a Blichmann bottling gun?

brew703 · Sep 21, 2016

kengetty said:
Do you have access to a Blichmann bottling gun?

No. but I guess I will need to look into that.

brew703 · Sep 21, 2016

kengetty said:
Do you have access to a Blichmann bottling gun?

Do you need to have a keg to bottle using the beer gun?

brewski09 · Sep 21, 2016

lilbova3 said:
I had a brewing friend visit Trillium and found out they use Conan. They prefer 1318 but it's not as reliable and doesn't drop as well as Conan. So if you can get your hands on some Conan you'd be good to go.

That just seems counterintuitive to everything I've heard about Conan. I'd be curious what they found unreliable about 1318 of you can find out from your friend. Thx

lilbova3 · Sep 22, 2016

brewski09 said:
That just seems counterintuitive to everything I've heard about Conan. I'd be curious what they found unreliable about 1318 of you can find out from your friend. Thx

1318 can be very finicky. For Trillium, Conan drops better and is easier to use commercially because they can judge pitch counts better. 1318 doesn't like to sit around. After a batch is done it wants to be back to work within a day, if possible. That was told to my buddy from Wyeast. If it isn't, then viability can go way down and you're left with dormant yeast and cause under attenuation. They prefer 1318 but use Conan.

I've never tried Conan but love 1318 and don't see myself trying it anytime soon because of how good 1318 is.

kengetty · Oct 3, 2016

Going to brew a ten gallon batch on Monday one batch with 1318 and a second with Trillium Can (assuming Conan) dregs. Going to split the dry hop to create 5 gallons of Melcher (Mosaic) & Congress (Galaxy).

My question is which yeast strain would you pair with the individual clone recipes based on past experiences? I have only brewed once with 1318 and it was a Simcoe Pale Ale that focused on the dankness over the juicy fruit. Thanks!

lilbova3 · Oct 4, 2016

kengetty said:
Going to brew a ten gallon batch on Monday one batch with 1318 and a second with Trillium Can (assuming Conan) dregs. Going to split the dry hop to create 5 gallons of Melcher (Mosaic) & Congress (Galaxy).

My question is which yeast strain would you pair with the individual clone recipes based on past experiences? I have only brewed once with 1318 and it was a Simcoe Pale Ale that focused on the dankness over the juicy fruit. Thanks!

Personally, Mosaic and Galaxy are juicy but Simcoe not so much. Simcoe will provide more pine and possible dankness and slight passion fruit. You'll get juicy with Mosaic and Galaxy. So to answer your question, I don't think it'll matter which hop you pair with which yeast. Both will be juicy.

The difference I've seen between Conan and 1318 is how much they drop out of suspension. 1318 hangs around more and looks more turbid while Conan clears a lot better. Not sure about comparing esters or attenuation between the two.

kengetty · Oct 4, 2016

Thanks @lilbova3!

Another quick question...what have you guys been shooting for IBU wise on your Street clones?

OdeCloner · Oct 4, 2016

I can only comment on the trade between WLP007 and Wyeast 1318, but for me, 1318 is a clear winner. It's not even close.

I have 10 gals in fermentors right now, and I hit them both with 1318, but each will get a different dry hop combo. Amarillo/Simcoe and something else TBD.

In terms of IBUs in a 5gal batch, mine are around 25 from...
.5oz of 14%AA Columbus for 60 min.
1oz of 14%AA Columbus for 10 min.
3oz of 14%AA Columbus Hopstand for 15-30 minutes.

lilbova3 · Oct 4, 2016

kengetty said:
Thanks @lilbova3!

Another quick question...what have you guys been shooting for IBU wise on your Street clones?

I use brewgr to make my recipes and my calculated IBU is only 5! It doesn't include any WP bitterness. I still feel WP at 175 adds some bitterness.

My most recent NE style beer I threw all the hops in at WP. Nothing before that. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out.

stonebrewer · Oct 6, 2016

@libova3: I was discussing WP hops with a few different folks recently because I was not completely satisfied with what I was getting out of them in the final product. A couple of folks brought up the point that pros WP at knockout, which means they are not cooling to 170 like a lot of homebrewers do, so they are extracting some bitterness during the WP. I think that in my last batch I did the same as the pros...gotta go look at brew notes as it has been a few weeks and I have not been "thinking beer" much due to work related travel and whatnot. Anyhow, food for thought when doing your next batch...you may want to try a beer or two with WP at knockout and see what affects you perceive in the flavor and perhaps flavor longevity of your IPAs. Hmmm...that reminds me, that beer should be ready to drink. Gotta get that into the kegerator quick! Cheers...

droder1 · Oct 7, 2016

lilbova3 said:
I had a brewing friend visit Trillium and found out they use Conan. They prefer 1318 but it's not as reliable and doesn't drop as well as Conan. So if you can get your hands on some Conan you'd be good to go.

Who told them Conan? It's widely believed between here and BA forums they use wlp007. JC hasn't said specifically, but he's said their strain is typically very flocculant (in non trillium beers). I wouldn't say Conan fits that description. Also i find it odd they'd not use a yeast they prefer. JC doesn't strike me as one who would pass up a better quality beer for "ease".

lilbova3 · Oct 7, 2016

droder1 said:
Who told them Conan? It's widely believed between here and BA forums they use wlp007. JC hasn't said specifically, but he's said their strain is typically very flocculant (in non trillium beers). I wouldn't say Conan fits that description. Also i find it odd they'd not use a yeast they prefer. JC doesn't strike me as one who would pass up a better quality beer for "ease".

Brewer told my buddies in the first few minutes they were there that they used Conan. JC isn't giving up quality because he knows Conan is more reliable - attenuation, yeast counts, viability and floccs. 1318 isn't as reliable which would lead to less quality in his beer.

kengetty · Oct 7, 2016

All set to brew a big batch of "Base Street" (recipe below) with all of the feedback I read in this thread on Monday. Pretty damn excited, but any and all feedback is welcome:

Batch Size (Gallons): 12
Original Gravity: 1.076
Final Gravity: 1.020
IBU: 25.71
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 5.9

Grain Bill:
58% Great Western 2 Row
30% White Wheat Malt
4% Cara-Pils
1.5% Crystal 10
3% Crystal 20
13.5% Dextrose

12 oz of Acid Malt for Mash pH

Mash at 150F for 60 mins

Hops:
1.35 Columbus @ 60min

Batch 1:
1.5oz Columbus Dry Hop - Trillium Yeast
6oz Mosaic Dry Hop - Trillium Yeast

Batch 2:
1.5 Columbus Dry Hop - 1318 Yeast
6oz Galaxy Dry Hop - 1318 Yeast

Yeast(s):
Batch 1: Trillium Can Harvest - 2L starter
Batch 2: Wyeast 1318 - 2L starter

Water:
Ca: 147.58
Mg: 30.55
Na: 9.00
Sulfate: 207.24
Chloride: 101.48

OdeCloner · Oct 7, 2016

Looks great! One thing...I would revisit the water. 150 Chloride, 150 Sulfate has been my sweet spot. Definitely need to up the Chlorides to get the round mouthfeel.

Bramstoker17 · Oct 17, 2016

lilbova3 said:
Brewer told my buddies in the first few minutes they were there that they used Conan. JC isn't giving up quality because he knows Conan is more reliable - attenuation, yeast counts, viability and floccs. 1318 isn't as reliable which would lead to less quality in his beer.

Im in no way disputing what your buddy heard, I'm just very surprised by this. I've heard a number of people saying that Conan is a finicky strain to work with. I've always had 1318 behave very predictably for me. On the BA forums JC has said WLP 007 for clone attempts. So take that for what its worth.

Having used both Conan and 1318 in NE style pales, I'd be shocked if Trillium used Conan

American IPA Trilium Melcher Street Clone

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

Invented the IPL

Well-Known Member

Invented the IPL

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Invented the IPL

Active Member

Invented the IPL

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Invented the IPL

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads