How to build a Brewing Control Panel - HERMS 240V 30 AMP

[Turfgrass]

The wires are back to where I originally had them and with some good results. However, the LCD screen won’t power up and I have hit the reset button and checked for voltage. There is 119v on 3 of the 4 connections at the back of he lcd screen and one 122v.

Also the alarm switch turns on the alarm immediately and I’m not sure if that is suppose to happen, or a set point must first be programmed.?? I don’t know how the pid’s work yet.

The heating element selector switch sends power to the appropriate receptacle, but I did not see if the yellow lights came on when selected and I’ll need to double check that next time around.

The wort and water pump buttons work and delivery power correctly to the receptacle.

Thank you for all of your help.

 

[MikeSkril]

What type of wires did you use internally? I have some extra SOOW 10 gauge wire I could use, but heard that it should be THHM?

Anything will work. I did not look at the type I've used.

SOOW should be fine:

The 'S' in SOOW cable means “Service.” For portable cords that begin with an S but are NOT followed by a J, the voltage rating is 600 volts. The 'OO' means thecable has oil resistant insulation and jacketing. The 'W' means the cable is weather and water resistant.

 

[MikeSkril]

View attachment 554819The wires are back to where I originally had them and with some good results.

Glad to hear that you are making progress! Sometimes you just have to go skiing a few days and things are moving on.

However, the LCD screen won’t power up and I have hit the reset button and checked for voltage. There is 119v on 3 of the 4 connections at the back of he lcd screen and one 122v.

There should be a diagram on the back of the multimeter. Were did you connect the power supply wires and were do these wires go?

Also the alarm switch turns on the alarm immediately and I’m not sure if that is suppose to happen, or a set point must first be programmed.?? I don’t know how the pid’s work yet.

It should only sound if the PID is triggering an alarm, if no alarm is set and it sounds, the wiring is incorrect.
Check this if you have the same PID's:
HLT PID:

– Port 9 and 10 = hot and neutral
– run a jumper wire from the hot port (either 9 or 10) to port 12. (thats for the alarm relay)
– Port 11= run the hot wire to the alarm switch
– Port 6 and 8 = going to the HLT SSR (make sure not mixing up polarisation + and -)
– Port 3 = going to XLR connector (pin number 2)
– Port 4 and 5 = going to XLR connector (pin number 1,3). the 2 wires are interchangeable.

The heating element selector switch sends power to the appropriate receptacle, but I did not see if the yellow lights came on when selected and I’ll need to double check that next time around.

If there is power on the receptacle, the led should be on.

 

[doug293cz]

Two of the PID's are showing the "orAL" condition, which means no temp probe is attached. This may also cause the alarm to be triggered. Check the manual to find out.

Brew on

 

[Turfgrass]

I have have to check the pid wiring when I get home.

I’m also getting some funny multimeter readings that needs discussing.

The main contractor is sending out 120v to the components upstream. The 10 gauge, Black wire from the main contractor that connects to the HLT and Boil contractor are testing at 120v. However, the red wires going into the bottom of the HLT and Boil are reading either 0v or 70volts. The red light on the boil ssr is illuminated and the HLT ssr is not. So, I started to look at the ssr wiring and wasn’t sure if the jumper I made from position 1 on the HLT ssr to position 1 on Boil ssr was okay, or if they needed dedicated runs to the main contactors?Also the “input” side of the ssr are the wires to the pid. Wondering if I had that wrong.

 

[MikeSkril]

View attachment 554860 I have have to check the pid wiring when I get home.

I’m also getting some funny multimeter readings that needs discussing.

The main contractor is sending out 120v to the components upstream. The 10 gauge, Black wire from the main contractor that connects to the HLT and Boil contractor are testing at 120v. However, the red wires going into the bottom of the HLT and Boil are reading either 0v or 70volts. The red light on the boil ssr is illuminated and the HLT ssr is not. So, I started to look at the ssr wiring and wasn’t sure if the jumper I made from position 1 on the HLT ssr to position 1 on Boil ssr was okay, or if they needed dedicated runs to the main contactors?Also the “input” side of the ssr are the wires to the pid. Wondering if I had that wrong.

Where it says INPUT, that's the right side to connect the PID.

On the other side you have high current switching. Just one red wire from the main contactor and a jumper. You are providing power to the SSR's. An SSR is just working like a switch. If the PID sends a signal on the input side, the SSR will close.

 

[Turfgrass]

I checked these two wires and they run back to the upstream side of the main contractor. Opposite sides from each other and it doesn’t seem to matter the order. The multimeter readings for that connection, (blue circle above) reads 119v and 122v.

I also checked the pid wiring and it was all correct. I did connect the temp probe to see if the alarm will quiet and nothing, however I still need to read the pid instructions and I only connected the temp probes to the brew panel and left the kettle pot side disconnected.

 

[Turfgrass]

I just saw your last post and I had the wiring correct for both the high current and the INPUT side.

 

[MikeSkril]

View attachment 554862
I checked these two wires and they run back to the upstream side of the main contractor. Opposite sides from each other and it doesn’t seem to matter the order. The multimeter readings for that connection, (blue circle above) reads 119v and 122v.

Do you have the same multimeter as in my image? Does it say 80-260V?

It's normal that you read about 120V on each wire, which will be 240V together.

If the multimeter is supporting 240V, connected as it should and you have these measurements, your multimeter is broken.

Could it be that you connected it wrong in the first place?

 

[Turfgrass]

It might be broken, bc I’ve had it connected the same way all this time.

 

[Turfgrass]

Things weren’t making sense and multimeter values were off, so I found that one leg of the line voltage was out on the main contractor, sub panel and now main panel. One leg is only producing 5 volts and 120 on the other leg. Neutral and ground wires share a common bus within the main panel. I’m wondering if this is the problem?

60amp sub panel breaker= red and black wires
White stripe wire = ground/neutral bus
Ground= Attached to panel

 

[Turfgrass]

I’ll have to figure out the main panel, but here is the sub.

 

[MikeSkril]

 

[Turfgrass]

Thanks for the diagram and that is exactly how my sub panel is wired. With the sub panel breaker switch off, I have similar readings at the main pain breaker when testing. Everything in the main panel is wired correctly, so I’m wondering if the 60amp breaker feeding the sub panel is faulty. Need to test the breaker.

 

[Turfgrass]

I did a continuity test on the main breaker this afternoon and it turned out to be broken. Already have it swapped out and reading 240v. The sub panel is on point too. Just a few quick tests to see if the 120 and 240 receptacles are okay and flipping around the upside down lcd meter. Looking awesome! Thank you all for your help.

 

[MikeSkril]

I did a continuity test on the main breaker and it turned out to be broken. Already have it swapped out and reading 240v.

You will be an expert after the build!

 

[Turfgrass]

haha.

Any pid setup links on this forum or your site? The included instruction pamphlet doesn’t help a heck of a lot in determining set points.

 

[MikeSkril]

haha.

Any pid setup links on this forum or your site? The included instruction pamphlet doesn’t help a heck of a lot in determining set points.

That should do it:
http://pmod79883.pic31.websiteonline.cn/upload/0bk4.pdf

 

[Turfgrass]

Thank you.

It will take some time to figure out how to use the pid controllers. Starting with the sensor type....no idea what this is considered as far as type goes. Here is the one I bought.

I just need to figure out the pid settings, alarm and why I only measured 120v from each of the 240v element receptacles?? Then I’ll be ready for a kettle test run.

 

[MikeSkril]

Thank you.

It will take some time to figure out how to use the pid controllers. Starting with the sensor type....no idea what this is considered as far as type goes. Here is the one I bought.

That's a PT100. Here is the setup:

 

[Turfgrass]

Right in from of me. Lol. Thank you.

Some of the settings seem obvious and some not so much, such as, digital filtering, hystersis, and all of the pid settings at the bottom of the flow chart. These pid settings already have values set on this chart, go with it?

I assume the alarm settings are based on your temperature requirement. Such as, High limit could mean boil temp 212 or a certain mash temp. Deviation plus or minus a degree for the heating element to kick on and off.

 

[MikeSkril]

Right in from of me. Lol. Thank you.

Some of the settings seem obvious and some not so much, such as, digital filtering, hystersis, and all of the pid settings at the bottom of the flow chart. These pid settings already have values set on this chart, go with it?

I assume the alarm settings are based on your temperature requirement. Such as, High limit could mean boil temp 212 or a certain mash temp. Deviation plus or minus a degree for the heating element to kick on and off.

Just setup the right sensor and make sure that operation mode is PID and MANUAL INHIBIT.

Normally you only want to set the high alarm.

You also want to calibrate the 2 temperature sensors. Heat a cup of water to 150F (use a trusted thermometer). Put the sensors in it, if the PID is not showing the right temperature, use below to correct.

Finally use the UP and DOWN buttons to set the desired HLT temperature, turn on the HLT switch and your element should start heating (the yellow HLT LED will be on).

 

[Turfgrass]

Is hi limit alarm the temp you want for mash in or strike water?

 

[Turfgrass]

With some fine tuning, the calibration of the temp probes went very well. Also the HLT alarm no longer activates once the switch is turned on.

 

[MikeSkril]

View attachment 555088 With some fine tuning, the calibration of the temp probes went very well. Also the HLT alarm no longer activates once the switch is turned on.

Nice! You are getting there!

 

[Turfgrass]

Thank you. The plan is to test run on Sunday and hopefully get my first herms Brew in a few weeks after.

I’ve watched your video a few times and I’m not sure of the timing of the mash and HLT pids.

I assume my mash temp (150) would be set on the Mash PID and then set the HLT temp when done mashing for the sparse water temp. All of which uses the HLT pump.

The transfer the remaking HLT water to boil kettle and set controller to 100%.

???

 

[MikeSkril]

Thank you. The plan is to test run on Sunday and hopefully get my first herms Brew in a few weeks after.

I’ve watched your video a few times and I’m not sure of the timing of the mash and HLT pids.

I assume my mash temp (150) would be set on the Mash PID and then set the HLT temp when done mashing for the sparse water temp. All of which uses the HLT pump.

The transfer the remaking HLT water to boil kettle and set controller to 100%.

???

I suggest getting the Ebook. There are step-by-step instructions for the brew day and much more.

 

[EyeofdaHawk]

Hi Mike, could you possible show me how to wire the volt bit of the volt/amp meter? I've followed your design for the amp bit, but not sure where to wire the volt meter wires. Can't figure exactly from the above discussion. Pretty much done after that.

Thanks

Hawk

 

[Turfgrass]

Purchased last night. Thx

 

[MikeSkril]

Hi Mike, could you possible show me how to wire the volt bit of the volt/amp meter? I've followed your design for the amp bit, but not sure where to wire the volt meter wires. Can't figure exactly from the above discussion. Pretty much done after that.

Thanks

Hawk

Hi Hawk,

If you have the same Volt/AMP meter, than it has 4 connection points.
2 are for the power supply, 240V in our case, 2 are for the donut (used to measure AMP).

The power supply connections are wired to the main power contactor, each leg will supply 120V (wires are interchangeable). Connect the donut to the other 2 points and pass the red wire, going from the main contactor to the SSR, thru the donut.

I hope that helps!

 

[EyeofdaHawk]

Thanks Mike

Have hooked it up like that. Not just have to connected the alarm and it's done.

Cheers

Hawk

 

[Esmitee]

Hi Hawk,



Connect the donut to the other 2 points and pass the red wire, going from the main contactor to the SSR, thru the donut.

I hope that helps!

Hey Mike, by passing only the RED leg of power through the CT, that will only give you the AMPS of the heating elements and not the whole draw of the system, correct?
If you wanted to see ALL of the voltage and AMPs that my control panel is using, I would pass BOTH the RED & Black power supply power through the ct? I'm assuming so? Would that be correct?
Like this?

 

[MikeSkril]

Hey Mike, by passing only the RED leg of power through the CT, that will only give you the AMPS of the heating elements and not the whole draw of the system, correct?
If you wanted to see ALL of the voltage and AMPs that my control panel is using, I would pass BOTH the RED & Black power supply power through the ct? I'm assuming so? Would that be correct?
Like this?View attachment 556342

Yes, only the red cable and it will show you the amp draw of the elements. That's the only important thing anyway as the amp draw from the pumps is not significant.

If you want to pass both wires thru the donut, I think you need to invert the direction of one wire. Like running one wire from one side thru the donut and the 2nd from the other side. Just try it, you won't break anything. Worst case, your reading is incorrect.

Let me know if that worked...

When your element is set to 100% power, the amp meter should show about 22 amp's (if your elements are 5500W).

 

[doug293cz]

Hey Mike, by passing only the RED leg of power through the CT, that will only give you the AMPS of the heating elements and not the whole draw of the system, correct?
If you wanted to see ALL of the voltage and AMPs that my control panel is using, I would pass BOTH the RED & Black power supply power through the ct? I'm assuming so? Would that be correct?
Like this?View attachment 556342

Yes, only the red cable and it will show you the amp draw of the elements. That's the only important thing anyway as the amp draw from the pumps is not significant.

If you want to pass both wires thru the donut, I think you need to invert the direction of one wire. Like running one wire from one side thru the donut and the 2nd from the other side. Just try it, you won't break anything. Worst case, your reading is incorrect.

Let me know if that worked...

When your element is set to 100% power, the amp meter should show about 22 amp's (if your elements are 5500W).

No, you don't want to run both wires thru the current detection coil. If you run both thru in the "normal" direction, then the currents will subtract from each other, and the only current measured will be the imbalance between the red and black wires at the location of the coil. If you run one of the wires in the reverse direction, then the currents will add, and you will read roughly twice the element current (plus the red/black current imbalance.) Just so happens I did a design yesterday that shows how to measure the total element, pump, and electronics current. Note that in this design everything but the pump is running on 240V. If you want to make sure you measure all of the 120V (as well as 240V) current, then all of the 120V must be taken from one and only one of the hot lines (the black hot in the case of the schematic below.)

Brew on

 

[MikeSkril]

No, you don't want to run both wires thru the current detection coil. If you run both thru in the "normal" direction, then the currents will subtract from each other, and the only current measured will be the imbalance between the red and black wires at the location of the coil. If you run one of the wires in the reverse direction, then the currents will add, and you will read roughly twice the element current (plus the red/black current imbalance.) Just so happens I did a design yesterday that shows how to measure the total element, pump, and electronics current. Note that in this design everything but the pump is running on 240V. If you want to make sure you measure all of the 120V (as well as 240V) current, then all of the 120V must be taken from one and only one of the hot lines (the black hot in the case of the schematic below.)

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Esmitee]

Thanks Mike, and Thanks Doug, for clearing that up for me.

I see how in Mike's system, why the CT is placed where it's placed and how it would only read the AMPs/VOLTs of just the elements, IE: after the Main Contactor, before the SSR's.

I figured if the CT was placed on the supply source BEFORE the main contactor [as in your diagram Doug] the CT will read ALL the VOLT/AMPs that the system uses. But I was wrong with putting both hot wires through the CT.

My panel is 50 AMP, with each SSR on it's own circuit. So I think the way I have the power distributed, I would need 2 Volt/Amp meters.
Anyway, I'm assuming again Doug, I could put the CT on either the Red or Black hot wire. or does it have to be on the Black?

 

[doug293cz]

Thanks Mike, and Thanks Doug, for clearing that up for me.

I see how in Mike's system, why the CT is placed where it's placed and how it would only read the AMPs/VOLTs of just the elements, IE: after the Main Contactor, before the SSR's.

I figured if the CT was placed on the supply source BEFORE the main contactor [as in your diagram Doug] the CT will read ALL the VOLT/AMPs that the system uses. But I was wrong with putting both hot wires through the CT.

My panel is 50 AMP, with each SSR on it's own circuit. So I think the way I have the power distributed, I would need 2 Volt/Amp meters.
Anyway, I'm assuming again Doug, I could put the CT on either the Red or Black hot wire. or does it have to be on the Black?

If you want to measure the current used by each element, then you need two meters. If you just want to measure the total system current, then a placement like I used will work with a single meter.

The coil doesn't care what color the wire is, only how much current flows thru the wire (and it must be AC current.) Current flows thru loops, and each load is part of a single loop (in normal systems.) However, many wires in the system will be part of multiple loops. The current measured will depend on what combination of loops the particular length of wire belongs to. I'll put together a little drawing to help explain this.

Brew on

 

[Esmitee]

If you want to measure the current used by each element, then you need two meters. If you just want to measure the total system current, then a placement like I used will work with a single meter.

The coil doesn't care what color the wire is, only how much current flows thru the wire (and it must be AC current.) Current flows thru loops, and each load is part of a single loop (in normal systems.) However, many wires in the system will be part of multiple loops. The current measured will depend on what combination of loops the particular length of wire belongs to. I'll put together a little drawing to help explain this.

Brew on [/QUOYou are the MAN, Doug

If you want to measure the current used by each element, then you need two meters. If you just want to measure the total system current, then a placement like I used will work with a single meter.

The coil doesn't care what color the wire is, only how much current flows thru the wire (and it must be AC current.) Current flows thru loops, and each load is part of a single loop (in normal systems.) However, many wires in the system will be part of multiple loops. The current measured will depend on what combination of loops the particular length of wire belongs to. I'll put together a little drawing to help explain this.

Brew on

Thank you again Doug, You are the man!
I would love to see your drawing.

 

[doug293cz]

OK, here's the drawing. It's a (not unrealistic) representation of current flow in a 50A control panel. I left out all of the switches, contactors, PID's, lights, etc. The arrows show current flow direction during 1/2 of the AC cycle. During the other 1/2 of the cycle current flow is in the opposite direction.

• The wire segment with 48A is part of 4 loops
• The wire segment with 47A is part of 3 loops
• The wire segments with 46A are part of 2 loops
• The wire segments with 23A are part of 1 loop
• The wire segment with 2A is part of 2 loops
• The wire segments with 1A are part of 1 loop

If you put the input black and red wires thru the current detection coil, you would measure 2A. If you put the input black, red and white wires thru the coil, you would measure zero amps, and in fact, this is exactly what is done inside your 240V GFCI circuit breaker.

Brew on

 

[EyeofdaHawk]

Hi again, sorry this is an addtional question. I'm trying to figure out how to wire int he alarm, from 2 Ezboil, (120 and 320) and a SYL. Alarm wiring appears to be both 1+2 and 13+14. I'm not using a timer, and so will go straight to the alarm and alarm off switch. Can i just wire up the DSPRs and SYL in parallel and wire the Ezboil 120 (closest to alarm/switch) to the alarm/switch, similar to your design? I'm just confused where it all has to go (from which Ezboil/SYL connector).

This literally is the last bit. After this i rewire the garage (to handle the ampage) and hey presto, brewery operational (provided it all works).

Thanks

Hawk