Table Sugar vs Corn?

Table Sugar AKA cane sugar AKA sucrose VS Corn sugar AKA Dextrose

Table sugar is never recommended to brew, because (from what i read) is 3 things:
1) Isn't fermented 100%
2) It leaves a Cidery after taste, (also known as off flavours)
3) It stress's the yeast because it has to break down the sucrose.


But upon further investigation:
1) Sucrose = Glucose + Fructose which both are 100% fermented. So no left overs = no flavors from this anyways.

2)The Cider after taste was a "myth" in the 80's and has just carried on for years. The cider flavors is more likely to be temperature problems, yeast problems, sanitary issues or if using a kit an expired kit. Out of the four I would assume that fermentation temperature problems are the most common.

3) It stress's the yeast because it has to break down the sucrose. Ok this makes sence because the yeast actually has to break apart the Glucose and fructose then it eats it. So the only difference is you must let this ferment a bit longer to actually let it break down the table sugar.

But what i have read you can invert the sugar by adding like 2 teaspoons of lemon to the table sugar bring it to 300 degrees f and this process will break apart the Glucose and Fructose for the yeast so they can digest it faster.

So my question is why can't you just use table sugar and wait a week longer for fermentation?

Or take the money you saved on not buying dextrose and buy a lemon and invert the table sugar yourself?

I'm just curious because I don't have a LHB in my town and I dont want to pay outrageous prices + outrageous shipping for cornsugar unless its proven that it better.

I'm new to brewing so I have yet to actually test this but I'm curious if anyone has tested this themselves.

Go ahead and use table sugar. I do not find much difference to corn sugar. I use 2/3 cup white table sugar to prime for bottling all the time---no difference in my opinion. The big problem is when you use too high of a percentage of sugar in your beer. For a 5 gallon batch I would not use more than a pound. It will bump up the ABV and tend to "dry out" your beer.

Welcome to the HBT. First of all I'm not sure exactly where you are thinking of using the sugar. If we are talking about priming sugar when bottling, then table sugar will be just fine. I have not done a lot of brewing but the few I have, I used table sugar and had no problems. Here's a link to How to Brew discussing priming sugar Otherwise I'm not sure where else you are using the sugar? I know some will add a source of additional sugar to help bump up the ABV %. Otherwise all the sugars being fermented are coming from the grain. Weather you are doing AG or Extract. If I'm completely ignorant to what you are asking please forgive me.

As for the amount to use there are several calculators that will help you to carbonate to style. Here's the one I use TastyBrew.com. I got the link from a friend that is also here in the forums.

Dondlelinger said:

So my question is why can't you just use table sugar and wait a week longer for fermentation?

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Who says you can't?

Belgian brewers use sucrose. Their's tends to be beet sugar, and as far as I know, they do not pre-invert it. I have been told that table sugar in the US is beet unless otherwise noted (noted as "pure cane" or whatever). The yeast express invertase, they can do it themselves.

I was at a well-known brewery that makes some of the best Belgian-style ales in the US, they were brewing their tripel and up on the platform next to the opening in the boil kettle were 2-3 big sacks of Domino cane sugar.

Use sucrose, it is fine.

Thanks guys! Makes me very happy. At least I can continue brewing. I was debating to continue if I had to pay 9$ + 16$ shipping for 1 pound of corn sugar, it wasn't going to be worth the $ to continue.

Otherwise I'm not sure where else you are using the sugar?

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Currently on my first kit and I will be staying on kits because my closest brewer is many miles away but promised 13$ a kit if I buy a few.
So i needed sugar for the kit. If i can get kit I have everything else I can get in town. I actually might add a few hops into the kits now that i know sugar isn't an issue.


You can use table sugar but it's recommended to invert it first otherwise it will take longer and you will have an "appley" flavor. THe appley flavor just means you need to wait longer.

This is a great thread on the topic:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/invert-sugar-candy-sugar-8359/

Now the only question is why do people spend so much on corn sugar when u can invert cheap sugar with 1 lemon? The lemon isn't actually required it just speeds up the inverting.

Dondlelinger said:

You can use table sugar but it's recommended to invert it first otherwise it will take longer and you will have an "appley" flavor. THe appley flavor just means you need to wait longer.

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Again, I am not sure this is true. Unless you are using a lot of sugar (>20%) or yeast with poor health, I don't think you will see any cidery flavors. I have brewed a number of beers with table sugar straight (anywhere from 5 to about 20%) and have never had any cidery flavors.

Again, I am not sure this is true. Unless you are using a lot of sugar (>20%) or yeast with poor health, I don't think you will see any cidery flavors. I have brewed a number of beers with table sugar straight (anywhere from 5 to about 20%) and have never had any cidery flavors.

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I just read that from that link I posted above https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/invert-sugar-candy-sugar-8359/

I'm happy your an experienced brewer and you say table sugar is fine. I'm happy because the internet is flooded with false reviews on table sugar.

I just did some quick math and from what i gather your saying 20% max for no off flavors in a

23 liter = (5 galon) jug
1 liter = 2.2pound

23liter x 2.2pound = 50.96 pounds

50.96pound x .20percent = 10.192 pounds max

Is this correct math here lol??

10.192 pounds of table sugar on a full batch.

The appley flavors the guy was saying was some sort of reaction when the yeast breaks apart the sucrose but, its stated later that, it will go away if you just wait longer... unsure if hes right but either way its just a little longer wait, which to me doesn't make a difference.

Beerrific said:

Again, I am not sure this is true. Unless you are using a lot of sugar (>20%) or yeast with poor health, I don't think you will see any cidery flavors. I have brewed a number of beers with table sugar straight (anywhere from 5 to about 20%) and have never had any cidery flavors.

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I agree.

BUT, here's the thing. Those kits that call for 3.3 pounds of liquid extract and a kilo of sugar (referred to as a "kit & a kilo) don't taste very good and can be cidery. That's not because of the type of sugar that is used, though. It's because for a beer to taste like we'd like and expect, very little (if any) sugar should be used. Sugar is a cheap alcohol producer, which makes the beer thin and dry without a rich malt flavor. Instead of ANY sugar, use dry malt extract in place of the sugar for a much better flavor. In fact, I'd get rid of the whole pre-hopped can of extract, and buy a better quality of kit to begin with. The Cooper's and John Bull canned prehopped stuff just doesn't make good quality beer to begin with, and then adding simple sugars and fermenting too warm with a yeast like Munton's or Cooper's make it cidery and not good tasting.

A good quality liquid or dry extract (try to never buy canned liquid extract, but fresh stuff that comes in buckets), no sugar, a good quality yeast, and a fermentation temperature under 21C at all times.

As was mentioned earlier, sugar can have a place in brewing. Generally, it's used where the beer is already high in malt, and it needs a thinner body. A beer like a Belgian tripel, or an Imperial IPA, can use sugar to help with the body. But it's NOT good in an English bitter at all! I would tell a new brewer at this point to not use sugar at all. Just brew all-malt beer kits and use hops and good yeast- that's the way to good beer.

I did several real tests on split batches and determined that there is no difference between the two sugars for priming. And, you can use almost exactly the same weight (not volume... be careful with this).

I use table sugar exclusively now. No more dextrose.

Dondlelinger said:

I just read that from that link I posted above, I'm happy your an experienced brewer and you say table sugar is fine. I'm happy because the internet is flooded with false reviews on table sugar.

I just did some quick math and from what i gather your saying 20% max for no off flavors in a

23 liter = (5 galon) jug
1 liter = 2.2pound

23liter x 2.2pound = 50.96 pounds

50.96pound x .20percent = 10.192 pounds max

Is this correct math here lol??

10.192 pounds of table sugar on a full batch.

The appley flavors the guy was saying was some sort of reaction when the yeast breaks apart the sucrose but, its stated later that, it will go away if you just wait longer... unsure if hes right but either way its just a little longer wait, which to me doesn't make a difference.

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I don't know where people get the 20% max thing, because as long as you fit it into the style it should be fine.

The way I read it, 20% refers to the percentage of the fermentable sugars, so according to this rule you wouldn't want more than 20 points from sugar in a 1.100 SG batch. So, assuming that corn sugar contributes 1.036 pppg, then you would top out at 2.78 lbs of sugar.

Not saying that I support this rule, just trying to (hopefully) offer some clarification.

That said, I've used table sugar in a few brews with no ill effects because it was balanced out by the malt in the recipe. I don't see the purpose of buying corn sugar instead, though, and I won't again once my stash runs out.

Instead of ANY sugar, use dry malt extract in place of the sugar for a much better flavor. In fact, I'd get rid of the whole pre-hopped can of extract, and buy a better quality of kit to begin with. The Cooper's and John Bull canned prehopped stuff just doesn't make good quality beer to begin with, and then adding simple sugars and fermenting too warm with a yeast like Munton's or Cooper's make it cidery and not good tasting.

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From what i read your 100% correct but again my problem lies in no LHB anywhere near me so I'd have to pay top dollar for those supplies which again would render my brewing days over, since shipping 1 pound = 16$. So I'm sort of stuck with this way for now. I will ask the guy I deal with if he can get that bucket style malt extract.

I have a coopers kit going currently but, my dealer sells muntons and morgons so thats what the next brew will be.

I use table sugar exclusively now. No more dextrose.

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Cheers thanks for that

My dry malt extract is 9.50 $ for 500g and 16$ for shipping. grrr.

I use sugar in many brews to make them dry out a bit more - IPAs and pale ales mostly. Corn sugar/white sugar/brown sugar/honey all have zero difference so far as I can taste so I use white sugar! I generally use 4-16 oz in the boil for 5-6 gallon batches.

fwiw and ymmv and wtf,
Steve

Yooper said:

BUT, here's the thing. Those kits that call for 3.3 pounds of liquid extract and a kilo of sugar (referred to as a "kit & a kilo) don't taste very good and can be cidery.

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Agreed. But, I would say that it is not the kilo of sugar that is the problem rather crappy yeast that is in poor health and the beer is not fermented properly.

Yooper said:

As was mentioned earlier, sugar can have a place in brewing. Generally, it's used where the beer is already high in malt, and it needs a thinner body. A beer like a Belgian tripel, or an Imperial IPA, can use sugar to help with the body. But it's NOT good in an English bitter at all! I would tell a new brewer at this point to not use sugar at all. Just brew all-malt beer kits and use hops and good yeast- that's the way to good beer.

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Good point. If you don't know when/where sugar can help your brewing, go all malt. Once you get a feel for brewing (and proper fermentation) you can add sugar to the recipes as the beer or style calls for it. Being confident in the process will let you really test if the addition of sugar gives off flavors (vs. other problems mentioned above).

But, I would say that it is not the kilo of sugar that is the problem rather crappy yeast that is in poor health and the beer is not fermented properly.

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I agree with you here as well from what i have read. Yeast plays a huge role and 2nd is temperature of fermentation.(which temperature of fermentation is hard enough for me to do at the moment since my apartment like to get hot, and only defense i have is a wet towel lol)

Dondlelinger said:

Thanks guys! Makes me very happy. At least I can continue brewing. I was debating to continue if I had to pay 9$ + 16$ shipping for 1 pound of corn sugar, it wasn't going to be worth the $ to continue.


Currently on my first kit and I will be staying on kits because my closest brewer is many miles away but promised 13$ a kit if I buy a few.
So i needed sugar for the kit. If i can get kit I have everything else I can get in town. I actually might add a few hops into the kits now that i know sugar isn't an issue.


You can use table sugar but it's recommended to invert it first otherwise it will take longer and you will have an "appley" flavor. THe appley flavor just means you need to wait longer.

This is a great thread on the topic:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/invert-sugar-candy-sugar-8359/

Now the only question is why do people spend so much on corn sugar when u can invert cheap sugar with 1 lemon? The lemon isn't actually required it just speeds up the inverting.

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-You dont need to invert it

-It doesn't take longer to ferment

-I personally would only use it to prime prior to bottling

Dondlelinger said:

I just read that from that link I posted above https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/invert-sugar-candy-sugar-8359/

I'm happy your an experienced brewer and you say table sugar is fine. I'm happy because the internet is flooded with false reviews on table sugar.

I just did some quick math and from what i gather your saying 20% max for no off flavors in a

23 liter = (5 galon) jug
1 liter = 2.2pound

23liter x 2.2pound = 50.96 pounds

50.96pound x .20percent = 10.192 pounds max

Is this correct math here lol??

10.192 pounds of table sugar on a full batch.

The appley flavors the guy was saying was some sort of reaction when the yeast breaks apart the sucrose but, its stated later that, it will go away if you just wait longer... unsure if hes right but either way its just a little longer wait, which to me doesn't make a difference.

Click to expand...

LOL, no this is not correct. It's not 20% of the weight of the final liquid volume, it's 20% of the weight of the dry fermentables. So say you were making an IPA with 7lbs DME then you could substitute 1.4 lb sugar and use 5.6 lbs DME. 10 lbs of sugar in a 5 gallon batch isn't beer, it's the first step in making moonshine:cross:

brewit2it said:

LOL, no this is not correct. It's not 20% of the weight of the final liquid volume, it's 20% of the weight of the dry fermentables. So say you were making an IPA with 7lbs DME then you could substitute 1.4 lb sugar and use 5.6 lbs DME. 10 lbs of sugar in a 5 gallon batch isn't beer, it's the first step in making moonshine:cross:

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It's your beer- you should do what you want. But keep in mind that starting with prehopped Cooper's kits and adding cheap sugar isn't going to give you "good" beer. It'll be drinkable, probably. But not what anybody would consider good craft beer.

Perhaps ordering a few quality ingredients would be worth the shipping. I know beer (even bad beer) is expensive in Canada but making good beer would probably be worth the greater expense.

There are a couple of good online shops in Canada- http://www.homebrewgearcanada.com/malt-extract shows $16.50 for six pounds of liquid extract. Shipping would be more, of course, but it gives you an idea of quality ingredients and costs, and NO cheap sugar as a booster.

Dondlelinger----your math is faulty. Your 20% max figure is calculated using the percentage of fermentables in your beer recipe. I.E. If you have 8lbs of grain and/or malt extract and 2lbs sugar for a total of 10lbs fermentables then you are at your 20% max for sugar useage. It is not calculated based on the total weight or mass of your brew. And yes 10lbs of sugar in a 5 gallon batch would be a tragic mess!!

@Devilishprune- The 20% max thing with the sugar is found in How to Brew and maybe even Joy of Homebrewing, i think ive even seen it on homebrewing supply websites/kits or recipes. Even with roasted/toasted malts there are limits(suggested). Im glad alot of these supplystores state this under the description of their grains.It has helped me figure out what to use alot of and what not to.Especially since i make up most of my own grainbill. As a newbrewer ive found these (use up to 5-15%)type of suggestions very helpful.
Im shure you know this, but just trying to help the OP out also.

Table sugar exclusively for priming here too.

LOL, no this is not correct. It's not 20% of the weight of the final liquid volume, it's 20% of the weight of the dry fermentables. So say you were making an IPA with 7lbs DME then you could substitute 1.4 lb sugar and use 5.6 lbs DME. 10 lbs of sugar in a 5 gallon batch isn't beer, it's the first step in making moonshine

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Hehe thanks, sorry I'm still trying to figure out this stuff.Makes more sense now i figured 10pounds seemed a bit much haha.

$16.50 for six pounds of liquid extract. Shipping would be more, of course, but it gives you an idea of quality ingredients and costs, and NO cheap sugar as a booster.

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Thanks I will definitely look into it my supplier is way overpriced I guess minus his kits.

Dondlelinger said:

I agree with you here as well from what i have read. Yeast plays a huge role and 2nd is temperature of fermentation.(which temperature of fermentation is hard enough for me to do at the moment since my apartment like to get hot, and only defense i have is a wet towel lol)

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I can keep my fermenting beer down to 65* by placing the 5 g bucket in a plastic tub, 2 1/2 g jugs of ice and a wet towel. At night only 1 1/2 g is needed as it cools off then. Of course I'm out side, not in a heated apt.

I can keep my fermenting beer down to 65* by placing the 5 g bucket in a plastic tub, 2 1/2 g jugs of ice and a wet towel. At night only 1 1/2 g is needed as it cools off then. Of course I'm out side, not in a heated apt.

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Thanks yah I need to keep an eye out for a large container i think, right now its sitting in my kitchen sink with a wet towel over it. Its a bit high the temperature 71f or 22c but its the best i can do without taking over my bathtub. Unfortunately I like to shower...hehe but yah thanks for the tip.

Your math is totally off. 10.92 lbs sugar is 75% of fermentables with 1 can lme 3.3 lb added to 5 gal. Why bother with malt ??? Sugar alone will give you 9.5 % abv and 1 can of malt will only give you color and 2% more abv.