Crispness and how to achieve it

[BroStefan]

I recently entered a Cream Ale in a large competition. It did pretty well. All three judges faulted it for not being "crisp" but none had any guidance about how to achieve that.

Is it just a matter of drying it out? Sub out some of the malt for simple sugar or is there more to it than that.

 

[OleBrewing]

There are too many possibilities without knowing yeast, mash temp, ferm temp, ingredients etc.
I am not sure on the category but who knows maybe they all thought in there mind of a crisp lager beer.
How the beer was served could be another thing. Was it cool, cold, carbed or flat.
What was your thoughts on the beer.

 

[sboyajian]

How much flaked maize was in your recipe per 5g? In essence, the higher the percentage of cereal adjuncts, the lighter and crisper it will be. With a cream ale that's typically achieved with corn.

My original cream ale had about 10% (1lb) of corn. I liked it, but thought it could use a bit more. I moved the last batch up to 15.5% (1.5lbs). It's still conditioning, so I'm not sure how well it worked out quite yet.

You can usually achieve more crispness through flaked corn or rice. Honestly, if you are less than 10%, consider bumping it. I've seen some cream ales that have as much as 20-30% adjunct/cereal.

 

[BroStefan]

The recipe is adapted from Cream of Three Crops.

67% 2 row
22% flaked corn
6% flaked rice
4% rice hulls

Willamette and Crystal hop blend three addition.

US-05 yeast

 

[sboyajian]

Well that's plenty of rice and corn.

What were your numbers?

 

[mabrungard]

Three factors are strong influences on percieved crispness in a beer: pH, sulfate level, and fermentability. With the high rice and corn content, the fermentability should be good as long as the mashing temps were not too high. Hopefully the mash did spend some time below 154F?

The pH and sulfate issues are water related. If the brewing water was not treated with some form of an external acid, then the mash pH could have been too high and that translates to the wort pH. High pH wort produces beers that are characterized as having 'dull' flavor. Reducing the mash and wort pH does improve 'crispness'. Including a modest level of sulfate in some beers can be an important factor in improving the dryness of the beer finish. Lack of sulfate can leave the finish a little too full or sweet. Too many brewers do not understand the importance of having an adequate level of sulfate in the brewing water helps with drying the finish and avoiding a cloying finish. Somewhere in the 25 to 50 ppm range of sulfate could help. It doesn't take much.

 

[m00ps]

The recipe is adapted from Cream of Three Crops.

67% 2 row
22% flaked corn
6% flaked rice
4% rice hulls

Willamette and Crystal hop blend three addition.

US-05 yeast

Its all about the FG in my experience. For me, I get my Saisons and IPAs super crisp by having 5-10% cane sugar by weight. I bet if you took out a bit of the 2row or corn and replaced it with cane sugar, boom nice and crisp.

Also, warming your yeast by 4 degrees or so near the end of fermentation will help them get the residual sugars cleaned up too

 

[QuercusMax]

I recently entered a Saison in competition that got dinged for not being dry/crisp enough. It finished at 1.002, so there clearly must be something else going on besides just FG!

Next time I'm going to try adding some sulfate and increasing the carbonation levels.

 

[BroStefan]

I'm not at home now so I don't have my brew day log but this I do know.

I used my standard water treatment - city water which is fairly soft. I add 2 grams each of gypsum and calcium carbonate. Adjust mash Ph to ~ 5.2 with lactic acid - 7 ml I think. Ph measured with calibrated Ph meter.

Mash at 150 with a direct fired rims BIAB system (DIY Tower of power clone) for 45 minutes ramp to 168 for a total of 60 minutes.

Starting gravity 1.048. Strong fermentation ended in about 4 days at 1.008.

I'm thinking more sulfates and less carbonates might be a worth a try.

 

[Gavin C]

The recipe is adapted from Cream of Three Crops.

67% 2 row
22% flaked corn
6% flaked rice
4% rice hulls

Willamette and Crystal hop blend three addition.

US-05 yeast

Not sure if it of any relevance to your question but I don't think rice hulls should be factored in when calculating percentages. My understanding is that they do not contribute anything to the mash chemistry, being utilized to prevent a stuck sparge.

 

[JonM]

Did you mean calcium chloride rather than calcium carbonate?

 

[sboyajian]

Not sure if it of any relevance to your question but I don't think rice hulls should be factored in when calculating percentages. My understanding is that they do not contribute anything to the mash chemistry, being utilized to prevent a stuck sparge.

Per Briess:

"Rice Flakes produce a light, clean and crisp characteristic to the finished beer."

 

[hunter_le five]

Per Briess:

"Rice Flakes produce a light, clean and crisp characteristic to the finished beer."

Rice flakes (flaked rice) are not the same thing as rice hulls.

 

[Gavin C]

Per Briess:

"Rice Flakes produce a light, clean and crisp characteristic to the finished beer."

Hulls, not flakes.

 

[sboyajian]

Hulls, not flakes.

Oops. didn't even notice that in his list, good catch. I only saw the flaked corn and flaked rice.

Either way, 28% doesn't appear to be a problem with his quantities and 1.008 is plenty dry enough for a cream ale. The recommendation for the Magnesium Sulfate seems like the best bet.

 

[BroStefan]

I used rice hulls a few times when I was dialing my system. I was just reading the % off of BeerSmith mobile.

I have a few bottles left. I add a pinch of mag sulfate to a bottle to see what happens.

Thanks for the suggestions

 

[BroStefan]

Did you mean calcium chloride rather than calcium carbonate?

Yep...

Cal chloride.

 

[Yooper]

Yep...

Cal chloride.

Martin Brungard gave good advice as always.

The other things to look at are yeast strain and cold conditioning.

S05 is widely used, but not so much by me. I love the "clean" crispness provided by a more neutral strain, fermented cooler. If you use, say, White Labs' Cream Ale Blend at 62 degrees, it will be crisper and more lager-like. I like California ale yeast, WLP001, for the same reasons. It's said to be a chico strain like S05, but I find it "cleaner", and it flocculates better. If you could find pac-man yeast, and ferment it at 60 degrees, I think you'd get a very crisp clean result.

The other thing I'd do for a cream ale is cold conditioning. A period of lagering, even two weeks, means excess polyphenols drop out and the S05 will clear better, and you'd have a much crisper mouthfeel and finish.

 

[BroStefan]

I forgot to mention that I did cold condition for several weeks before I bottled off the keg.

I'm a sure that the yeast is a factor. Unfortunately my LHBS isn't able to stock a large selection of liquid yeast. Thanks for the recommendations.

 

[JonM]

If you want a really clean and crisp ale yeast, I have had really fantastic results with 1007 German Ale Yeast fermented at 55 degrees.