Voile BIABasket!!!

[NeoBrew]

I've been admiring all the basket setups people have been using, but couldn't fathom spending hundreds on one. I've also recently upgraded to a RIMS BIAB configuration and have been having some issues with a stuck recirc.

I started thinking, why can't I create a bag that was fitted well enough to get me some of the benefits of a basket? And the vBIABasket was born! :rockin:

Just finished it up today. Unfortunately I won't have time to try it out for a couple weeks. The basic construction is a viole bag in the fustrum shape from BIABrewer.info. The bag is held in shape by a 3/4" x 1/8" aluminum bar bent into a hoop shape.

The bag is nicely fitted such that there is some space between it and the edges of my pot. This will keep grain from sitting against the outer edges witch will be a little cooler, and provide path for wert to flow. I'll be able to hang the bag and do a pour over sparge.

Can't wait to give it a try! What do you all think? Anything I should watch out for?

 

[MaryB]

I would add a stiffener ring around the bottom or it will just sag to a point...

 

[GQT]

I would add a stiffener ring around the bottom or it will just sag to a point...

It in fact is much better sagging to a point than keeping flat.

 

[NeoBrew]

The bottom of the bag will sit on my false bottom.

 

[TexasWine]

The bottom of the bag will sit on my false bottom.

Even when you pull it out?

 

[jamorgan3777]

I think it would be better to round out so that the liquid drains to a single point. I have experimented with many "shapes" of bag bottoms and found that if I can get a cone once lifted, things drain easier.

 

[wilserbrewer]

While I like this idea, I really do, I fear that the wort may just want to short cut the grain bed passing through the side of the bag, so in essence you may be recirculating around the grain bed rather than through it...idk. Probably still work well, not splitting atoms here...

I guess same happens with a basket...

I keep it simple and just recirc with the mash paddle lol, no stuck sparge yet.

 

[NeoBrew]

While I like this idea, I really do, I fear that the wort may just want to short cut the grain bed passing through the side of the bag, so in essence you may be recirculating around the grain bed rather than through it...idk. Probably still work well, not splitting atoms here...

I guess same happens with a basket...

I keep it simple and just recirc with the mash paddle lol, no stuck sparge yet.

I agree. It may just recirc around the grains. The feed into the middle of the grains will help mitigate that some. Right now I'm getting "stuck mash" syndrome, which messes up my temperature with the RIMS. Even if the wert is just flowing around the grain, I'll have temperature consistency. ...but that is not going to help with efficiency and recirc.

The mash paddle is a good plan. The more I try to make this system work, the smarter I think you might be with the KISS method!

 

[NeoBrew]

Even when you pull it out?

No, I see what you mean now. My old bag is a cylinder, and it drains fine. The bottom bows down into a inverted dome. That drips the wert down the center pretty much. The cone shape of this one should be at least better than that.

 

[TexasWine]

Not trying to poo poo your new bag, but I think your efforts are going to be better spent on solving your struck recirc issue. If we assume the grain bed acts in a similar fashion with the new bag, which we have no reason not to, it will be so compacted that minimal wort will flow through it, effectively reducing the volume of water the grain is exposed to. I predict low conversion and a corresponding low efficiency will result.

Also, my experience has been that keeping the bag off the kettle wall does nothing for improved circulation. I used a modified steamer basket (punched out bigger holes) in my set up and still had recirc issues until I changed up a few things in my process. Things like a wider gap in my mill, throttling the pump, etc., all had to be done for it to work.

Again, I hope this new bag works well for you. Your sewing skills exceed mine for sure. Just want you to be fully prepared (maybe with some DME on hand) for your next brew day.

 

[NeoBrew]

Not trying to poo poo your new bag, but I think your efforts are going to be better spent on solving your struck recirc issue.

Understood. I already widened my gap on the last brew, that helped quite a bit, but lowered my efficiency. Still working on dialing things in. I figure I have a few more brews to get through to figure some things out.

A big motivation for this project is that my old bag was starting to show some fatigue at some seams. It was time for a new bag anyway.

 

[1MadScientist]

Good job on making that bag based on the BIABrewer.info thread .:rockin:

 

[PsychoBiter]

I really like the bagsket,
What is your recirculation return look like? Are you just returning to the top of the grain bed? I would think that getting your grains moving around in your bagsket would help with your stuck recirculation/efficiency and temperature consistancey.
I am wanting add a RIMS system to my set up as well and think/hope a recirculation arm that keeps the grains in suspension will keep from getting stuck and improve efficiency. Maybe a spray ball on some line-loc or something else that can agitate the grains.

 

[NeoBrew]

Finally was able to fit in a brew day today. I had mixed results. I think I can say without a doubt that the fitted bag and ring are a gigantic improvement over my first bag. However, my stuck recirc problems are not over.

Having the bag be taught in the kettle takes away all the tangled bag problems. The ring is fantastic for handling the bag over the kettle. No gathering up and tying off means the grain mess is 100% contained, and you have access to the grains while suspended. I actually did a half assed fly spare by using a piece of foil over the grains and ladeling my sparge water on top. I have been doing a dunk sparge, which requires dirtying an extra kettle.

The recirc problem persists however. It seems clear now that the properties of voile to strain out fine particles will clog up when I recirc. I was able to make it work, but it was far from ideal. Lots of stirring and mixing along with varying the pump flow with the valve. I had many excursions from mash temp as a result. I think I managed to keep the mash within a couple of degrees within temp, but the rims tube and wort that was in there was all over the place. It went as much as 4 degrees high and 10 degrees low when the flow was stopped down to try to avoid clogging. This is way less than ideal.

Here is a picture of the grain bag after I emptied it. You can see that the flour built up everyplace it could flow. The dot pattern is from the holes in my false bottom.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1463250644.487689.jpg

Here is a picture of the bag in place during the mash. It's hoisted up a few inches. If you look closely you can see that the bag is full of liquid, but the level in the kettle is way lower. The entire bag is essentially sealed up with flour. Mixing and scraping the sides got things draining again.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1463250692.413908.jpg

I'm not sure if I can overcome this problem. I did try keeping the grains circulating by turning the flow way up to try to blow the flour off the inside of the bag, but it only worked for a couple minutes before it clogged up again.

I think on my next brew I might put the return wert line outside the bag. This will short circuit the bag for the flow of wert. At that point all I'm gaining with all the hardware is holding temps stable, which I'm certain I can do to less than one degree. I'm not getting any efficiency gain from flowing through the grain bed.

It's starting to look like going to a standard three vessel setup would perform a lot better. My kettle is already up to the task of being a mash tun since I have a NorCal false bottom. I would just need to get another kettle. I've been thinking of moving my brewery from the garage to an indoor natural gas setup. Before I invest anymore in this BIAB RIMS, I might just go that route.

 

[NeoBrew]

I really like the bagsket,

What is your recirculation return look like? Are you just returning to the top of the grain bed? I would think that getting your grains moving around in your bagsket would help with your stuck recirculation/efficiency and temperature consistancey.

I am wanting add a RIMS system to my set up as well and think/hope a recirculation arm that keeps the grains in suspension will keep from getting stuck and improve efficiency. Maybe a spray ball on some line-loc or something else that can agitate the grains.

I'm using a 1/2" copper pipe that is capped off. I have a dozen or so 1/8" holes drilled in it to spray the wert in all directions. It sticks down into the center of the mash about 6"