Is it the recipe??

Problem: I've got a batch that's got this sorta weird sickly sweet aftertaste... almost like sweet orange peel in beer, but like a little sweeter. It's not hugely pronounced, and the up-front taste is about what I was going for -- it's just that weird aftertaste. I always taste and take notes on the hydrometer samples, and (despite the fact that this kind of behavior probably was the cause of Revvy's heart condition) I often will crack a bottle or three really early on in the conditioning phase to see how it's coming, and I take notes on that too: And all throughout, the notes read like, "Tastes good, but there's a funny sweet taste, I hope that goes away" or else "Tastes awesome, but there's a funny citric taste, I hope that goes away".

It's now bottled and fully carbed (3 weeks, carbonation level is fantastic), and while it's only been cold-conditioning 48 hours instead of the 4-5 days recommended, it STILL tastes exactly the same: Great nose, just what I was looking for, then a sickly sweet taste leftover. It's improved some from the first couple bottles I cracked, but not a lot.

The only thing I can figure, this was a "leftovers" recipe I just threw together using Beersmith, and while it seems like an unremarkable APA recipe to me, I'm still fairly n00b and have not run this by anybody with more experience. Without further ado:

(Please note, THREE (3) gallon batch)

Batch size: 3 gallons
Nearly full boil (I think I topped off half a gallon maybe after boiloff)
Type: Extract

4.8 oz Crystal 40L
4 oz Cara-Pils
4 lbs Light Dry Extract
0.5 oz Amarillo Gold (10.4%) 60 min
0.5 oz Cascade (6.0%) 10 min
0.5 oz Amarillo Gold (10.4%) 5 min
0.5 oz Cascade (6.0%) Flameout
1 pkg Safale US-05

Measured OG 1.060, Measured FG 1.014
Fermented 23 days in primary at ~62F, then cold-crashed for 2 more days and bottled with 1.5 oz corn sugar.

Maybe too much of the steeping grains? This was my first time using Cara-Pils (that was the only non-leftover ingredient; I happened to be in the LHBS buying already-made beer the day I brewed this, and thought it might be fun to try Cara-Pils to get a little more body) so maybe I just overused that or something? I dunno, the amount of specialty malts seems a LITTLE high now that I look at it, but not excessive. Or is it?

What gives? Is the recipe okay?

If it ain't the recipe, I'm thinking micro-infection perhaps? i.e. some weird infection and then the yeast beat it, but not before off-flavors were left behind?

Oh yeah, I forgot... this is the ONLY time I have cold-crashed, because I am not really set up for it. I had to totally re-arrange the beer fridge, and I was just lucky I didn't have too many beers in bottles at the time to do it (it was tight as it was, and I had to switch to a different fermentation lock that wasn't as tall). The reason I did it is because the US-05 just didn't seem to want to floc out. Even now it's still a little on the cloudy side, though not hugely so for my beers (extract brewer + no cold crash = yeah my beers are not quite crystal clear... not exactly hazy, but not crystal clear either).

Anyway, thoughts?

Nothing wrong with the recipe, and those aren't high steeping grain amounts even for a 3g batch.

Your LHBS is Beers of the World? They aren't the best with grains, but I don't know if that means you bought bad carapils. Maybe old carapils, but I can't see that causing the taste.

Could it just be a citrusy hop flavor? Or maybe you just need to wait a bit more. 1.06 isn't big, but it isn't small either.

My wife also said, "It tastes really sweet" on first taste. I think maybe the hops is what made me experience it as citrusy in about half of my samples, but it is definitely too sweet.

The Cara-Pils was indeed from BotW. I think the crystal was too, though I can't recall for sure. The extract and hops (except maybe the Cascade, again I can't remember) would have been from AHS, and no more than a couple or three weeks old (hops kept in the freezer).

It's almost like the hop flavor vanishes after half a second, and then it's just fermented malt juice. Very weird.

Any type of infection that can cause a sweet flavor?!?

OKay, so a couple things that stuck out. I just happened to be reading about specialty grains for a recipe I'm making, and I read this about carapils: "...a malt that, while adding the good effects of the dextrins to your beer (mouthfeel, head retention), does not add much else in the way of color, flavor, or fermentables."

SO I wouldn't expect it to add an overly sweet citrus flavor. However, they also have this to say: "It should be noted that Carapils malt needs to be mashed, and should be used with other diastatic grains (i.e., 2 Row, Pilsner) in order to complete the starch reactions properly."

I mention this because you brewed an extract recipe, and I'm not sure if you mashed, or simply steeped the grains. I'm not sure what effects it would have not to mash carapils (I've never worked with it), but figured it was worth mentioning.

You know, I get "peachy" weird flavors from SO5 below about 66 degrees, and I'm not the only one who's noticed that.

Could that be what you're picking up?

Yooper said:

You know, I get "peachy" weird flavors from SO5 below about 66 degrees, and I'm not the only one who's noticed that.

Could that be what you're picking up?

Click to expand...

Really? That's good to know. I noticed a peachy/apricot-y flavor hidden in a batch brewed with 1056 at about 64-65*f. I'd assumed it was hops (Amarillo and cascade). Not to hi-jack the thread, but maybe slightly warmer temps for 1056/us05? I know wyeast says 1056 can be citrus-y at cooler temps, maybe that's it?

Thanks for the info. I definitely did not mash the Cara-Pils, as I was under the impression that wasn't necessary. I can't even say I was particularly careful about steeping temp, since I figured I wasn't getting many fermentables from it anyway. I would think that incomplete conversion wouldn't give you a sweet taste, though, would it?

I did ferment it well below 66F... this is not really subtle, though (I think in my OP I was being a little optimistic) so I'm not sure that's it. It is a bit "peachy" though. Maybe that is contributing.

Any suggestions for a standby clean ale yeast (like US-05) that is more tolerant to lower temperatures?

The HBT wiki does not recommend mash for CaraPils: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/CaraPils

FWIW.

So is there any type of infection that can taste sweet?

The only other thing I can think of is that I screwed something up with the hops and it is just not sufficiently bittered. I do have to say though, this was a weird fermentation, to the point I almost worried about some kind of infection... It got like almost milky colored during attenuation due to (I assume) the sheer amount of yeast in it. And like I say, it just didn't seem to want to flocculate.

I've looked at your recipe, and noticed the batch size.
You are using much more crystal than I like, but there are plenty of other people who use similar amounts with good results. It certainly won't result in a sickly taste.
I have also heard that S-05 does not like low fermentation temperatures, but I've never tried fermenting that low with S-05 so I'm not going to try and guess what effect that would have.
The only thing that I can think of that could cause a sickly taste is not boiling hard enough.
If your boil was just a gentle simmer as opposed to a rolling boil, then you will not isomerize the alpha acids and could end up with something that tastes sickly sweet because of the lack of bitterness from the hops.
I'm not saying that this is the cause of your problem, but it is something to consider.

-a.

Interesting thought, people are saying "underhopped" but I have pretty good reason to believe I added all the hops... this could explain the contradiction. Unfortunately it's too far back in the past for me to remember if I did anything funky with the boil that time.

Hmmmm, except my notes say I had about a gallon of boil-off during those 60 minutes, which is typical for me, and I've never had any problems like this with my other beers. (As I mentioned in the other thread, my only other "ruined" batch -- and I ended up drinking it all anyway -- was caused by too-hot fermentation temps and possibly the use of a chlorine-based sanitizer. All my other batches, while I won't claim any of them are perfect, have been well within the parameters of what I'd expect given the limitations of my current process)

That parenthetical remark, by the way, is why I keeping coming back to thinking this is an infection or contamination of some sort. I've got ten batches under my belt now and my process has gotten pretty stable. There are some improvements I could make -- most significantly, actual temperature control, right now I just use my basement, but it's worked out surprisingly well as the temperature never seems to deviate outside of 59-61F, no matter what the weather is doing outside -- but I've been generally happy with the results, and it conforms well with what I have the time, space, and ambition for right now. (I have a two-year-old and a six-month-old, so... yeah) Anyway, my process is not perfect, but it has always produced good beer. Just not this time....