Keeping oatmeal stout from being too sweet

Hi all,

This is my first post here. I've just brewed up my first batch, using the 5 gallon Brewers Best kit. My question is almost certainly a recipe question, so I should have almost certainly asked it before I brewed the batch... No matter, I'll save the advice for next time.

I made the recipe from a Irish Stout kit (Brewers Best), which has Crystal, Roasted Barley and Black Parent, and to this I threw in a couple handfuls of Quaker Oats, at the recommendation of the guy at the homebrew shop. My question is: I like many oatmeal stouts very much, but some of them I find far too sweet. How would I prevent it from becoming too sweet?

The homebrew guy, when I called him, mentioned throwing in a different kind of yeast after the primary fermentation had finished. Does this sound right? And can I do this in the primary fermenter, or should I transfer it to a new bucket? (I only have the fermenting bucket and bottling bucket, but maybe I could transfer to the bottling and then back into the clean fermenter, if needed?).

Here's the recipe I used:

OG: 1.050

Steeping:

12 oz. Crystal 60L
4 oz Roasted Barley
4 oz. Black Patent
Two handfuls (~6 oz?) Quaker Oats

Boiling:

3.3 lbs Dark LME
2.0 lbs Dark DME
.5 lbs Maltodextrin

1.25 oz Bittering hops (Cascadian something*)
1.5 oz Armoa hops*

1 sachet Coopers brewers yeast

*Didn't keep the hop packages, and only now noticed that the type of hops isn't mentioned in the recipe which came with the kit


Any advice appreciated, thanks!

I have no specific experience with oatmeal stouts, however adding yeast in the secondary should further your attenuation, thereby producing more alcohol by consuming fermentables. This should reduce the overall sweet/malty character of the beer.

I made the same mistake of throwing out the hop packages during my first Brewer's Best batch. I just started using Beer Calculus, it seems like a simple (and free) way to keep track of your batches. I also use a small weekly planner to track all my dates. When I first came here, I had only ever brewed one batch, and thought everyone here must be very forgetful when it comes to their beer, but now I can see how easy it is to forget the date of a brew day or what hop schedule you followed for a beer when you have made 3 since.

One key to getting proper attenuation is pitching the right amount of yeast. Are the Coopers yeast packs the smaller ones? If so you might need to pitch more. I'd hesitate from putting more yeast in a secondary. The purpose of a secondary is to clear a beer. Putting in more yeast defeats the purpose.

As far as your recipe goes, you won't get much more than maybe some body from the oats. Adjuncts like that really need to be mashed with a base grain to actually extract any fermentables.

Not trying to scare you, but this isn't a dry stout. It has crystal, maltodextrin and dark malt extract. All of those are going to add a fair amount of unfermentables. I'd say, pitch more yeast in the primary then see how it goes.

More yeast at this stage isn't going to help anything.

Attenuation - the process whereby yeast metabolize wort sugars into carbon dioxide gas, ethanol, and trace chemical esters - is governed not by how much yeast you pitch but by what strain of yeast and the type of sugars in the wort.

Ale yeasts are incapable of metabolizing certain sugars. A surfeit of those sugars in the beer gives the beer the perception of full body (a full mouthfeel) or residual sweetness. Certain ale yeasts are capable of metabolizing some of those sugars; that's why certain yeasts are said to be more attenuative than others.

Yes, you do want to pitch the right amount of yeast. Some yeasts come in smaller packets than others; with dry yeasts, an appropriate pitch is one 11g sachet. If the sachet is smaller, pitch two. (Note: This is a gross oversimplification. If you want to know more, ask.)

The malts included in the grist - all the malt and grain ingredients in the recipe, including malt extract - will have a profound effect on what sort of sugars make it into the wort and thence into the finished beer. Grists high in Crystal or Caramel malts (two different names for essentially the same thing) will result in high levels of unfermentable sugars. Dark malt extracts have included Crystal malts already; that's part of what makes them Dark. Dark extracts are by their very nature less fermentable than Pale/Light or even Amber because of these other malts.

Another unfermentable sugar is dextrin. Maltodextrin is designed to increase the body and mouthfeel of beer. Adding it to a recipe already rich with unfermentable sugars is a sure-fire way to a thick, chewy beer without the addition of oats.

Speaking of oats, Edcculus is 100% correct: You really don't get anything useful from steeping flaked oats in an extract beer. All you get is an awful sticky mess to clean up. Oats - along with all other flaked grains - must be mashed to get anything out of them.

After all that blather, the moral of the story is this: Don't go adding stuff to your beer now. Congratulate yourself on brewing a thick, chewy, rather sweet stout and enjoy it for what it is. Don't beat yourself up for missing the mark. If at first you don't succeed, redefine success! That's one of the joys of brewing as an amateur. You can redefine success.

(Psst! Wanna know a secret? Pros do it too. Ask me sometime about the Bob's Best Bitter that turned into "Belgian Pale Ale" because something went wro...koff koff...got redefined. )

Regards,

Bob

+1 on using a fuller attenuating yeast such as Nottingham or Safale 05.

Also consider substituting 12 oz of chocolate malt for the Crystal. This will reduce sweetness and give you some nice bitter chocolate flavors.

Thanks for all the responses!

Ok, so trying to synthesize:

- I should probably not do anything right now
- There's no point in adding more of the same yeast
- There could be value in adding some different yeast such as Nottingham or Safale 05

Do those sound right so far?

If I did pitch in some other yeast, when would the best time to do this be? After the first yeast has finished doing it's business? And I would do it right in the primary fermenter?

Finally, would there be any point in doing a secondary fermentation in a stout such as this? (I'm getting the vibe from reading the forums that many people here seem not to think too highly of secondary fermentations.) And if I were to do one, could I do it using my two basic buckets by siphoning into the bottling bucket, cleaning the fermenting bucket, and siphoning back into there? Hmmm, even typing that out I'm seeing that I'm greatly multiplying the chances of baddies getting in there, aren't I?

In order:

1. True. You should do nothing. Let it ride.
2. True. See No. 1.
3. Untrue. See No. 1.

There is no point in adding more yeast. The recommendations are for next time, i.e., the next time you brew this recipe (should you ever do so), or for your next brew, whatever that may be.

You can rack the stout. Stout doesn't generally need storage in a second vessel, because it's opaque and usually doesn't get flavorings. Let me explain that.

The "secondary fermenter" serves a couple of purposes, none of which have anything to do with fermentation. (By the time the beer hits the "secondary", the ferment better be finished, or you're screwing something up.)

The second vessel is primarily for clarification and bulk-aging. The longer the beer sits in the secondary the clearer it will become, and the more the flavors will meld. The secondary is also generally where flavorings - from fruit to hops to spices - are introduced, as well as agents which promote clearing, such as gelatin and Isinglass.

Transferring to a second vessel for bulk aging once the primary is over has the added benefit of freeing your primary for another batch of beer. Keep the pipeline full, I always say (though I can seldom keep up with my own advice).

Provided cleanliness and sanitation are scrupulously observed, I foresee no problem with the method you propose. A better solution is getting a plastic carboy, bung, and airlock from your LHBS and racking into that.

Regards,

Bob