How to finish a barrel of cider

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blackwater

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I have a 55 gallon white oak barrel that has finished fermenting and has a alcohol content of about 11.5 percent. The samples appear to be clear and the taste is dry with a bit of a bite to it. I'm moving this tread here as I high jacked another thread and don't want to continue doing that.

So My thoughts are to leave it in the barrel until June but don't know how to finish it. It is a bit flavorless for my taste but maybe that will change over the next 4-5 months in the barrel. In order to make it semi-sweet what would be the best route to go?? Also whats the procedure for racking this in June. Do I rack into something else and bottle from there or do I bottle at my leisure from the barrel?

Any ideas would be helpful.

Thanks,

Chris
 
Were you using the 55 gal barrel as the primary?

Test the gravity to see if it's done fermenting.

Is it clear? If the gravity is down (per the projected attenuation percentage of the yeast) and it's clear it's time to bottle.
 
He mentioned in another thread that it is down to .998. And yeah its his primary. I would argue to take advantage of the barrel for bulk aging.
 
Didn't see that thread...well, then, the only obvious answer is to add elevate it and place an IV in your arm...:drunk:

If you want to keep it still then just serve from there while bulk aging.

If you want to sweeten it or add more apple flavor then I would rack 5 gals to a carboy and add 1 tablespoon of potassium sorbate to retard the yeast wait 2 days then add 1 can of frozen (thawed) concentrated apple juice to it and stir then bottle. This produces a nice cider, but you can't carbonate it.
 
homebrewer_99 said:
Didn't see that thread...well, then, the only obvious answer is to add elevate it and place an IV in your arm...:drunk:

If you want to keep it still then just serve from there while bulk aging.

If you want to sweeten it or add more apple flavor then I would rack 5 gals to a carboy and add 1 tablespoon of potassium sorbate to retard the yeast wait 2 days then add 1 can of frozen (thawed) concentrated apple juice to it and stir then bottle. This produces a nice cider, but you can't carbonate it.
Click to expand...

Cool, so that's 1 can of concentrate per 5 gallon carboy right?
Any other sweeteners that people have tried?
What if I did want to carbonate?
How would I semi-sweeten and also carbonate?

Thanks,

Chris
 
Without kegging equipment, the only way to safely carbonate and sweeten for a new guy is to backsweeten with unfermentable sugars (splenda, lactose, stevia) and then prime it with 1 oz of sugar per gallon.
 
Well i will tell you how to finnish a barrle of cider... give it to me:rockin:

no but really your on the right track... more then that i would say do what my Calc professor says when ever it comes to doing a derivitved of e^x... that is "Leave it Alone, Leave it Alone".... Sounds great

Cheers
 
blackwater said:
Cool, so that's 1 can of concentrate per 5 gallon carboy right?
Any other sweeteners that people have tried?
What if I did want to carbonate?
How would I semi-sweeten and also carbonate?

Thanks,

Chris
Click to expand...
After using potassium sorbate (stops further fermentation) and waiting a few days I've used 1 can of concentrate per 5 gal batch to back flavor it. Make sure you don't add any water, just the concentrate from the can.

If you use PS you can't carbonate unless you are using a kegging system.

If you just want to make it sweeter (or semi-sweeter as you asked) before bottling then you can use some Splenda since it doesn't ferment...and some priming sugar to make the carbonation. I've used 1/4 C for a batch and thought it was too sweet. Reduce that by at least half and sample. You can always add more.

If you want to thicken a thin tasting batch you can add some malto dextrin (also non-fermentable) with the priming sugar and bottle.

Hope this helps.
 
homebrewer_99 said:
After using potassium sorbate (stops further fermentation) and waiting a few days I've used 1 can of concentrate per 5 gal batch to back flavor it. Make sure you don't add any water, just the concentrate from the can.

If you use PS you can't carbonate unless you are using a kegging system.

If you just want to make it sweeter (or semi-sweeter as you asked) before bottling then you can use some Splenda since it doesn't ferment...and some priming sugar to make the carbonation. I've used 1/4 C for a batch and thought it was too sweet. Reduce that by at least half and sample. You can always add more.

If you want to thicken a thin tasting batch you can add some malto dextrin (also non-fermentable) with the priming sugar and bottle.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the ideas!! Has anyone ever added spices or would recommend doing so? Would adding Cinnamon or nutmeg or anything like that at this point help give it more body??

Thanks,

Chris
 
For body you need to add Malto Dextrin. It is a non-fermentable sugar (powder).

Just remove a cup or so of cider, heat it up then add the MD to dissolve and pour it back into the cider.

1 oz per 5 gals works well. ;)
 
homebrewer_99 said:
For body you need to add Malto Dextrin. It is a non-fermentable sugar (powder).

Just remove a cup or so of cider, heat it up then add the MD to dissolve and pour it back into the cider.

1 oz per 5 gals works well. ;)
Click to expand...

So i could add this to the barrel right now. Maybe 10 oz. and heat up some cider, mix it in and then pour back into the barrel and let sit???
What about pouring 10 frozen concentrates into the barrel now too and stirring it up with the MD and let that sit??
What about some cinnamen and some nutmeg??

Thanks,

Chris
 
If you don't stabilize it first, then adding 10 frozen juice concentrates will just give it more sugar for the yeast to eat. And they will eat it, leaving it just as dry as before and a bit higher alcohol.
 
You could always add brown sugar or honey to sweeten for an extra dimension of flavor, rather than concentrate. You'll still have to hit it with sorbate, of course, and will only be able to force carb if you want some fizz.

Forget about *body;* it's a cider, and should be crisp.

I would definitely let it age and take advantage of the oak before worrying about carbing it. Taste it, say, every 3 weeks, and when the oak is just overpowering, rack it out. The oak will mellow out, and if you rack when you like it, it'll seem underoaked once it has aged a bit out of the oak. overoaking gets you to perfect age and perfect flavor together.

Personally, I made my cider with a sour apple blend, and added raisins, honey, and dried cranberries for flavor. The flavor is crisp and tart.

When I make apfelwein, I use 5 gal of apple juice, 2 lb dark brown sugar, 1 stick cinnamon, and 5 cloves for a fuller flavor than apple juice + dextrose.

My most recent batch used unfiltered apple juice (it came in 1 gal glass bottles and I wanted 1 gal fermenters), and it is taking much longer to clear. Stick to unfiltered AJ if you're looking for apfelwein. Cider takes longer and is worth the wait if you got a higher quality juice.
 
Moonshae said:
You could always add brown sugar or honey to sweeten for an extra dimension of flavor, rather than concentrate. You'll still have to hit it with sorbate, of course, and will only be able to force carb if you want some fizz.

Forget about *body;* it's a cider, and should be crisp.

I would definitely let it age and take advantage of the oak before worrying about carbing it. Taste it, say, every 3 weeks, and when the oak is just overpowering, rack it out. The oak will mellow out, and if you rack when you like it, it'll seem underoaked once it has aged a bit out of the oak. overoaking gets you to perfect age and perfect flavor together.

Personally, I made my cider with a sour apple blend, and added raisins, honey, and dried cranberries for flavor. The flavor is crisp and tart.

When I make apfelwein, I use 5 gal of apple juice, 2 lb dark brown sugar, 1 stick cinnamon, and 5 cloves for a fuller flavor than apple juice + dextrose.

My most recent batch used unfiltered apple juice (it came in 1 gal glass bottles and I wanted 1 gal fermenters), and it is taking much longer to clear. Stick to unfiltered AJ if you're looking for apfelwein. Cider takes longer and is worth the wait if you got a higher quality juice.
Click to expand...

Alright! So I will add stabilizer to the barrel tomorrow and then wait 2 days. Then I will add maybe 7 cans of concentrate, some Cinnamon and stir. And then......... Wait a long time before I bottle!!
 
Make sure you use the correct amount of stabilizer, read the intructions since you are adding it to such a large batch.
 
Tusch said:
Make sure you use the correct amount of stabilizer, read the intructions since you are adding it to such a large batch.
Click to expand...

Ok So I took out 5 gallons from the barrel in the beginning to make room for sugar so I guess the barrel contains 50 gallons now. Is it better to go under rather than over it terms of stabilizer??
 
blackwater said:
Alright! So I will add stabilizer to the barrel tomorrow and then wait 2 days. Then I will add maybe 7 cans of concentrate, some Cinnamon and stir. And then......... Wait a long time before I bottle!!
Click to expand...

I would advise against some of your idea's.

With that much cider (55 gals) you have the opportunity to make 11 different ciders (5 gal batches, and even more with smaller batches...)!!

You could use potassium sorbate to stop further fermentation and add any/all flavorings you want in secondary containers. ;)

You can make a cranberry one, a cinnamon one, etc.

Just something to think about versus making only 1 flavor...:D
 
homebrewer_99 said:
I would advise against some of your idea's.

With that much cider (55 gals) you have the opportunity to make 11 different ciders (5 gal batches, and even more with smaller batches...)!!

You could use potassium sorbate to stop further fermentation and add any/all flavorings you want in secondary containers. ;)

You can make a cranberry one, a cinnamon one, etc.

Just something to think about versus making only 1 flavor...:D
Click to expand...



thats probably the best idea, thus you can try a plentiful amount of different variety and ways of adding taste, then make a big singular batch if one sticks out as better than the rest in the future
 
homebrewer_99 said:
I would advise against some of your idea's.

With that much cider (55 gals) you have the opportunity to make 11 different ciders (5 gal batches, and even more with smaller batches...)!!

You could use potassium sorbate to stop further fermentation and add any/all flavorings you want in secondary containers. ;)

You can make a cranberry one, a cinnamon one, etc.

Just something to think about versus making only 1 flavor...:D
Click to expand...

Alright!!!!!!
What a great idea.
Stabilize tomorrow and wait until June or whenever the oak flavor becomes too much.
Right On!!
 
alex_wilkosz said:
thats probably the best idea, thus you can try a plentiful amount of different variety and ways of adding taste, then make a big singular batch if one sticks out as better than the rest in the future
Click to expand...

Right on! i like the way you guys think!

Thanks,

Chris
 
homebrewer_99 said:
I was going to ask...do you always have access to that many apples/cider?

Your profile has you as a 39 yo female...any of this true?

Anywho...where are you located geographically?
Click to expand...

That's a mistake in my profile. I'll have to change that somehow.

I got married to my wife at an apple orchard up the road and the people that run the farm and 3 other farms kind of took a liking to us and our families so I guess we do have access to that every year.

We live in New Hampshire USA
 
homebrewer_99 said:
I was going to ask...do you always have access to that many apples/cider?

Your profile has you as a 39 yo female...any of this true?

Anywho...where are you located geographically?
Click to expand...

Not to mention a 200+ dollar oak barrel....I thought I read a thread before that he paid under 200 for the entire thing. talk about too good to be true. I thought I was getting a deal when I got fresh pressed for under 5 a gallon.
 
I was lucky that the orchard found a barrel for me and was able to fill it for me as well. Not sure if I should give out the name and how much he wants to be pressing next fall. I'll try and get in touch with him and get back to you about giving out the info. Hardest working people I've ever met! I will say that I got the whole deal for $160 so I'm pretty sure that I got a deal.

Chris
 
I've left messages for them but no response yet.

I bottled up six wine bottles of cider and put in 2 tsp fermenting sugar and waited 2 days before opening but very little carbonation. I wonder why???
 
blackwater said:
I've left messages for them but no response yet.

I bottled up six wine bottles of cider and put in 2 tsp fermenting sugar and waited 2 days before opening but very little carbonation. I wonder why???
Click to expand...

hey blackwater, was wondering how this turned out.

two questions.

1) did you bottle in pressure proof bottles?

2) what kind of sugar did you use?

The second doesnt matter much now but the real answer to your question is that you havent waited long enough, the rule of thumb is 1-2 weeks around 70F for proper carbing, sometimes longer... i just hope you didnt try to carb in regular wine bottles (not pressure proof)... those will take about 1.5 atm before they blow... and if your lucky you just lose the cort and get a mess of brew... if not you get a bottle bomb and you might lose an eye.

Cheers
 
Thanks Jack!
I bought the bottles from the brew store so I'm pretty sure they're pressure proof but definitely good to know. I thought we could bottle in anything but I guess not. This stuff tastes just like wine. I'm amazed at how little cider flavor there is. Maybe I used too much sugar but I really don't care because I've got 50 gallons of wine that my wife can drink instead of me buying wine at the grocery all the time!!!

Thanks Jack.

Now if I could just figure out a safe way to make vodka inside my house we would both have what we want for drinks.

Chris
 
blackwater said:
Thanks Jack!
I bought the bottles from the brew store so I'm pretty sure they're pressure proof but definitely good to know. I thought we could bottle in anything but I guess not. This stuff tastes just like wine. I'm amazed at how little cider flavor there is. Maybe I used too much sugar but I really don't care because I've got 50 gallons of wine that my wife can drink instead of me buying wine at the grocery all the time!!!

Thanks Jack.

Now if I could just figure out a safe way to make vodka inside my house we would both have what we want for drinks.

Chris
Click to expand...


If your really interested in this PM me, i spent a couple years trying to learn the art of home made hard liquor. I could tell you a few things.

Your reason for loseing alot fo your apple taste has three possiable variables. One is weather or not the cider was quite flavorful in the first place. Two is that CO2 scrubbing would cause you to loose alot of flavor in the process of fermentation, this is espically a problem if number one is true. Three a function of ABV which would "burn" out any real apple flavor you would have with the taste of achohal, this is correctable with proper ageing. You can also help improve apple flavor by useing apple juice to carb rather then plain sugar.

The most common rule of thumb is 8oz of juice per regular oz of priming sugar (which the rule of thumb per that is 1oz per gallon) which would be used seeing as most store bought apple juice has 25-30g of fruit sugar per 8 oz serving which is roughly 1 oz give or take.

Cheers
 
Cool, 8oz of juice per gallon of wine.
Plus, like you said, aging in that barrel should help with oak and apple flavor I'm hoping.

Thanks,

Chris
 
blackwater said:
Cool, 8oz of juice per gallon of wine.
Plus, like you said, aging in that barrel should help with oak and apple flavor I'm hoping.

Thanks,

Chris
Click to expand...

if you want that PM about vodca your gonna have to clear out some of your PM in your folder, your over your limit and i cant send you one until you get rid of some of yours.

this should get you started

Home Distillation of Alcohol

that should answer alot of your questions... but this is a brewing website so i would sugest you dont talk about it here.

cheers
 
BrewinJack said:
if you want that PM about vodca your gonna have to clear out some of your PM in your folder, your over your limit and i cant send you one until you get rid of some of yours.

this should get you started

Home Distillation of Alcohol

that should answer alot of your questions... but this is a brewing website so i would sugest you dont talk about it here.

cheers
Click to expand...

Sorry bout that brewinjack. I cleared it out,
 

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