English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[JKaranka]

The one I get most often is this one. Bitter, hoppy, very pale. Easy drinking, crisp and refreshing too.

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/otley-o4-columbo/141105/

 

[Hanglow]

I think one of the problems with current homebrewing is people using the Tinseth formula for bitterness. Graham Wheeler has ranted about this before on forums and blog posts, how tinseth is useless for estimating true IBUs - Boddingtons used to be 35 IBU measured or so back when it was good in the mid 70s, but if you used tinseth in brewing software then you'd really have to use enough hops in your recipe to calculate closer to 55 IBUs to get the right, measured, figure.

Hopcraft are a brewery who put the theoretical IBUs on their pumpclips, a lot of their golden ales say they are 50, 60, 70, 80 IBUs but I suspect as they are such a small outfit that that is just the calculated IBUs and in reality it's much lower, if one was to measure them . Still tasty beers but wouldn't fit in the BJCP guidelines like you say


And that's before you even get to finishing gravity and the mineral makeup of the liquor which all affect the perception of that bitterness

 

[Hanglow]

The one I get most often is this one. Bitter, hoppy, very pale. Easy drinking, crisp and refreshing too.

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/otley-o4-columbo/141105/

I see M&S sell it, I'll look out for it net time I'm in

My favourite is Fyne Jarl, it's great on draught but Morrisons in scotland sell it by the bottle too so I often buy it that way too. It's an all citra one

 

[JKaranka]

I know the Hopcraft guys. Their IBU calculations would be difficult as they add most of the hops post-boil. Good, tasty beers, though. I went to a tasting event in a pub shortly after they opened. Pints and pints of free beer. Good memories.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I found myself listening to the "Best Bitter" episode of "Brewing With Style" while on my long drive down to judge a comp yesterday. I wanted to scream. The guidelines are bad enough. JZ said they were wrong (fair enough), but in reality what he was spouting was even worse.

 

[JKaranka]

I found myself listening to the "Best Bitter" episode of "Brewing With Style" while on my long drive down to judge a comp yesterday. I wanted to scream. The guidelines are bad enough. JZ said they were wrong (fair enough), but in reality what he was spouting was even worse.

Hah, yeah. The other day I took a picture of a particularly pale pint of bitter to show people they can indeed be truly pale. I doubt it had anything else than pale malt and a dash of wheat.

 

[tgif]

I found myself listening to the "Best Bitter" episode of "Brewing With Style" while on my long drive down to judge a comp yesterday. I wanted to scream. The guidelines are bad enough. JZ said they were wrong (fair enough), but in reality what he was spouting was even worse.

I'm just curious, what would you propose as an alternative?

 

[lowtones84]

First brew since November tomorrow, and it's a tough decision between by house mild or house bitter with some slight modification for a "winter" version. My usual house bitter (four gallon batch):

Est OG: 1.046
Est IBU: 30ish
Est SRM: 6.3

4 lb., 14 oz. MO
10 oz. Flaked Barley
4 oz. Crystal 77L
6 oz. invert #2ish
1.5 oz. Acid Malt (ph adjustment)

.33 oz. Target (11 %) @ 60
.13 oz. Target @ 20
.25 oz. EKG @ 20
.17 oz. Target @ FO
.25 oz. EKG @ FO
.4 oz. Target Hopstand @ 70F for 30 min. (Target temp for both additions was 170)
.75 oz. EKG Hopstand @170F for 30 min.

Thoughts on modifications: Toasted flaked oats instead of flaked barley, some Bramling Cross late instead of the target, perhaps some biscuit malt for that toasted bread quality, 1 oz. of black patent to approach a more copper color (or just using a darker crystal).

Just bouncing some ideas off of the great minds around here. Cheers, fellas!

 

[Qhrumphf]

I'm just curious, what would you propose as an alternative?

Something more in line with reality. He clearly based everything off of London Pride. And most US judges do as well. Because it's the only one they know. Which is not typical of all of them by a long shot. Even the BJCP guidelines are closer than what he was calling them.

 

[JKaranka]

Something more in line with reality. He clearly based everything off of London Pride. And most US judges do as well. Because it's the only one they know. Which is not typical of all of them by a long shot. Even the BJCP guidelines are closer than what he was calling them.

Does London Pride come across as clearly dry hopped in the US? Not all special bitters are dry hopped in the UK although many are.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Does London Pride come across as clearly dry hopped in the US? Not all special bitters are dry hopped in the UK although many are.

No. It comes across as a malt bomb. Almost every other Bitter I've had clearly has a higher hopping rate, or is much more fresh.

 

[JKaranka]

No. It comes across as a malt bomb. Almost every other Bitter I've had clearly has a higher hopping rate, or is much more fresh.

The cask and the cans are better at keeping the dry hop aroma. Very floral. It's quite balanced between hop and malt. Much more bitter and less malty than any German beer (I always get London Pride on the plane back from Germany). ESB is more on the malty side. Neither one is the palest or hoppiest nor the maltiest. ESB on the malty side but LP is middle of the road.

 

[Qhrumphf]

The cask and the cans are better at keeping the dry hop aroma. Very floral. It's quite balanced between hop and malt. Much more bitter and less malty than any German beer (I always get London Pride on the plane back from Germany). ESB is more on the malty side. Neither one is the palest or hoppiest nor the maltiest. ESB on the malty side but LP is middle of the road.

Yeah, London Pride I definitely find more bitter than the ESB, but more malty than other Special Bitters (only one I've had to come close is the Wadworth 6X). The ESB's a straight up cloying caramel mess. Now, most Strong Bitters that make it over here are very strong and very malty, but from what I understand the Export formulations (perhaps even for the Special Bitters) are different than the domestic ones.

They're also all old, and that's part of the problem. My guess, because Fullers is distributed far more widely than others, it may actually see more shelf time than others do. I don't buy it often, so I don't remember the dates. I got cases of Coniston, Wadworth, and Timothy Taylor that from date stamps (except the TT where I couldn't find one) seem to suggest a couple months old, and they all taste it. I bought a pack of Sam Smith Organic Pale Ale that was several years old after I was able to check the stamp (Samuel Smith's also getting wide distribution). I see bottles of Cotleigh Tawny Owl from time to time with a best by date stamp of 2011. So most of them have that cellar caramel sweetness.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Here's an Ordinary Bitter showcasing WGV I brewed Sunday night (mashed at 152F, fermenting at 67F, has just gone quiet today), repitched from my previous Pale Mild (I'll be tapping a pin of that tonight). It's strikingly similar to my previous Bramling Cross Bitter, just significantly lower gravity and hopped a little differently. While I kill off the last of a pin of the BX Bitter. Which came out beautifully.

In both cases, I targeted my go-to profile for Bitter using some gypsum and CaCl, with an approximate profile of ~100ppm calcium, ~20ppm sodium, ~70ppm chloride, ~175ppm sulfate, and my base water is ~75ppm alkalinity but knocked down with acid.

5 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 85.1 %
6.0 oz Crystal Dark - 77L (Crisp) (75.0 SRM) Grain 2 6.4 %
8.0 oz UK Invert #2 (32.5 SRM) Sugar 3 8.5 %
0.75 oz Phoenix [10.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 32.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Whitbread Golding Variety (WGV) [8.70 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5 8.8 IBUs
0.25 oz Phoenix [10.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 2.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Whitbread Golding Variety (WGV) [8.70 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg West Yorkshire Ale (Wyeast Labs #1469) Yeast 8 -
1.00 oz Whitbread Golding Variety (WGV) [8.70 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs

Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Measured Original Gravity: 9.0 Plato
Est Final Gravity: 2.0 Plato
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 3.7 %
Bitterness: 42.9 IBUs
Est Color: 7.6 SRM

Gravity sample of this before hitting with dry hops, hit 2°P right on the nose (that's ~1.036 to ~1.008). And I absolutely love it. Gonna put it into pins on Friday.

 

[lowtones84]

Nice, I've never used phoenix or whitbread golding. I'll be brewing mine tomorrow, likely with an EKG/Fuggles combo, though I do have some Bramling Cross squirreled away...

 

[JKaranka]

Aiming at an EIPA with EKG and Cascade for the next one. Just in time to serve at my birthday :-D All MO and a tad of sugar, aiming at 1.055 and 45IBU aprox. Some amylase enzyme to keep it dry.

 

[Snubnoze707]

The poor selection of English Bitters in the states is what led me to start homebrewing in the first place. We get a handful of old bottles from the UK, and American Brewer interpretations of "ESB" which are mostly based on those non fresh bottles. Malt bombs with not much hop character.

I haven't been to England to try the real deal, but there is a brewery in San Francisco called Magnolia who take a traditional approach to bitters with all English ingredients and use of casks. This place really made me fall in love with the style. My experiences there along with great information on the web like this forum and The Perfect Pint Blog has helped me produce my own.

Whenever I have someone try my bitter, I call it a bitter and 9/10 the response is "oh an ESB?", then they typically think it's too light in color and too hoppy for the style, but really enjoy it.

Here is my most recent one with Golden Promise, Marris Otter, Torrified Wheat, First Gold, Syrian Goldings, and Fullers yeast:

 

[unionrdr]

i like the shape of these bottles, & would like to collect enough to bottle my ESB's in. Old school shape would be fitting.

 

[JKaranka]

That does sound nice. If I take SNPA as a comparison, I'd say a special / premium bitter is both less malty and less hoppy. Often paler as well. But I tend to find most American beers to be very malty. Some of them unbearably malty (like Hop Rod IPA and almost any big beer). They just have more hops to try to compensate, but really I'd prefer them to be leaner and drier. Comparing with German styles, pretty much all British styles are more bitter and hoppier and less malty. Maybe not porters, but the rest tend to be. Czech beers will be as bitter as British ones but all the German ones are quite mellow.

The poor selection of English Bitters in the states is what led me to start homebrewing in the first place. We get a handful of old bottles from the UK, and American Brewer interpretations of "ESB" which are mostly based on those non fresh bottles. Malt bombs with not much hop character.

I haven't been to England to try the real deal, but there is a brewery in San Francisco called Magnolia who take a traditional approach to bitters with all English ingredients and use of casks. This place really made me fall in love with the style. My experiences there along with great information on the web like this forum and The Perfect Pint Blog has helped me produce my own.

Whenever I have someone try my bitter, I call it a bitter and 9/10 the response is "oh an ESB?", then they typically think it's too light in color and too hoppy for the style, but really enjoy it.

Here is my most recent one with Golden Promise, Marris Otter, Torrified Wheat, First Gold, Syrian Goldings, and Fullers yeast:

 

[Qhrumphf]

That does sound nice. If I take SNPA as a comparison, I'd say a special / premium bitter is both less malty and less hoppy. Often paler as well. But I tend to find most American beers to be very malty. Some of them unbearably malty (like Hop Rod IPA and almost any big beer). They just have more hops to try to compensate, but really I'd prefer them to be leaner and drier. Comparing with German styles, pretty much all British styles are more bitter and hoppier and less malty. Maybe not porters, but the rest tend to be. Czech beers will be as bitter as British ones but all the German ones are quite mellow.

How old are you getting SNPA? I'm guessing it's age. It's very hoppy, but not particularly malty at all. Age would bring out malt sweetness, and darken it too. Exactly what we see from most European imports.

 

[JKaranka]

How old are you getting SNPA? I'm guessing it's age. It's very hoppy, but not particularly malty at all. Age would bring out malt sweetness, and darken it too. Exactly what we see from most European imports.

Up to quite fresh in keg at times, but yeah, most of the bottled stuff doesn't come across that fresh. I think American beers tend to have a more robust malt backbone anyway (crystal malts, more OG, etc.). Even the bigger British beers like Old Tom are medium to medium-high bodied rather than massive malt bombs.

 

[Qhrumphf]

American craft beers tend to have higher finishing gravities in my experience, and are more inclined to be all-malt than English and Belgian beers (although not as stodgy about it as the Germans). So I could see what you're saying.

 

[lowtones84]

I think I'm about to commit treason on my special winter bitter. I want something nice and malty, a slightly reddish copper, but with a firm hop bitterness and late character. I want it to have a full body despite it being only 1.044-1.048 OG. I also want it to have a little bit of that toasted bread/biscuity flavor of some pale ales. This will never be a standard house recipe, more like a "special release." My MO is a touch old and hasn't been stored in the absolute best environment, so I wanted to give it a little help. I know the amount of specialty malts is not traditional at all, but any thoughts?

Bitter Winter (4 gallons)

Est. OG: 1.044-1.048
Est. IBU: 35-40
Est. SRM: 12-14

4.5 lb. MO
.5-75 lb. Flaked Oats
4 oz. Biscuit
4 oz. Dark Crystal
6 oz. Invert
(4 oz melanoidin or c77? Amber malt?)

.33 oz. Challenger (8.9%AA) @60
.25 oz. EKG (6.4%AA) @60
.25 oz. Challenger @20
.25 oz. EKG @20
.55 oz. Challenger @ FO (hopstand?)
.45 oz. EKG (hopstand?)

WLP013

I also have lighter crystal, chocolate, pale chocolate, roasted barley, and a few other malts on hand if anyone would add/subtract/replace anything. Also have an oz. of Fuggles I could play with. I'm okay with not fitting into style guidelines exactly on this one as long as I have a nice beer with some good English character. Thanks gents!

 

[JKaranka]

Having Marston's Owd Rodger for the first time. Not bad. Near flat, no head. Dark brown (like a lighter porter). No roast flavours, but mainly lots of sweetish malt and a big hit of sugar cane and alcohol. Quite a blatant toffee and stewed fruit type of flavour a bit like Christmas pudding. Lingering bitterness but could do with a bit more hops in there.

 

[iijakii]

Anyone currently on that's made Invert before? I was expecting it to be more bubbly. It's sitting at 245ish right now according to my thermometer, but just sitting there still. I wonder if my thermometer just doesn't read that high of temperatures well? It's not a candy thermometer for sure. I guess Im expecting it to be reducing more...

It was quite foamy when bringing up to temp but has died off completely now.

 

[JKaranka]

Homed in what type of EIPA I'm making tomorrow (just under 6% abv, around 50IBU). Aiming at floral and drinkable. Just about nudging into trans-Atlantic.

For 6 US gallons

11lb Maris Otter
1lb Flaked Maize

60m - 1oz Challenger
15m - 2oz EKG, 1oz Cascade
Hopstand - 1oz EKG, 1oz Cascade
Dry hop - 2oz EKG, 1oz Cascade

Current yeast choice is the MJ West Coast (could say it's second generation migrant British yeast).

 

[balrog]

Anyone currently on that's made Invert before? I was expecting it to be more bubbly. It's sitting at 245ish right now according to my thermometer, but just sitting there still. I wonder if my thermometer just doesn't read that high of temperatures well? It's not a candy thermometer for sure. I guess Im expecting it to be reducing more...

It was quite foamy when bringing up to temp but has died off completely now.

Didn't see this until today (clearly I spend too little time online)
How'd it turn out for you?
When I made some #2-ish, and the few other candy making episodes, the boiling sugar solution has plateaus, and in between those interminable plateau times are freakishly quick, panic-inducing temperature jumps.

 

[iijakii]

Didn't see this until today (clearly I spend too little time online)
How'd it turn out for you?
When I made some #2-ish, and the few other candy making episodes, the boiling sugar solution has plateaus, and in between those interminable plateau times are freakishly quick, panic-inducing temperature jumps.

It didnt turn out well. I think I made more candy instead. I'll probably get a proper candy thermometer and try again one of these days.

 

[balrog]

It didnt turn out well. I think I made more candy instead. I'll probably get a proper candy thermometer and try again one of these days.

I found I had to constantly adjust heat (down) to keep from jumping temp to fast and scorching. Also, a reliable thermometer is crucial to keep you from being way past hard crack stage when you think you're at soft ball stage. Or maybe the good cooks recognize easily with practice where they are, but for me, it takes a long freaking time to make this stuff and I don't see "practicing" too much in my future.

 

[iijakii]

Yeah it'll be awhile before I try it again. Probably wait until I get to try a quality DEM made with one and feel the need.