Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

smacksfrog · Jun 21, 2015

Well, I need to drive and go get more yeast balls- I've convinced myself mine are broken. My wine always turns out lower abv than everyone on here and I really don't like the flavor- tart, sour... just not pleasant. It's never been "fizzy" when i sample it like some report... etc.

To that point- I wanted to see what my ABV was with my most recent attempt, here at the 14 day mark. The rice liquefied very quickly and my airlock was going just fine for a while- so I wanted to see what abv I was at early (since the taste gets worse and worse IMO the longer it's fermenting) and also since I know from experience the ABV of my wine turns out around 10% after 3-4 weeks.

I give to you: measuring ABV without knowing starting gravity. I made it myself ;-)
Step 1- Measure the SG of a known volume of wine.. I did 1/2cup
Step 2- Heat the wine on your stove until almost boiling - you're going to boil off some water but also all of the alcohol- keep the heat under boiling so we don't lose anything other than water or etoh.
step 3- cool the etoh-less wine. make it back up to the original volume with water.
step 4- get the SG
using these 2 SG you can get your ABV. Here's an excel.

To use the excel, put in your SG readings. Make sure your solver add-in is active and use it to set the p1 objective to the p1 check value, then solve. If it solves correctly, your ABV should be there.
If excel solver isn't working, you can put "solve x*(y/(x-1)-.79*(y/(x-1)=z" into wolfram alpha. x is the second SG reading minus 1 and z is the first minus .789. Once alpha gives you that value, you can just type that in for p1 and your ABV should be correct.

Anyway, I'm off to go get new yeasty balls, but I thought I'd share my ABV method because it's cool. It's very sensitive to errors in SG reading so please be accurate ;-)

tl;dr- my wine always turns out bad and to prove it to myself i measure my ABV. I presented the method here as FYI

smacksfrog · Jun 21, 2015

I just realized how easy that method can be: Just take the difference in the 2 sg readings and divide it by .211. /simplify
Made that so complicated....

MasterCrook · Jun 22, 2015

ssf1911 said:
I've been wondering if there were any other Canadians that's into the rice wine, good to see there are. Any of you guys in Ontario?

I picked up 2 packs on the Onto Yeast last week and I look forward to trying it.

The pic is a bottle of my last batch, made with a mix of glutinous rice, jasmine rice, and the supermarket Shanghai yeast balls. I fermented it out for 45 days and its pretty tart and dry, alcohol was around 10%. This bottle was taken from the top of the fermenter and its really clear without any filtering. I'm hoping to make my next batch sweeter and less tart. Should I try pasteurisation to halt fermentation mid-way through?

I just picked up 2 pounds of Onto Yeast for my next batch. How did your onto yeast batch go?

MasterCrook · Jun 22, 2015

Has anyone tried Onto Yeast?

Lebl468 · Jun 22, 2015

MasterCrook said:
Has anyone tried Onto Yeast?

Yup, bought 2 bags, they work good, not a bad batch yet.

MasterCrook · Jun 22, 2015

Lebl468 said:
Yup, bought 2 bags, they work good, not a bad batch yet.

Awesome, that's great news. Have you used the regular chinese yeast balls before? If so, did you notice any difference? Also, did you follow the instructions on their site or stick to your own yeast to rice ratio?

Lebl468 · Jun 22, 2015

MasterCrook said:
Awesome, that's great news. Have you used the regular chinese yeast balls before? If so, did you notice any difference? Also, did you follow the instructions on their site or stick to your own yeast to rice ratio?

I have not used the regular Chinese balls, these were the only ones I couod find in Canada. But figuring they were made in North America, quality control may be better production batch to production batch. I have been using one ball to one cup of uncooked rice. Overkill probably, but I have lots.

MasterCrook · Jun 22, 2015

Lebl468 said:
I have not used the regular Chinese balls, these were the only ones I couod find in Canada. But figuring they were made in North America, quality control may be better production batch to production batch. I have been using one ball to one cup of uncooked rice. Overkill probably, but I have lots.

I think so too, the quality should be better. I met with the Onto Yeast people in person, they seem like good people. They said the flavour is different compared to the Chinese ones. I've noticed right away the texture, size, and smell is different. They seem softer and have a floral fragrance. I'm looking forward to trying them.

billsea · Jun 23, 2015

Does the amount of water that you use depend on the kind of jasmine rice that you buy?

I am about to start my 4th batch. My first batch I rinsed then soaked for 2 hrs. then boiled. Then I thought it looked too dry so I added some more water. The wine was a little harsh but mellowed after a few weeks.

Then I read more of this thread (whew) and I learned that using less water can make a smoother/sweeter wine.

On my second batch and third batch I rinsed the rice but did not soak, and added just the amount of water called for on the rice bag. These two batches came out much more too my liking - sweet and smooth.

So now I am becoming more aware of the amount of water to use. So today I shopped for jasmine rice and read the bags in the market. Some of the bags say to add 1 1/4 cups of water to one cup of rice. Some say 1 1/2, and some say 2 cups of water per cup of rice.

Is there really a difference in the different types of jasmine rice that make some require more water than others? Any rice experts out there?

MasterCrook · Jun 23, 2015

billsea said:
Does the amount of water that you use depend on the kind of jasmine rice that you buy?

I am about to start my 4th batch. My first batch I rinsed then soaked for 2 hrs. then boiled. Then I thought it looked too dry so I added some more water. The wine was a little harsh but mellowed after a few weeks.

Then I read more of this thread (whew) and I learned that using less water can make a smoother/sweeter wine.

On my second batch and third batch I rinsed the rice but did not soak, and added just the amount of water called for on the rice bag. These two batches came out much more too my liking - sweet and smooth.

So now I am becoming more aware of the amount of water to use. So today I shopped for jasmine rice and read the bags in the market. Some of the bags say to add 1 1/4 cups of water to one cup of rice. Some say 1 1/2, and some say 2 cups of water per cup of rice.

Is there really a difference in the different types of jasmine rice that make some require more water than others? Any rice experts out there?

Did the extra water you added boil off? Extra water during fermentation will make the wine drier and more sour. I haven't tried boiling the rice, only steaming. I think the popular method is 1:2 ratio rice:water for boiling

billsea · Jun 24, 2015

MasterCrook said:
Did the extra water you added boil off? Extra water during fermentation will make the wine drier and more sour. I haven't tried boiling the rice, only steaming. I think the popular method is 1:2 ratio rice:water for boiling

I follow the package directions for cooking the rice. Add the rice to the water, bring it to a soft boil, turn down the heat, cover the pot, simmer for 20 min. I think that very little water is lost to boiling. All is absorbed into the rice.

I also think that pre-soaking the rice for an hour or two would add more water to the rice. I don't know how much. I stopped doing that.

The rice that I bought for my next batch says to add 1 1/2 cups water to one cup of rice. Still can't wrap my mind around why some jasmine rice packages call for almost 40% more water than others.

MasterCrook · Jun 24, 2015

billsea said:
I follow the package directions for cooking the rice. Add the rice to the water, bring it to a soft boil, turn down the heat, cover the pot, simmer for 20 min. I think that very little water is lost to boiling. All is absorbed into the rice.

I also think that pre-soaking the rice for an hour or two would add more water to the rice. I don't know how much. I stopped doing that.

The rice that I bought for my next batch says to add 1 1/2 cups water to one cup of rice. Still can't wrap my mind around why some jasmine rice packages call for almost 40% more water than others.

Just a guess, but maybe dryness of the grains, size, age, might be factors

user 211287 · Jun 25, 2015

xMalachi said:
I'm having a hard time finding yeast balls. Anyone want to sell me some? I'd buy them online but shipping is insane!

Hi, i just joined the forum and i saw you have an old post about finding yeast balls in the STL area.

Seafood City on Olive east of 170 carries both the small Vietnamese style and Heng Lung yeast balls $1.60/12 balls. They also had red yeast rice close to the yeast balls. $2.00/14oz

Olive Market is just across the street from Seafood City and they also have a big selection of hard to find Asian items.

Global Foods on 421 S Kirkwood should carry some also but i will check next time i go there.

At Fee Fee and Olive there is another good size Asian Market with mostly Chinese items.

At 141 and Olive there are two Korean Markets. They may not have yeast balls but they should carry Nuruk.

user 211287 · Jun 25, 2015

I started my first batch yesterday.

5 cups of dry rice. Half Sweet rice and half Jasmine. Well rinsed and soaked over night. Then rinsed again. Cooked with a little less water than normal.

4 Heng Lung yeast balls.

Im letting it sit in a warm upstairs closet for the first 36-48 hours in a pail with a air lock. Im may try adding more rice to it after it gets moved to a cooler room. I normally eat Koshihikari rice which is a true short grain sushi rice.

Jasmine and sweet rice should be very good for starch to sugar conversions. They are both high on the glysemic index. Jasmine being one of the highest at over 100. Both are also very cheap compared to real sushi rice varieties such as Koshihikari, Hitomebore and Akitakomachi.

Zymomancer · Jun 25, 2015

Has anyone had problems with mold spores getting loose when making this and infecting things nearby (like other fermentations)? Is the smell particularly stronger or worse than your traditional carboy-with-airlock setup? I'm guessing that I'm worrying about nothing, but I just wanted to ask.

I assume this has been mentioned somewhere in this giant thread, but the yeast balls and red yeast rice are generally called "jiuqu"... the wikipedia page gives you a good idea of what's in there:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiuqu

Jiuqu consists of a complex mixture of various molds, yeasts, and bacteria with their associated metabolites, cultured on a starch-rich substrate in a solid state fermentation process. They are typically stored and sold in the form of dried bricks (Daqu), balls (Xiaoqu e.g. Shanghai Yeast Balls), powders or as dried grains (Red Yeast Rice). The most common organisms found in Jiuqu are the filamentous molds Aspergillus oryzae and Rhizopus oryzae and the amylolytic yeast Saccharomycopsis fibuligera. Amylolytic and proteolytic enzymes are the most abundant metabolites isolated.

Also, this is a pretty cool sister thread about using grains other than rice, in case anyone's not noticed it:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=496435

Cheeto · Jun 25, 2015

Easy and simple answer.. Make your rice wine in a different place than you're beer..

It is not uncommon for cross contamination to happen

danmerk23 · Jun 28, 2015

I think this has been answered within the 200 pages but is white fuzz ok on top of the fermentation? There are tiny little black specks in one spot but I thought I read that it was ok.

Is this true?

I'm super clean with everything and made this a ton. I've seen this before.

I made a batch and in 12 hours I have the fuzz AND co2 going.

user 211287 · Jun 29, 2015

Test batch RYR+Yeast

I found a similar recipe online but i used different rices. You would normally use just sweet rice but i wanted to try some of my higher end sushi rice for this batch. Jasmine was added mainly to increase the starch content.

2 dry cups Kagayaki Select Koshihikari rice
1 dry cup Jasmine
6tbs RYR before grinding
1 Heng Lung yeast ball
1tbs sugar
1tbs sweet rice flour

Rice well rinsed, soaked 8 hours then cooked with just enough water to cover the rice in the cooker and allowed to cool over night.

RYR and yeast ball ground together. A quick mix with the sugar and sweet rice four. The flour is also called glutinous rice starch.

Mix it all together and put in mason jars as usual.

One jar i added a tiny bit of water to see how it compares to the other. Around 4tbs of purified water was added.

MasterCrook · Jun 29, 2015

danmerk23 said:
I think this has been answered within the 200 pages but is white fuzz ok on top of the fermentation? There are tiny little black specks in one spot but I thought I read that it was ok.

Is this true?

I'm super clean with everything and made this a ton. I've seen this before.

I made a batch and in 12 hours I have the fuzz AND co2 going.

This is normal, and a good sign

MasterCrook · Jun 29, 2015

Evilgrin said:
Test batch RYR+Yeast

I found a similar recipe online but i used different rices. You would normally use just sweet rice but i wanted to try some of my higher end sushi rice for this batch. Jasmine was added mainly to increase the starch content.

2 dry cups Kagayaki Select Koshihikari rice
1 dry cup Jasmine
6tbs RYR before grinding
1 Heng Lung yeast ball
1tbs sugar
1tbs sweet rice flour

Rice well rinsed, soaked 8 hours then cooked with just enough water to cover the rice in the cooker and allowed to cool over night.

RYR and yeast ball ground together. A quick mix with the sugar and sweet rice four. The flour is also called glutinous rice starch.

Mix it all together and put in mason jars as usual.

One jar i added a tiny bit of water to see how it compares to the other. Around 4tbs of purified water was added.

Interesting, why add sugar though?

user 211287 · Jun 29, 2015

MasterCrook said:
Interesting, why add sugar though?

Im not sure but a couple Fujian wine recipes called for a little sugar. I was going to use Korean rice syrup instead but i forgot.

http://carolynjphillips.blogspot.com/2011/08/scarlet-rice-wine-of-northern-fujian.html

http://allthatmatters2rei.blogspot.com/2008/06/red-glutinous-rice-wine.html

user 211287 · Jul 2, 2015

The batch of RYR+Yeast ball+4tbs of added water is already showing over 1/2" of liquid in the bottom and the rice is floating. VERY noticeable alcohol smell.

The batch with no added water has liquid showing in the rice about half way up the jar but the rice is not floating yet. Alcohol smell is MUCH less. It does have more white fuzz in the top inch of the rice.

IMO both look very promising for such a short amount of time.

user 211287 · Jul 2, 2015

Sweet rice and Jasmine batch from 6/25 using only yeast balls is very soupy now. I have not opened the bucket but just tilting it shows the rice moving freely when i hold it upto the light. It was a very firm mass in the beginning. My pail must not seal well because i see no air lock activity.

EDIT:

I just pulled the air lock for a quick sniff. It smells very very nice. Just like all the rice wines i use for cooking.

Strats · Jul 2, 2015

Strats said:
So I strained and bottled what I had done with slightly less then 4c of rice, got 1.25L of liquid. I wanted it to be ready for an event so I stopped it at 16 Days. The liquid is extremely sweet, like a liquid candy. No taste of alcohol at all. After 12 hours of sitting in a cupboard in the dark I opened the swing tops I have it in, no pop/hiss/nothing to indicate co2. Maybe it was too cold for the yeasts but I got the molds to do their work? 58-62f the whole time except for 12hr or so at 80f in the beginning. I'll definitely try making it again when its warmer, but anything to salvage this?

So I put the liquid in a carboy with an airlock and left it alone covered in a garbage bag in my basement for 2 months. Certainly boozy. I'll try making it again now that the weather is warmer.

jedijon · Jul 10, 2015

I made a 5 cup [dry] rice, 3/4 cup refrigerated Koji [not moistened further], champagne yeast pitched on day 2 batch.

It's in a 1 gallon glass jar with a rubber band/towel airlock.

At this point we're ~3 weeks in and there's been lots of liquid for the majority of the process. I've shaken it a bit to redistribute the mass on top [not very successfully], I've stired it [just once...nervously...contamination ya know].

Have no idea what it should be smelling like and/or how to know it's done. And it's smelled like a lot of things, no necessarily like commercial sake.

I've made tons of beer and all kinds of grape/fruit wines. My fear is that this gets an infection [acetobacter or otherwise] and goes south. In the wine world...we keep out the air, but only when mostly done...and fruit removed. Given I'm a sake first-timer I would like to know HOW to know WHEN to do WHAT

If my wine analogy is causing me to stray don't hesitate to point it out. If I've long since crossed the point where you would've thrown out the remaining rice and created an Oxygen-less environment to settle ala wine making...let me know that too! Thanks.

user 211287 · Jul 10, 2015

21-28 days till straining seems to be the norm. Rice should float then fall on its own without mixing?

My 6/29 RYR+Yeastball with a little extra water added though has well over an inch of liquid in the bottom now with the rice floating. Roughly double the liquid of the same batch without 4tbs of water added. Both smell very alcoholic and somewhat fruity.

MasterCrook · Jul 10, 2015

jedijon said:
I made a 5 cup [dry] rice, 3/4 cup refrigerated Koji [not moistened further], champagne yeast pitched on day 2 batch.

It's in a 1 gallon glass jar with a rubber band/towel airlock.

At this point we're ~3 weeks in and there's been lots of liquid for the majority of the process. I've shaken it a bit to redistribute the mass on top [not very successfully], I've stired it [just once...nervously...contamination ya know].

Have no idea what it should be smelling like and/or how to know it's done. And it's smelled like a lot of things, no necessarily like commercial sake.

I've made tons of beer and all kinds of grape/fruit wines. My fear is that this gets an infection [acetobacter or otherwise] and goes south. In the wine world...we keep out the air, but only when mostly done...and fruit removed. Given I'm a sake first-timer I would like to know HOW to know WHEN to do WHAT

If my wine analogy is causing me to stray don't hesitate to point it out. If I've long since crossed the point where you would've thrown out the remaining rice and created an Oxygen-less environment to settle ala wine making...let me know that too! Thanks.

Can you post a pic?

user 211287 · Jul 11, 2015

RYR test batches from 6/29. Never stirred but i have tilted the jar enough to get the liquid to the top layer. Liquid in the top jar is actually 3/4 of the way up the rice. A small amount of sugar and sweet rice flour were added to both. 2/3 Koshihikari sushi rice and 1/3 Jasmine rice.

Top pic RYR+Yeast ball
Bottom pic RYR+Yeast ball+4tbs purified water

MasterCrook · Jul 12, 2015

Looks good! I'll be harvesting a batch today, I'll post some pics

MasterCrook · Jul 13, 2015

Here's my latest batch. I used extra glutinous rice this time and the results were different than thai jasmine. I noticed the smell was more like melon, colour was more yellow, tasted sweeter, more alcohol. I'm letting it settle for a week, than I'll post pics of the cleared wine.

Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

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