BIAB gas mash control or RIMS

[JDXX1971]

First I would like to say Hello everyone,

I am very new to all this, haven't even brewed one single beer yet. We did make some Graff though and the smell of that wort created a MONSTER!!!

I have almost all of my equipment for a recirculated BIAB gas system either here or on the way soon. I designed my system based off of extensive reading here at HBT and many other sources. I am very thankful for all the information and discussions. Hopefully the kit I have put together will get the job done as is because I need to brew some BEER!!!

I am going to try and regulate the temperature of my mash with the burner for now. I am not seeing this working too awfully well without a lot of trial and error and attention. Especially since I will have to brew outside in ever varying conditions. So I have been researching ways to automate the process.

Option 1
Blichmann's Tower of Power gas control module, or to build a similar set up.

Option 2

120v RIMS tube and electric controller. This is why I am posting here, I am leaning towards the RIMS type set up.

Either way is going to require power to my brew stand, as will my pump anyway.

Also it seems it will cost pretty close to the same either way. Unless I build my own controller.

I have looked at all the pre made and DIY controllers I could find. I have not been able to find a simple controller for what I want to do.

So I am here looking for suggestions or help designing a simple controller.

That was pretty long winded, so if you read it all, Thanks

 

[jcglezen]

There is no wrong way. I can tell you that I am pretty happy with my external RIMS tube and High Gravity EBC-SV controller. I use the burner to get to mash temp, then recirculate through the RIMS tube controlled with the PID. Then back to the gas for the boil. I don't have access to 220V power, so full electronic boil didn't seem like a reasonable option.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7375490#post7375490

 

[JDXX1971]

There is no wrong way. I can tell you that I am pretty happy with my external RIMS tube and High Gravity EBC-SV controller. I use the burner to get to mash temp, then recirculate through the RIMS tube controlled with the PID. Then back to the gas for the boil. I don't have access to 220V power, so full electronic boil didn't seem like a reasonable option.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7375490#post7375490

Hey, thanks for the reply.

I have come across the High Gravity controllers before. While they would fit the bill perfectly I am hoping to put the whole RIMS system together for that price. HG has good prices too from what I have found.

I have also come across your thread before it is one of my inspirations for a compact BIAB stand. Thanks for posting the link and reminding me.

I am over on Auber Instruments again right now looking at components.

 

[jcglezen]

Hey, thanks for the reply.

I have come across the High Gravity controllers before. While they would fit the bill perfectly I am hoping to put the whole RIMS system together for that price. HG has good prices too from what I have found.

I have also come across your thread before it is one of my inspirations for a compact BIAB stand. Thanks for posting the link and reminding me.

I am over on Auber Instruments again right now looking at components.

Good luck! I am sure you can get it done more economically with the DIY controller. That was a little intimidating for me.

 

[JDXX1971]

Good luck! I am sure you can get it done more economically with the DIY controller. That was a little intimidating for me.

Yeah me too, I am a carpenter NOT an electrician. I know I can do it though. I have wired a few things e.g. house circuits, my boat & ect, with too much research and too little confidence. Everything seems to work well though.

The prices of these parts and those of the actual RIMS hardware is making me think back to gas control. Blichmann TOP gas fired= $575.00 +\- ??

Rims tube hardware 160.00
element 40.00
PID 46.00
SSR 10.00
heat sink 12.00
sensor + 45.00
= 313.00 or so +\- probably more +

switches n more relays? Wire, plugs, cords and whatever else (list goes on) figure another 200.00

So around $500.00 if I DIY as far as I can tell. Allowing for quality components. Add another $100.00 or more for a ready made controller.

Blichmann TOP gas fired 575 or so maybe I can find a deal when the time comes.

So I guess this has become a debate of gas vs electric for mash control. Main heating will be provided by Brew Built Afterburner. Brewing will be done outside for now regardless.


Sous vide anyone? I imagine you could do it either way but with a RIMS it could be brought inside. How viable is that idea? We have yet to cook sous vide but I am intrigued.

Gas control would be less cleaning.

I have read a little about building a gas controller. Seems about the same as electric as far as price DIY vs ready to go.

I guess I was not really ready to start this thread, but now that it exist. What do ya all think???

 

[jrcrilly]

You can build a controlled gas rig for far less than the cost of a Top Tier controller.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/brews-controlling-gas-fired-burners.html

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/brews-controlling-gas-fired-burners-pt-2.html

 

[jrcrilly]

edited

 

[JDXX1971]

You can build a controlled gas rig for far less than the cost of a Top Tier controller.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/brews-controlling-gas-fired-burners.html

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/brews-controlling-gas-fired-burners-pt-2.html

You know, I read your articles but never did follow up on pricing everything out. My head has been all over the place with this.

Well I just did and.......

1/2", 24 Vac Standing Pilot Gas Valve Body VR8200A2744 Honeywell 79.95
120 Vac Transformer (40VA) AT140A1000 Honeywell 10.65
Honeywell Q314A6094 Pilot Burner 24.95
24" Thermocouple 4.15
Universal 1/32 DIN PID Temperature Controller, 12 (24) VDC 39.15
Liquid tight RTD sensor, 2.5 in, 1/2 NPT Thread 45.35
switches wire and ect..... +45.80
=250.00

We have a winner, gas fired PID control for $250.00 +\-

jrcrilly, what do you think of my parts list? Will the PID run of the transformer too? If not I will pick another.

I really like that I dont have to make a huge investment all at once. I can buy the parts over a few weeks without pinching the wallet so hard.

Thanks for the help guys, you really kicked me into gear.

 

[jrcrilly]

The only change I would recommend would be to use the Mypin PID module that I used. It is powered by 120VAC so power isn't an issue, and I know that it has the appropriate relay output to run the solenoid. About $15 cheaper, too. I think you can find the pilot assembly for at least $5 less.

You will still spend the saved money, though. You will also have to switch the burner orifice to a low pressure unit ($10?) and you'll need to replace your regulator with a low pressure unit ($20?). And you'll need a gas line for the pilot ($6).

 

[JDXX1971]

The only change I would recommend would be to use the Mypin PID module that I used. It is powered by 120VAC so power isn't an issue, and I know that it has the appropriate relay output to run the solenoid. About $15 cheaper, too. I think you can find the pilot assembly for at least $5 less.

You will still spend the saved money, though. You will also have to switch the burner orifice to a low pressure unit ($10?) and you'll need to replace your regulator with a low pressure unit ($20?). And you'll need a gas line for the pilot ($6).

Thanks, I am starting to research the low pressure parts now. I am not very propane savvy yet so I have no idea. Could I possibly bug you for examples?

 

[JDXX1971]

Thanks, I am starting to research the low pressure parts now. I am not very propane savvy yet so I have no idea. Could I possibly bug you for examples?

I found the link in your article!!!

 

[doug293cz]

You know, I read your articles but never did follow up on pricing everything out. My head has been all over the place with this.

Well I just did and.......

1/2", 24 Vac Standing Pilot Gas Valve Body VR8200A2744 Honeywell 79.95
120 Vac Transformer (40VA) AT140A1000 Honeywell 10.65
Honeywell Q314A6094 Pilot Burner 24.95
24" Thermocouple 4.15
Universal 1/32 DIN PID Temperature Controller, 12 (24) VDC 39.15
Liquid tight RTD sensor, 2.5 in, 1/2 NPT Thread 45.35
switches wire and ect..... +45.80
=250.00

We have a winner, gas fired PID control for $250.00 +\-

jrcrilly, what do you think of my parts list? Will the PID run of the transformer too? If not I will pick another.

I really like that I dont have to make a huge investment all at once. I can buy the parts over a few weeks without pinching the wallet so hard.

Thanks for the help guys, you really kicked me into gear.

So, are you no longer interested in a design for a DIY electric RIMS control panel?

Brew on

 

[JDXX1971]

So, are you no longer interested in a design for a DIY electric RIMS control panel?

Brew on

I think at this point I am more interested in a design for a DIY gas fired control panel. I started putting together a parts list a couple of post back. Having no experience with these kinds of things I am not sure what all I would need to complete the panel portion of the build. I am researching more on the specifics now, but like you mentioned there are a lot of choices and options. This could take a while, suggestions are welcome from all.

 

[JDXX1971]

So, are you no longer interested in a design for a DIY electric RIMS control panel?

Brew on

So on another note, maybe this thread should be moved to the BIAB or Automated brewing Forums.

Mods???

 

[doug293cz]

I think at this point I am more interested in a design for a DIY gas fired control panel. I started putting together a parts list a couple of post back. Having no experience with these kinds of things I am not sure what all I would need to complete the panel portion of the build. I am researching more on the specifics now, but like you mentioned there are a lot of choices and options. This could take a while, suggestions are welcome from all.

Well, I have no familiarity with gas controls, so I can't be of much help here. I'll jump back in if you move back towards electric.

Brew on

 

[JDXX1971]

Well, I have no familiarity with gas controls, so I can't be of much help here. I'll jump back in if you move back towards electric.

Brew on

Thanks Doug,

I like the idea of electric, but I already have an expensive gas burner so might as well use it. Plus I am hoping to maybe make the whole thing 24v as to be Battery\solar capable. Off Grid Beer Brewing:rockin::rockin:

 

[JDXX1971]

Well, I have no familiarity with gas controls, so I can't be of much help here. I'll jump back in if you move back towards electric.

Brew on

Well I have finally arrived at that point. I am getting a Jaybird Thrifty RIMS and would like to build a controller as simple as possible. I found two threads I will reference below. One seems to be a very simple system but would need accommodations for the pump. The other was a thread based on one of pj's drawings in which you mentioned changing some things.

Basically I want to control the RIMS and one pump as simply as possibly. I have started putting together an order from Auber and I already have a nice box. Any advise you would have is greatly appreciated.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=454273

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=379938


And the thrifty RIMS thread
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=596116

 

[doug293cz]

Well I have finally arrived at that point. I am getting a Jaybird Thrifty RIMS and would like to build a controller as simple as possible. I found two threads I will reference below. One seems to be a very simple system but would need accommodations for the pump. The other was a thread based on one of pj's drawings in which you mentioned changing some things.

Basically I want to control the RIMS and one pump as simply as possibly. I have started putting together an order from Auber and I already have a nice box. Any advise you would have is greatly appreciated.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=454273

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=379938


And the thrifty RIMS thread
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=596116

What is your desired element power? Are you using a chugger type pump, or one of the DC models?

Brew on

 

[JDXX1971]

What is your desired element power? Are you using a chugger type pump, or one of the DC models?

Brew on

Hello Doug, thanks for the response. My plan is to keep the power low enough to use a standard 15 amp household circuit. Jaybird tested the element used with the Thrifty RIMS at right around 1200 watts. Other elements I have considered are the 5500 watt 240 volt elements ran on 120v like this one https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element5500.htm Which should come in under 1400 watts. My pump is a 120v center inlet Chugger. I have looked at all the prefab controllers I can find and the prices are just too much for me to justify.

 

[doug293cz]

Hello Doug, thanks for the response. My plan is to keep the power low enough to use a standard 15 amp household circuit. Jaybird tested the element used with the Thrifty RIMS at right around 1200 watts. Other elements I have considered are the 5500 watt 240 volt elements ran on 120v like this one https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element5500.htm Which should come in under 1400 watts. My pump is a 120v center inlet Chugger. I have looked at all the prefab controllers I can find and the prices are just too much for me to justify.

A 5500W @ 240V element will provide 1375W @ 120V and draw 11.5A. A chugger pump draws 1.4A, so total draw would be 12.9A. Since this is not continuous (greater than 3 hrs) operation, this is ok on a 15A circuit.

Do you want the cheapest possible solution (which uses a wall light switch and allows dry firing the element) or would you prefer a solution that prevents element dry firing (uses more aesthetically pleasing switches and a contactor for element power)?

Brew on

 

[JDXX1971]

A 5500W @ 240V element will provide 1375W @ 120V and draw 11.5A. A chugger pump draws 1.4A, so total draw would be 12.9A. Since this is not continuous (greater than 3 hrs) operation, this is ok on a 15A circuit.

Do you want the cheapest possible solution (which uses a wall light switch and allows dry firing the element) or would you prefer a solution that prevents element dry firing (uses more aesthetically pleasing switches and a contactor for element power)?

Brew on

Hey Doug,

I think I would like the second option with protection from dry firing the element. I figure any savings would be lost first element fried. I do not mind spending a few extra bucks on safety,quality and aesthetics for sure.

 

[doug293cz]

Hey Doug,

I think I would like the second option with protection from dry firing the element. I figure any savings would be lost first element fried. I do not mind spending a few extra bucks on safety,quality and aesthetics for sure.

Ok, give me a couple of days.

Brew on

 

[JDXX1971]

Awesome Doug I appreciate it!!!! I am going to order my Thrifty Rims tomorrow. I am getting excited to be thinking about stable mash temps, I have been trying to control temp manually with the gas burner. Yeah like thats ever gonna work, lolol.

 

[JDXX1971]

I have tracking info on my new RIMS kit!!!!!!! I sure am excited to be getting a handle on my mash temps.

 

[newtobrew1981]

https://youtu.be/cOJBWhiLYyw

Check this out could be your answer

 

[doug293cz]

https://youtu.be/cOJBWhiLYyw

Check this out could be your answer

I would not recommend anyone use the schematic from this video. There is no positive disconnect for the element power, which is a concern since SSR's usually fail in the on state (i.e. shorted.) The author talks about safety, but there are no safety features designed into this panel. The schematic also doesn't match the control panel shown in the video, as the schematic does not show the indicator lamps that are clearly part of the panel.

Brew on

 

[newtobrew1981]

I did not look at the schematic I just seen this on YouTube the other day. Suggestion was made to give him some ideas. It's great hat you picked up on that. That's what makes this forum.

 

[JDXX1971]

I would not recommend anyone use the schematic from this video. There is no positive disconnect for the element power, which is a concern since SSR's usually fail in the on state (i.e. shorted.) The author talks about safety, but

there are no safety features designed into this panel.

The schematic also doesn't match the control panel shown in the video, as the schematic does not show the indicator lamps that are clearly part of the panel.

Brew on

Besides cost this is why I would like to build my own control panel. I have looked at all the ready made controllers I can find and not one of them mentions what kind of safety features they have. While they may be safe (???) I do not know enough about these things to feel comfortable. So I am excited to build one that is properly designed with safety in mind. Otherwise I will probably use a simple controller like one of the ones available from Auber and rely on myself to keep it safe.


Congratulations, and even more so, Thank you for your newly appointed position of forum moderator

 

[doug293cz]

Congratulations, and even more so, Thank you for your newly appointed position of forum moderator

Thanks. The new "job" is one reason I'm a little behind on my design work. Yours is next in the queue. I'll be working on it today.

Brew on

 

[JDXX1971]

Thanks. The new "job" is one reason I'm a little behind on my design work. Yours is next in the queue. I'll be working on it today.

Brew on

Yeah I bet, trying to keep up with all us troublemakers and such, haha. I surely appreciate your help Doug. Without it I would surely have to buy one of those pre fabbed controllers.