Isolated Yeast (Tree House): How to Identify and Characterize?

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One strain... there was some bacteria as well but that was most likely cause it was from a growler not a packaged product. Definitely not 1318, 1968/002, S-04, or all the yeasts that have been checked... I think it was closest to a Belgian like strain but not that close.
 
couchsending said:
One strain... there was some bacteria as well but that was most likely cause it was from a growler not a packaged product. Definitely not 1318, 1968/002, S-04, or all the yeasts that have been checked... I think it was closest to a Belgian like strain but not that close.
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Interesting. Do you remember which HF beer your sample was from?
 
couchsending said:
One strain... there was some bacteria as well but that was most likely cause it was from a growler not a packaged product. Definitely not 1318, 1968/002, S-04, or all the yeasts that have been checked... I think it was closest to a Belgian like strain but not that close.
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Well I suppose that's a bit of a curveball. In any case, my money would be on WLP510 or maybe WLP515.

Have a look at the link, grassrootsvt is Shaun Hill, maybe there is something to this. here....http://discussions.probrewer.com/archive/index.php/t-16047.html
 
So I under pitched s-04 at 85*. Let it come down to 74* on its own about 8-10 hours. Added 8% wb06 and 3% t58. It sat at 74 for 24 hours. I then brought it down to 68* for 2 days. I hit final gravity 1.018 within 48 hours. Fermented a little too fast and I lost some esters but it is a passion fruit bomb and rather fantastic. Very faint hefe, no pepper.

On another note, I've had both fresh TH and freshly shipped TH. It's different. Surprisingly, It lost some of the bitterness/aroma along the way. Some of those special TH characteristics were missing.
 
Brewindog said:
So I under pitched s-04 at 85*. Let it come down to 74* on its own about 8-10 hours. Added 8% wb06 and 3% t58. It sat at 74 for 24 hours. I then brought it down to 68* for 2 days. I hit final gravity 1.018 within 48 hours. Fermented a little too fast and I lost some esters but it is a passion fruit bomb and rather fantastic. Very faint hefe, no pepper.

On another note, I've had both fresh TH and freshly shipped TH. It's different. Surprisingly, It lost some of the bitterness/aroma along the way. Some of those special TH characteristics were missing.
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Sounds like an awesome beer! I thought about trying this staggered pitch, but ultimately talked myself into adding the wb06 up front with the s04. Next batch will be like you with only s04 out front.
You're saying the shipped Treehouse tastes a lot different than the fresh?
 
overthebarsbrewing said:
Interesting. Do you remember which HF beer your sample was from?
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S&S9

Yeah I read that post on probrewer about 510 as well. Maybe they used that yeast just for this beer? To give it some more character? 510 and 515 are medium floccers though? I'll report back when I actually get to use it.

The TH beers I've had taste the best after a week but kept cold. I think the beer just comes together and is much smoother and round. They're kinda sharp right off the line.

Since I live in UT I have to either ship it back to myself or put as much in my luggage as possible. A couple years ago I shipped a ton of New England beers back to myself in September and some of the Treehouse I grabbed (AE, Haze) lasted about 30 days. The stuff I shipped that got warm started to taste really odd. Not just flavor/aroma loss but really odd flavors. I just chalked it up to all the proteins and Hop oils degrading somehow but I wonder if it was yeast still fermenting in the cans or if the Hop aroma starts to fall off the yeast esters come forward more??
 
Brewindog said:
So I under pitched s-04 at 85*. Let it come down to 74* on its own about 8-10 hours. Added 8% wb06 and 3% t58. It sat at 74 for 24 hours. I then brought it down to 68* for 2 days. I hit final gravity 1.018 within 48 hours. Fermented a little too fast and I lost some esters but it is a passion fruit bomb and rather fantastic. Very faint hefe, no pepper.

On another note, I've had both fresh TH and freshly shipped TH. It's different. Surprisingly, It lost some of the bitterness/aroma along the way. Some of those special TH characteristics were missing.
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was it a highly hopped beer? I would imagine it's going to be difficult to pull out flavors from hops and yeast in these experiments, especially with the varietals/amounts that get used in the IPAs
 
It was different. The flavors were less pronounced still a great beer. I had doppelgänger, green, bright and alter ego both shipped and fresh. Doppelgänger didn't have the bite or bitterness I've had in the past. Green seemed to travel the best out of all of them. Side note - Also had a Trillium ddh congress that traveled very well :)

Hops- citra only. I wanted something semi basic. I did a few late additions and whirlpool. 6 oz total most dry hop. I didn't overly hop this batch compared to others but wish I had.
 
With 33 whopping pages within this thread, and seeing as I'm a very late arrival here, is there a link to a single posting within this thread which gives the so to speak 'Cliffs Notes' version of the dry yeast blends needed to most closely duplicate 'Tree House'?
 
Silver_Is_Money said:
With 33 whopping pages within this thread, and seeing as I'm a very late arrival here, is there a link to a single posting within this thread which gives the so to speak 'Cliffs Notes' version of the dry yeast blends needed to most closely duplicate 'Tree House'?
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33????. Things have gotten interesting within the past 33 pages.:)
 
Brewindog said:
So I under pitched s-04 at 85*. Let it come down to 74* on its own about 8-10 hours. Added 8% wb06 and 3% t58. It sat at 74 for 24 hours. I then brought it down to 68* for 2 days. I hit final gravity 1.018 within 48 hours. Fermented a little too fast and I lost some esters but it is a passion fruit bomb and rather fantastic. Very faint hefe, no pepper.

On another note, I've had both fresh TH and freshly shipped TH. It's different. Surprisingly, It lost some of the bitterness/aroma along the way. Some of those special TH characteristics were missing.
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When you say under pitch, how much yeast did you actually pitch? (Grams or mL)
 
TheHairyHop said:
My neipa with a 93/7 ratio of 04 to 58 is not what I was looking for. It's very dry and not at all thick and creamy like the same recipe but with 1318. The one other difference is that I used comet in this recipe
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so, after the comet calmed the ever loving heck down (holy cow, don't be too aggressive with comet), this beer does have a distinct passion fruit nose and flavor, and I am very familiar with the fruit. When I burp, it goes straight through my nose. The beer is still too thin for my liking, and there is a spice/alcohol flair to it that I don't care for. This flavor could in fact be present in TH beers, but I don't have one on hand for comparison now that I'm on the complete opposite end of the country. I think that there is promise for using T-58 (I've yet to try WB-06) in the future, but I am going to need to crack the mouthfeel issue before I consider it something I will do again
 
@marshallb @melville any updates with your batch?

Today I'll brew and I was wondering what percentage should I test
 
evozero said:
@marshallb @melville any updates with your batch?

Today I'll brew and I was wondering what percentage should I test
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My last one is still conditioning, so I'm not totally sure what it tastes like now, but when I kegged it my inclination was to go a bit higher on my ratios. For my tastes 50/30/20 was too high and I think 79/15/6 might be still too low — and by too low, maybe the variables aren't breaking through enough — it was still tasting very good. I'm brewing tonight and will be giving 65/23/12-ish a go.

Note: I'm pitching all at once, in the middle of Fermentis' recommended range. (roughly 2.27g dry yeast / gallon)
 
evozero said:
@marshallb @melville any updates with your batch?

Today I'll brew and I was wondering what percentage should I test
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Took a gravity sample yesterday and dry hopped, cold crashing today. I won't have anything else until end of next week once I'm carbed.
 
@marshallb the percentages on your blog still represents the closest match you got?

Thank you and @melville for the updates!
 
Seems like curiosity 39 needs to be analyzed.

IMG_4307.PNG
 
For those that have done the copitch with S-04 have you measured the final PH? I got super low final PH with just S-04 (well not super low but lower than other English ale yeasts) closer to 4.1 even with a sizeable DH. I know Julius is 4.4 and Haze is 4.6.

In reading more on S-04 and WB-06 I have seen both described as having a bit of a "twang" to them. I believe it was mentioned in this thread that S-04 produces more acid and that this acid/twang is potentially critical to getting the more "juicy" like character. I wonder what the T/A is like for a TH beer? If it's much different than other similar IPAs? I have the kit. Might have to measure my next batch that I will be trying @marshallb 's latest ratio and maybe measure a few other commercial beers I have on hand.

Gonna do an all Galaxy beer tomorrow. Rahr 2 Row, Carafoam (10%), C40 (2.1%).
 
NJGeorge said:
One of the things that has be baffled is how the beer smelled and looked during early fermentation (very good). I pitched 1g WB-06 once the wort chilled to 66. 24 hours later I pitched 11g of S04 and 1g of T-58 all while fermenting at around 70. The aroma coming out of the fermenter after 2-3 days was amazing. Straight fruit juice. The color was also amazing hazy juicy looking. After about 5 days, the beer cleared significantly and the smell wasn't as fruity juicy. Ill post pictures later tonight. Do you think that the T-58 was too much and changed the beer drying it out? Like you guys said previously, maybe T-58 is just used for carbing/conditioning. Interested to see what would happen if just WB-06 and S04 were used as the primary yeast and cut fermentation a little short. My heads spinning. I just don't understand how the color and smell changed so drastically after adding S04 and T-58.
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Finally got around to posting these pics. The first picture is at day 2-3 when the beer smelled amazing (tropical fruit) and looked hazy. The second picture is at day 7 right before kegging and no the beer was not oxidized. Look at the color change. Also the aroma was nothing like it was when fermenting at day 2-3.

So if I would have pitched all the yeast at once lets say, let it sit for 24 hours at a warm temp and then drop to 60, would I retain all those juicy esters and would the beer be less dry? Would it also stay hazy?

Day 2.jpg


Last Day.jpg
 
NJGeorge said:
Finally got around to posting these pics. The first picture is at day 2-3 when the beer smelled amazing (tropical fruit) and looked hazy. The second picture is at day 7 right before kegging and no the beer was not oxidized. Look at the color change. Also the aroma was nothing like it was when fermenting at day 2-3.



So if I would have pitched all the yeast at once lets say, let it sit for 24 hours at a warm temp and then drop to 60, would I retain all those juicy esters and would the beer be less dry? Would it also stay hazy?
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Very strange that second pic. That definitely hasn't happened to me. Pitching all at once gives me 85% attenuation which seems higher than what other folks are getting in here with the staggered pitches.
 
I don't think that fermentation temp should affect FG too much. Although I do not think that oxidation was an issue, there is nothing about that description or setup that would prevent oxidation once FG was hit.
 
I tasted my month old bottle. It was very weird. Small amounts of something phenolic going on and a lot less juicy than out of the keg. I'm going to tone down my WB06 from now on and keep the T58 low and let the S04 take over.
 
I can't get tinypic to work lately, anyone have photo sharing recommendations?

My beer has been kegged for about a week now. I have to say I'm a bit underwhelmed. The mouthfeel is pretty solid (1.020 FG), but there isn't much aroma (very slight off note of some kind, almost sulfuric?). I'm definitely getting the passion fruit (must be the twang everyone has mentioned) notes, with a subtle hoppiness too. I used 6 oz each in whirlpool and dry hop (as usual). Kind of surprised how little the hops shine. One strange observation, I think I still have yeast in suspension, my glass has a thing film when I get to the bottom, never seen that before...

IMG_0025.jpg
 
Finally got my brew day in. Made 0.5BBL of my standard NEIPA base wort recipe and used Citra/Mosaic hops.

Split it into 3 fermenters and am going to do the following:

FV#1: Used WY1318. Pitched from a starter at standard ~0.75M cells/ml/*P This will get ferm-hopped at day 3. Plan to transfer when ferm complete and will slowly force-carb. Will add keg hops.

FV#2: Same as above but plan to transfer to a keg when ferm complete. Will have keg hops in there and will attempt to naturally carb with CBC-1.

FV#3: Did an initial pitch of 6gm S-04 and 2gm T-58 at ~78*F. My plan is to check SG after ~48-72h and then pitch 2gm of WB-06 with ferm hops when SG is ~4-6pts above expected final SG. Will transfer to a keg with keg hops in there and will attempt to naturally carb with CBC-1.

Hopefully will be interesting!!!
 
marshallb said:
I tasted my month old bottle. It was very weird. Small amounts of something phenolic going on and a lot less juicy than out of the keg. I'm going to tone down my WB06 from now on and keep the T58 low and let the S04 take over.
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Thats the 84/8/8 version with each yeast separated or the one with s04 wb 06 co-pitch
 
overthebarsbrewing said:
Finally got my brew day in. Made 0.5BBL of my standard NEIPA base wort recipe and used Citra/Mosaic hops.

Split it into 3 fermenters and am going to do the following:

FV#1: Used WY1318. Pitched from a starter at standard ~0.75M cells/ml/*P This will get ferm-hopped at day 3. Plan to transfer when ferm complete and will slowly force-carb. Will add keg hops.

FV#2: Same as above but plan to transfer to a keg when ferm complete. Will have keg hops in there and will attempt to naturally carb with CBC-1.

FV#3: Did an initial pitch of 6gm S-04 and 2gm T-58 at ~78*F. My plan is to check SG after ~48-72h and then pitch 2gm of WB-06 with ferm hops when SG is ~4-6pts above expected final SG. Will transfer to a keg with keg hops in there and will attempt to naturally carb with CBC-1.

Hopefully will be interesting!!!
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I'm really glad you are using a "control" with the 1318! If I had the capabilities in my setup, would have done something similar. My only concern with batch 3 is that the WB-06 is the most attenuative, so you will likely be at FG when adding, or farther away from the real FG than you think, if that makes sense. Not sure it's a huge issue though...
 
couchsending said:
For those that have done the copitch with S-04 have you measured the final PH? I got super low final PH with just S-04 (well not super low but lower than other English ale yeasts) closer to 4.1 even with a sizeable DH. I know Julius is 4.4 and Haze is 4.6.

In reading more on S-04 and WB-06 I have seen both described as having a bit of a "twang" to them. I believe it was mentioned in this thread that S-04 produces more acid and that this acid/twang is potentially critical to getting the more "juicy" like character. I wonder what the T/A is like for a TH beer? If it's much different than other similar IPAs? I have the kit. Might have to measure my next batch that I will be trying @marshallb 's latest ratio and maybe measure a few other commercial beers I have on hand.

Gonna do an all Galaxy beer tomorrow. Rahr 2 Row, Carafoam (10%), C40 (2.1%).
Click to expand...

Measured mine last night — 4.4
 
Hi everyone. Sorry for the lack of input of late.

I've brewed about 6 beers with varying success with these yeasts and I've settled on 89/8/3 pitched together and fermented at 67, throwing some hops in with the yeast seems to work very well.

Yesterday I had 2 week old cans of Julius, Green, Haze, Eureka and Sap. They all came across to me as extremely S04 dominant but with subdued esters as if fermented cool. The only beer that I possibly picked up a hint of T-58 WB-06 was Julius...but I'm talking a minuscule amount.

If someone said they were S-04 only...I wouldn't argue. Out of those beers, Green and Sap were tasting particularly magnificent.

I also stumbled upon a Reddit feed where someone wrote:

As far as yeast, inside source has told me new dry yeast every single batch. I know it's safale, just not sure if it's s-04 or s-05.
Hope that held you a bit"

SB
 
evozero said:
Thats the 84/8/8 version with each yeast separated or the one with s04 wb 06 co-pitch
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It was the 84/8/8 version, but the WB06 was added first and let go for 24 hours. So, I have no real idea what the percentage was after the growth phase.
I'd say the S04/WB06 initial co-pitch with the S04/T58 added later is definitely twangy. Overall just tasting it from the fermenter it is a fantastic beer, but it's DDH and I feel like I could have possibly achieved the same thing with 1318 and citric acid. I just hope it doesn't turn the same light phenolic as it ages. Forward we go....
 
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1502891663.327224.jpg
Carafoam FTW. Loving how this turned out, and excited to now turn to tweaking grist components and ratios to suit my personal taste in future beers. Also dying to try a similar approach inside White Labs or Wyeast libraries.

Currently fermenting the same grist with 7% Vienna and 3% munich II added(both Weyermann's).
 
melville said:
View attachment 410972
Carafoam FTW. Loving how this turned out, and excited to now turn to tweaking grist components and ratios to suit my personal taste in future beers. Also dying to try a similar approach inside White Labs or Wyeast libraries.

Currently fermenting the same grist with 7% Vienna and 3% munich II added(both Weyermann's).
Click to expand...

What's in this? Looks awesome.
I upped my carafoam to almost 11% last brew.
 
As a Nottingham dry yeast user, I wonder what the DNA profile of Danstar's Nottingham yeast looks like when stacked against all of the others tested. And what the end result of pitching Nottingham at about 70% followed by about 30% Windsor as soon as the Nottingham fermentation activity is confirmed to be cranking up would accomplish. ???

With some people having stated (in the past, when there was no real way of knowing for sure) that they believe Danstar Nottingham to be a blended strain, as opposed to a single strain, it may hit a range of the desired DNA characteristics that are at presently requiring multiple yeasts.

https://mashmadeeasy.yolasite.com/
 

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