sanitizing fruit? (or other alternatives?)

Hello,

I currently have a chocolate-raspberry-blackberry stout in the primary. Testing the SG the other day I also tasted it and found that, despite 24 oz of fresh and frozen berries and raspberry jam (all added for final 15 minutes of boil), I can hardly taste the berries. So, I'm thinking of adding some fruit in the secondary for a week or so before kegging. How do I best sanitize the berries though, without introducing a bunch of iodophor into my beer? Could I boil them in water for a couple minutes and strain off the water before adding them, or would that mess up the flavor? Any other thoughts?

Thanks,

Matt

P.S. I know you can buy flavor to add straight to the keg but that just seems like cheating to me.

I've never done it, but.... Many people soak the fruit in vodka.

Also, more generally, how much do you you need to worry about iodophor in your beer? I'm always afraid of killing the yeast with the iodophor residue left on my sanitized equipment (as a result I rinse what I can- is that even necessary?)

jsweet said:

I've never done it, but.... Many people soak the fruit in vodka.

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sorry, stupid question but... strain out the vodka, right? and how long in the vodka is necessary?

Yes, separate the fruit from the vodka -- but I probably wouldn't rinse it (I don't know if people do or not, but I wouldn't...). Then drink the vodka.

I'm not sure about how long, but I would think 15 minutes would be plenty. Wouldn't hurt to soak 'em for longer.

I'd encourage you to search the forums to see what other people do. Here is a post listing some other options that people use:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/fruit-sanitizing-options-127186/

Depends on what I'm going for in the beer, but usually I just add the vodka with the berries into the brew. A lot of flavor compounds come off in the vodka, so I prefer to get them into the beer....and it gives a nice little abv boost. I usually give the fruit a week to two weeks in the vodka. I also often use frozen fruit from the store and do not sanitize it.

Also, you don't want to boil the fruit. Boiling fruit creates pectin which, if I remember correctly, wakes the feared clarity/stability/off-flavor monster.

Edit: Also, adding jam to your brew adds pectin as well, so I wouldn't do that again.

jmhart said:

Also, you don't want to boil the fruit. Boiling fruit creates pectin which, if I remember correctly, wakes the feared clarity/stability/off-flavor monster.

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Oh yeah, +1 on this, I didn't catch that in the OP. You can sanitize fruit by temperature by heating it to just below the point where pectin forms, but I'd be concerned about screwing it up. (I don't recall the proper temp offhand)

I usually just add the fruit to the secondary and count on the alcohol in the beer to prevent anything from taking hold and causing infection. I've never had an infection, but I haven't exactly done tons of fruit beers, either.

marcycaulkins said:

I usually just add the fruit to the secondary and count on the alcohol in the beer to prevent anything from taking hold and causing infection. I've never had an infection, but I haven't exactly done tons of fruit beers, either.

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Doesn't the sugar in the fruit kick off fermentation again?

that's why it is called a secondary fermentation

marcycaulkins said:

that's why it is called a secondary fermentation

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Well, yes. I've also read that it should be considered as conditioning rather than fermentation. Anyway, my question is... Doesn't adding sugar to the secondary invalidate the OG reading? So the true ABV is unknowable?

yes, the true exact abv is unknown. who cares?
and when you add fruit, you are doing a secondary ferment. when you transfer from the primary to a secondary just because you think that is what you are supposed to do, it is really a bright tank, not a secondary ferment.

marcycaulkins said:

yes, the true exact abv is unknown. who cares?

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Well, now you ask, I guess it doesn't really matter.

Does adding fresh fruit to the secondary get the most fruit flavor into the beer? Does pureeing help?

well, again, i am hardly the expert on fruit beers (don't go much for that girlie shyt), but my experience (combined with what I've read on this forum) says the best is to freeze your fruit to break down cell walls, mush it up, and throw it in.

I usually pasteurize and mash my fruit and add the water the fruit was pasteurized in as well as the mashed fruit to secondary. This usually adds about .5 gal to your total. You could strain the fruit out of the water, but you lose a lot of juice to the water when you pasteurize this way.

Sometimes I'll soak in vodka. When I do this I usually stick the vodka/fruit combination in the freezer for 24 hours. I then strain the fruit/peppers/etc off of the vodka and rack the beer onto whatever additive I'm using. Right now I have some chile vodka in my fridge.

Here's a link that might help for pasteurizing. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pasteurization-methods-temperatures-d_1642.html

Moonraker said:

Well, now you ask, I guess it doesn't really matter.

Does adding fresh fruit to the secondary get the most fruit flavor into the beer? Does pureeing help?

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if you want most and freshest flavor from fruit and don't want tartness of secondary fermentation from fruit sugars I suggest you crash cool your beer, gelatin and then add fruit to cold secondary and keep your beer below 40F for few days, then transfer to keg, carbonate and serve. I've done it with great success. Fruit juices never ferment this way (too cold for yeast to work) and you get best possible fruit flavor and aroma. No need to pasturize anything either or you will strip delicate aromas. Its like pure fruit goodness. Only works if you keg though, bottles will explode

Thanks for the last few responses. Good info...

This got touched on but not addressed directly in this thread, so I thought I'd add it:

When you add fruit to a beer, you do indeed at fermentable sugar, but you also had a bunch of water. The net effect of simply adding fruit to a beer is a reduction in ABV.

jmhart said:

This got touched on but not addressed directly in this thread, so I thought I'd add it:

When you add fruit to a beer, you do indeed at fermentable sugar, but you also had a bunch of water. The net effect of simply adding fruit to a beer is a reduction in ABV.

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Heh, good point.

I was also going to mention that there are inherent inaccuracies in computing ABV using only gravity readings anyway. I'm not knocking it; that's what I do, since the alternatives are to either send a sample to a lab for like $40 (IIRC), or just not even have a guess. But don't feel like you have this "true" ABV number that is being thrown off by the fruit: any ABV number that doesn't come from a lab is a rough approximation anyway.

On pureeing fruit before putting it into the fermentor:
I would just keep in mind that you will eventually have to rack that into a bottling bucket or keg. Sounds like it might get messy or clog your siphon. Never tried it, though, so maybe itl'll work fine.

A lot of flavor compounds come off in the vodka, so I prefer to get them into the beer....and it gives a nice little abv boost.

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Soaking in vodka will pull a lot of the alcohol soluble esters out of the fruit- aka the flavor and scent compounds that, in this case, you want. You would probably have to use the vodka, as it now contains the good stuff. Another method that will work is to soak them in a distilled vinegar or lemon juice. This will lower the PH to the point that it will kill almost all of the little nasties. After a good rinse, particularly in a solution of water and baking soda, none of the vinegar smell or flavor will be there, with almost no harm to the fruit (in fact, it will often help preserve the color). With lemon juice, you can wash it off or, depending on the beer type, you can just leave it on.

Also, you don't want to boil the fruit. Boiling fruit creates pectin which, if I remember correctly, wakes the feared clarity/stability/off-flavor monster.

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+1 to that. Pectin in beer is usually not a good thing.

I've got 4lbs of local strawberries bagged in my secondary on top of a blonde ale. All I did with field berries was wash, cut, freeze for 24 hours (to break them down on thaw) and tossed them in frozen to secondary. It's been two weeks, smells and tastes great.

drkaeppel said:

On pureeing fruit before putting it into the fermentor:
I would just keep in mind that you will eventually have to rack that into a bottling bucket or keg. Sounds like it might get messy or clog your siphon. Never tried it, though, so maybe itl'll work fine.

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Not really an issue. In my experience, puree tends to settle to the bottom with the trub, so if you're skilled at leaving trub behind, you'll be fine. However, just the same, I tend to sanitize a hop bag and cover the inlet of my auto siphon with it before going into the bottling bucket.

jmhart said:

Not really an issue. In my experience, puree tends to settle to the bottom with the trub, so if you're skilled at leaving trub behind, you'll be fine. However, just the same, I tend to sanitize a hop bag and cover the inlet of my auto siphon with it before going into the bottling bucket.

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+1 to this.