Why do some kits have both LME and DME? I'm not an extract brewer, so maybe it's a stupid question.
Why not just one or the other?
Why not just one or the other?
Why BOTH LME and DME
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I do an occasional NB extract kit, and I noticed that their recipes tend to be X pounds of LME plus 0-2 pounds of DME. That always seemed strange, but I noticed that they only sell LME in 3lb and 6lb jugs. I think they try to get as close as they can to target gravity using 3lb units of LME (since it's cheaper) and then fine tune by adding smaller increments of DME.
Other than that, I can't really see a reason to use both either.
Other than that, I can't really see a reason to use both either.
Good Question.
When I buy my ingredients separately, I almost always purchase DME simply because LME doesn't hold up in storage as well, and I can assume that the DME will be fresher. Also LME tends to be darker for the style of beer it's designed for, so DME is more accurate that way.
But I don't know why a kit would have both unless the LME was a better flavor match, or maybe because DME isn't pre-hopped like LME can be.
When I buy my ingredients separately, I almost always purchase DME simply because LME doesn't hold up in storage as well, and I can assume that the DME will be fresher. Also LME tends to be darker for the style of beer it's designed for, so DME is more accurate that way.
But I don't know why a kit would have both unless the LME was a better flavor match, or maybe because DME isn't pre-hopped like LME can be.
Sometimes it's because of a "special" LME. I know NB has Munich malt extract, for example, only in LME. DME can be used in any amount, but usually comes in 1 pound or 3 pound bags while LME often comes in 3.3 pound cans. LME is also cheaper. So, it's just combining them to get the recipe right.
I have to agree with yooper on this point. I like mixing DME with LME in what I call "recombinant extract". Lme from one country,DME from another (either literally or stylistically). Different countries have different aroma/flavor/color profiles that I think can be used to more easily clone a style. Or at least,the flavors one might like from different examples of a style.
Not to leave out the type of hops that are "classic" to any given style. With the amount of extracts,different forms of hops,water adjusting chemicals,etc,it's just too much fun not to experiment stylistically.
But also to get within SG range,IBU's,SBU's...Not to leave out FU2's when you just have to try something different. That's how inventions are discovered some times. The classic "happy accident".
Not to leave out the type of hops that are "classic" to any given style. With the amount of extracts,different forms of hops,water adjusting chemicals,etc,it's just too much fun not to experiment stylistically.
But also to get within SG range,IBU's,SBU's...Not to leave out FU2's when you just have to try something different. That's how inventions are discovered some times. The classic "happy accident".
McGarnigle
Well-Known Member
I agree with Yooper's second point...that it's mostly just the volumes right.
Me too, seems to be mostly to hit the intended gravity with the available packaging sizes.
Another factor to take into account for using both is hitting the target SRM. LME is typical darker than DME (except for wheat which is reverse). For example, with my Belgian Wit's I used wheat LME and Pilsen DME since if I'd used wheat DME it would be darker than the style guideline's maximum SRM.
Rev.
Here on O`ahu our local, (read only one) LHBS has 3 55 gal. cans of LME. He sells it by the lb and puts it into plastic bags sealed w/a rubber band. so if you want 6.3 lbs it's no problem.
Everytime I walk in, from Tuesday mornings at say 10 a.m. or Sunday's at noon there are always people buying something. I sure hope his product is moving to keep it fresh.
kable
Well-Known Member
Besides the kits, recipes in things like BYO also do this.
I have wondered if they maybe do this so that you can follow the late extract addition method, but since it isn't mentioned in the instructions I am probably wrong.
Sent from my Android, please excuse my grammar.
I have wondered if they maybe do this so that you can follow the late extract addition method, but since it isn't mentioned in the instructions I am probably wrong.
Sent from my Android, please excuse my grammar.
alexdagrate
Well-Known Member
I've abandoned DME since the LME at my LHBS is very fresh and very cheap.
I did find the body to be lacking in some of my brews, so I've taken to adding 2 ounces of maltodextrin to all my brews. I added 8 ounces of maltodextrin to a russian imperial stout because I want it to be especially chewy.
After 3 years of extract brewing with only LME, I can't see any reason to use DME if you have a fresh supply of LME. I can't stand all the clumping that occurs with DME.
I did find the body to be lacking in some of my brews, so I've taken to adding 2 ounces of maltodextrin to all my brews. I added 8 ounces of maltodextrin to a russian imperial stout because I want it to be especially chewy.
After 3 years of extract brewing with only LME, I can't see any reason to use DME if you have a fresh supply of LME. I can't stand all the clumping that occurs with DME.
The DME clumping up doesn't bother me. I just stir it into the boiling hot water till it dissolves,which doesn't really take that long. But LME & DME both have good qualities so far as flavor & color are concerned. The dme can help keep the LME from getting too dark. But the flavor profiles of both won't necessarily be the same. Hence my idea of mixing those flavors to get more complexity. You have to take into account what style/country they're coming from. That's part of the fun,imo.
D-MOTITAN
Well-Known Member
I have mostly done extract brews, i have read in Ray Daniels "Designing Great Beers", that syrup products generally had a slightly better flavor. Of course that is depending on your source for liquid malt and its freshness and reliability.
RumRiverBrewer
Well-Known Member
The DME in kits is used because it raises the OG higher than LME can. I've seen this in practice by replacing the same weight of LME with DME.
RumRiverBrewer
Well-Known Member
Ya... shore, if there'z any left 
I am a new brewer I have only just bottled my first extract batch,and cant wait to try it out,but I ordered a Dunkelweizen from Northern Brewers which came with two jugs of LME. I also ordered 3 #s of DME,I plan on adding 1 # of the DME to the wort to get a little higher alcohol content.I called them up and asked if it would be ok to do that,and they said 1# of DME would change the gravity by .08,i think,and I should be ok,but it will affect the hops bitterness a little. I am wondering what happens if I just let the wort cool by itself,as I dont have a chiller and an ice bath dont seem practical in my case. I guess if I have to use ice i will,but would still like to know what happens if I dont. Thanks.
RumRiverBrewer
Well-Known Member
1# of extra DME isn't going to change much of anything style or taste-wise.
Ice bath is fine - make sure you have plenty of ice/water surrounding the brew pot. It'll make it cool much faster if you mix the ice water around the pot occasionally. (Don't mess with the wort though)
Ice bath is fine - make sure you have plenty of ice/water surrounding the brew pot. It'll make it cool much faster if you mix the ice water around the pot occasionally. (Don't mess with the wort though)
Wyrmwood
Well-Known Member
Use brewtarget. It's free and you can enter your ingredients from the kit exactly as it comes, then copy the recipe and add your dme. You can then play with the hop schedule to keep the same (or more or less) IBUs. Remember to use the pitch rate calculator, and if you are using liquid yeast, you'll probably want a starter (to get the higher pitch rate without pitching multiple vials). If you are using dry yeast, just make sure you use enough (again, the pitch rate calculator will tell you - in oz, so * 28 to get grams).
Wyrmwood
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I tried to buy 6 lbs of Amber LME and 3 lbs of Amber DME and the LHBS guy looked at me like I'd lost my mind. He asked me why not just get 10 lbs of LME? I didn't realize they could do that
The other LHBS only sells Breiss LME in 3.3lbs and 6 lbs. When I order online, it's either 3.3, 6 or 33 lbs of LME, 1, 3 or 55 lbs of DME. Having said that, I don't believe the 10lbs I got measured up. I had an anticipated OG of 1.079, yet ended up 1.071, so either they didn't read the scale right or the efficiency was only around 70%. That also may have something to do with the age of the LME.
I've also seen batches that mix it up; like pilsen, munich and dark lme, or pilsen lme and light dme. I would guess it's a matter of convenience (existing package sizes combined to get a desired gravity), taste (combining different types for a desired flavor) and real estate (what fits nicely in the recipe box).
