Pump In (Inside) a Toolbox - Stainless

stratslinger · Dec 4, 2012

Jak, when you're very first starting out, you're probably only doing extract, and moving large amounts of fluid from one vessel to another doesn't seem like something you'd do a lot on brew day - except maybe to siphon your chilled wort into your fermenter once you're done boiling and chilling...

But right now, on a brew day, I use my pump to transfer strike water and sparge water from my HLT into my Mash Tun (terms you'll become familiar with down the road if you choose to pursue all grain brewing). I also use my pump to recirculate boiling wort through my counter flow chiller to sanitize it, and then to push the hot wort through that chiller while actually going through the chilling process.

A bit down the road, I plan to add a RIMS tube like a couple of the guys above have. Basically, that's just a tube with a heating element in it that you constantly circulate the wort from your mash through - this helps maintain the correct mash temperature and the constant recirculation is supposed to add a bit to your mash efficiency. But you need to use your pump to circulate the fluid through that tube, so again, the pump comes into play!

BBQBrew01 · Dec 4, 2012

Mtn_Brewer said:
I made a similar box last year. I used a steel tool box from Home Depot, an Auber 1/4 DIN PID, a 5 inch AC computer fan, 40 amp SSR with heat sink and a March pump. The pump was mounted through the box. It already had a ball valve for flow control and a Blichmann brewmometer, as it started as a direct fire RIMS system on my stove (see photo below). The return system also was repurposed. The fan blows air past the SSR heat sink and pump with the exhaust on the back. It's wired so the fan comes on with power up and the heater won't run unless the pump and PID are turned on. I use a RIMS tube from Brewers Hardware with a 4800 watt 240 volt element. It drops into a couple of u-bolts I attached to the side of my brewstand and is easily removed for a cleaning soak. The system has worked great once I started using 1/2 lb of rice hulls per batch and keep the flow rate to < 2 gpm.

I almost used that same toolbox but was worried about the diamond plate....did you have any issues mounting the pump head? Did you have to grind down any of the "diamonds"?

jakwhite · Dec 4, 2012

Yeah your very correct, to me that is brew day putting it all into my fermentor then checking gravity etc then syphoning it from my fermentor to my barrel,

I've literally had a week of going through this forum I've not been able to stop looking at everybody's set ups etc and can't wait to start brewing with grains and everything

But love the tool box idea it looks great

Mtn_Brewer · Dec 4, 2012

BBQBrew01 said:
I almost used that same toolbox but was worried about the diamond plate....did you have any issues mounting the pump head? Did you have to grind down any of the "diamonds"?

It wasn't a problem. All the components could be fit between the diamonds pretty easily, including the PID.

OCBrewin · Dec 4, 2012

Mtn_Brewer said:
It wasn't a problem. All the components could be fit between the diamonds pretty easily, including the PID.

That box is very nice. Good job.

One thing that I want to point out is that the only really departure from all of the other boxes that I found on this site was the mounting of the pump head inside the box. That is really why I started this thread - with the plastic head on the outside of the box it is very susceptible to being struck and breaking, as many have done.

It looks like you have room inside the box to mount the pump backwards and plumb disconnects on the outside as I show in the original post and how others have done. Just my $0.02 if others are wanting to build a box following these ideas. I do have to say that your box looks a bit sturdier. The one from Harbor Freight is nice and shiny, but could be a bit heavier duty IMO. Cant beat the price though - I think I picked up the box for like $15. :mug:

BBQBrew01 · Dec 4, 2012

OCBrewin said:
That box is very nice. Good job.

One thing that I want to point out is that the only really departure from all of the other boxes that I found on this site was the mounting of the pump head inside the box. That is really why I started this thread - with the plastic head on the outside of the box it is very susceptible to being struck and breaking, as many have done.

It looks like you have room inside the box to mount the pump backwards and plumb disconnects on the outside as I show in the original post and how others have done. Just my $0.02 if others are wanting to build a box following these ideas. I do have to say that your box looks a bit sturdier. The one from Harbor Freight is nice and shiny, but could be a bit heavier duty IMO. Cant beat the price though - I think I picked up the box for like $15.

Do you have any priming issues with the pump mounted inside the box?

I currently have my Chugger pump with the head outside the box...but I'm thinking of converting to an inside the box design.

Mtn_Brewer · Dec 4, 2012

OCBrewin said:
That box is very nice. Good job.

One thing that I want to point out is that the only really departure from all of the other boxes that I found on this site was the mounting of the pump head inside the box. That is really why I started this thread - with the plastic head on the outside of the box it is very susceptible to being struck and breaking, as many have done.

It looks like you have room inside the box to mount the pump backwards and plumb disconnects on the outside as I show in the original post and how others have done. Just my $0.02 if others are wanting to build a box following these ideas. I do have to say that your box looks a bit sturdier. The one from Harbor Freight is nice and shiny, but could be a bit heavier duty IMO. Cant beat the price though - I think I picked up the box for like $15.

Nice build and I see your advantages but I like the access to my pump head as I have gotten my pump gummed up to the point I had to disassemble it to clean it out. Also, I could see a seal failing and all the electrical components getting soaked in sticky mash fluid and grains. If there was a way to get the pump inside but still walled off/isolated from the electrical stuff and yet easily removed for service issues then that may solve all concerns.

Somebody build one and post up.

OCBrewin · Dec 4, 2012

Nope, no issues here. I think that once you get used to the mag drive pumps and how they work you learn how they like to work and how to properly prime them. For me, that just means flooding the pump and getting the air out before starting it, usually that's as easy as making sure that the inlet and outlet valves are cracked and having the pump well below the supply. I don't see how rotating the pump 180 degrees makes any difference in priming. It's still in the same orientation, just inside the box.

OCBrewin · Dec 4, 2012

Mtn_Brewer said:
Nice build and I see your advantages but I like the access to my pump head as I have gotten my pump gummed up to the point I had to disassemble it to clean it out. Also, I could see a seal failing and all the electrical components getting soaked in sticky mash fluid and grains. If there was a way to get the pump inside but still walled off/isolated from the electrical stuff and yet easily removed for service issues then that may solve all concerns.

Somebody build one and post up.

I hope that doesn't happen to me! I took it apart once, to check inside before mounting it in the box and it was squeeky clean! I always recirculate hot cleaner through it after each brew.

OCBrewin · Dec 10, 2012

Just another update - used this box in its latest configuration (only difference being that I added kill switches for the alarm, PID and fan) for a Rye Pale this weekend and it worked perfectly. Mash started out a bit sticky, but I cleared that with a couple of stirs about half way through. Clearest wort to date. Here is the recipe in case anyone wants it - it details my steps and temps that I did with the box:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/ryans-rye-pale-373252/

CalypsoCowboy · Dec 15, 2012

Anyone concerned as there is water and electricity inside the same box? That just seems like an accident waiting to happen. You have a hose clamp that leaks and not good

-Josh

wyzazz · Dec 16, 2012

Nope, not concerned at all. That is what GFCI protection is for.

MyNameIsPaul · Jan 7, 2013

Which fittings are you guys using through the side of the box to have the pump IN the box with just the quick connect on the outside? It's hard to tell from the pictures.

OCBrewin · Jan 7, 2013

MyNameIsPaul said:
Which fittings are you guys using through the side of the box to have the pump IN the box with just the quick connect on the outside? It's hard to tell from the pictures.

Camlock fittings and high flow hose barbs. I also suggest reinforcing the wall with an additional plate or something because the stainless is pretty thin. I used a thin piece of hardwood board. You can either use camlock type A fittings with male threaded barbs, or type F fittings with female barbs - up to you.

MyNameIsPaul · Jan 8, 2013

OCBrewin said:
Camlock fittings and high flow hose barbs. I also suggest reinforcing the wall with an additional plate or something because the stainless is pretty thin. I used a thin piece of hardwood board. You can either use camlock type A fittings with male threaded barbs, or type F fittings with female barbs - up to you.

Thank you!

OCBrewin · Jan 8, 2013

Just FYI, I suggest the Type A fitting, male barbs, stainless washers and a hardwood plate. That's what I used. You can see them all in the original post.

MyNameIsPaul · May 18, 2013

OCB! I hope you're still around! I got all the parts for this today, save the pronged outlet (Dang you Radio Shack!) and I'd like to start cutting hold and wiring it up, but I was wondering if you (or anyone else reading this...) have a diagram for how it's supposed to be wired. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

jonos7 · May 27, 2013

I'm thinking about building one of these, but I'm worried about priming the pump. What/how do you guys prim with this set up ?

wyzazz · May 28, 2013

I rarely ever need to re-prime my pump, but if you're using camlocks you could make an adapter to prime the pump fairly easily, kind of like I did for the ball valve to restrict the flow.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/pump-inside-toolbox-stainless-282011/index4.html#post3700635

MyNameIsPaul · Jun 25, 2013

OCBrewin-
Could I incorporate this Pump in a box to my rims with the following diagram? Would I have to rewire the outlet/switches that are currently on the tolbox? I'd like to have a self contained unit, like you did, but I'm not sure how to make it work with the current configuration.

OCBrewin · Jun 25, 2013

Paul,

Here is the wiring diagram that I modified from where ever I found it online. It works well for me. It is crude, but useful. Note, I have added in a few items that make my pump a little more useful like a 120v fan directly over the pump an alarm buzzer and 3 toggle switches to kill the power to the fan, pid and alarm should I need to. These are all convenience items and can be added later, as I did. I think I posted an updated pic earlier in this thread, but if not I will snap another one. I've used this pump for about a year now and over 25 batches with no issues.

jbaysurfer · Jun 25, 2013

Boerderij_Kabouter said:
I do not use a ball valve on the pump outlet. Only one ball valve is needed in series to restrict the flow.

My pump box is on the bottom. I use the ball valves on the kettle returns to throttle the flow. Less parts, simpler layout. During hose changes, I just pinch the tubing while making the change to maintain my prime. Both ways work just fine.

What kind of tubing do you use...because the pressure rating for silicone tubing is extremely low. Also, I'm not coordinated enough to just pinch tubes without burning myself all to hell.

Glad your way works for you, but in the interest of safety, I wanted to share this blurb from brewhardware.com:

Note: this tubing is not rated for high pressures. Do not restrict the output when fed by city water pressure or a pump. All silicone (or at least most) of similar dimensions and duro hardness is rated to approximately 10 psi working pressure. As far as tubing goes, that's not a lot. Several customers have pointed out that they have used this tubing between a pump and a restriction point such as a vessel-mounted valve with no problem at all. That's fine and likely true because most homebrew pumps such as March 809/815 and Chuggers can only generate about 7 or 8 PSI or 17 ft of head pressure which is obviously below the typical silicone rating. Please be careful and practical here though. Be sure to use hose clamps on all barbs and beware of tubing clamped over non-barbed tubing. Also, if you're using a pump more powerful than 1/20th HP, all bets are off. Realistically, the most safe way to use this kind of tubing is to put your flow control ball valve directly on pump output. It's not the ONLY way to be safe but it is the best way and the only one we can officially endorse. Kapeesh?

gx1400 · Jun 25, 2013

I just built a very similar pump box, though not quite as clean (tried to jury-rig tools I had to do the job and ended up buying the tools I should have used after the fact... may rebuild one of these days).

Added a fan and vent and did not include an external GFCI because I plan to build a separate RIMS control box that this box will likely plug into. Also wanted to be able to carry my box over to a friends house to use without the added risk of the RIMS stuff being hurt by negligence.

Album: http://imgur.com/a/2PuYV

Exterior box front with output camlocked T attached. Front has push button switch and fan output..

Rear has fan vent and electrical inlet.

Two holes intentional. (Left to right): Left most lets the elbow from the pump output seat through the tray. Middle for the camlock T to fall through (see later). Right most for fuze holder to seat, should have mounted it lower... lesson learned.

Input power running through fuse, to switch, which switches GFCI outlet. Case grounded.

Pump and 120V fan are attached to GFCI. Everything is mounted to 1"x6" board scraps.

Attempting to whirlpool and circulate wort for faster cooling. Hop pellets clogged output screen, may have to try out hop bags.

Power cord and camlock T sit nicely in top tray.

Fits nicely in the hole. Try to make sure it's clean and dry before putting away. If it does leak, it's minimal and I attempted to insulate the electrical properly

andrhamm · Jun 25, 2013

I see all these lever action ball valves and can't help but think this would be the perfect application for mechanical/electrical ball valves... mount them inside the box, out of sight and add a couple more switches to the panel.

boomer754 · Dec 20, 2014

Thought I would share my take on this one. I mounted two chugger pumps inside my eHERMS control box. Happy how it turned out.

ChocolateMaltyBalls · Dec 20, 2014

Very nice! That's a tight space, how hot does she get with the fan on?

boomer754 · Dec 20, 2014

ChocolateMaltyBalls said:
Very nice! That's a tight space, how hot does she get with the fan on?

Cool enough to touch. I'll get my IR thermometer out next time I brew (tomorrow maybe) and check it out.

orangehero · Dec 20, 2014

I would recommend using high pressure reinforced silicone on the inside. The regular stuff will pop like a balloon with very little pressure, especially when it's hot.

Griff78 · May 3, 2015

boomer754 said:
Thought I would share my take on this one. I mounted two chugger pumps inside my eHERMS control box. Happy how it turned out.

Love your set up! Any wiring diagrams or build sheets?

stratslinger · May 3, 2015

orangehero said:
I would recommend using high pressure reinforced silicone on the inside. The regular stuff will pop like a balloon with very little pressure, especially when it's hot.

Ya know, I've read that several times before... But I've had regular 1/2" ID silicone in my box for a couple years now, and never had a problem. I'm curious if this is one of those pieces of common wisdom that gets passed down without any direct experience to back it up.

Full disclosure: the hose in my box is regular wall, not the thinner wall stuff that's come into vogue the past year or two...

Pump In (Inside) a Toolbox - Stainless

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