Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!

Wanted to show everyone my closed system fermentation rig. Maybe a little overkill but so far I've had great success.
I found the the perlick lo-boy taps have a 1/8" NPT hose barbs with can be unscrewed and replaced with hard mount connections.

*edit: resize image

Do you have a bigger image available? I can't quite make this one out. ಠ_ಠ

Seriously though, what is the part you used to connect to the keg?

EDIT: Ah, just realized that's the perlick lo-boy tap.

Wow, that is a sweet setup. Love the lo-boy tap. I need to try one of those out. Is that water vapor in the filter prior to the pressure and relief valve? Also, why the extra line and valve prior to the filter and relief valve? Just curious as to what you use this for? One last question, how full is the fermentor? Have you tried it full enough to catch krausen in the filter?

The extra line is there to hold the filter and valve up and on top of the keg. I wanted to be able to pick the whole assembly up put it in a keezer/fermentation chamber without a bunch of soft dangly parts extending outside the top of the keg.

I used the extra relief valve and filter because I was maybe a little too concerned about the back pressure valve becoming clogged and not relieving pressure. The first ferment I was having visions of the bottom blowing off and the keg going through the roof.. anyways - the extra valve is also useful if after the cold crash, the pressure it too low to transfer. If the keg comes out of the chiller with very low pressure I can attach a co2 tube and pump the pressure up to 12-15 psi again.

There is about 8 gallons in this one which is about my maximum batch size, and I've never gotten anything other than condensed water in the filter. I'm hoping to move up to 14/15 gal batches and see what happens.

I can't tell how big that filter is but I can tell you from experience, a 15 gallon batch will blow off a ton of krausen. I would be worried about filling up the filter and still plugging the pressure relief valve.

Just my $0.02

That was my worry too cmuench about the filter size for the application I would use it for. I would like it to catch the krausen for two reasons, to keep the spunding valve clean and to top crop yeast. I'm still thinking of a smaller house water filter for my catch-reservoir. I was hoping those lo-boys would stick up more for spunding use, but I think I will buy a couple for actual serving based on the picture. I think those are going to rock in my kegerator. Then I can use the lever lock connectors for transfers/spunding and have dedicated connectors for serving.

mda, I am going to have to steal your idea and add the extra valve pre-filter/cropper for several reasons (some you just gave me). That would come in really handy! Great job again on your setup. Hope you move up to bigger batches real soon.

I recently started having problems with snap rings popping off under pressure. Long story short, I decided to buy a brewers hardware kit.

I was trolling this thread and considering how I wanted to set it up when I saw this on Derrin's site:

Warning! This kit is designed to convert an American Sanke keg into a very nice stainless steel fermeter. This kit is NOT DESIGNED TO HOLD PRESSURE! Please be aware that THERE IS NO PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE in the cap. Do not use any hose or tubing clamps on any of the tube connections or an unsafe amount of pressure could build in the fermenter during fermentation.

Click to expand...

I seem to recall others using Derrin's kit. Can anyone chime in to discuss the pressure limits of his setup?

I just want to be able to carb up during fermentation, but on my last batch I left the spund valve closed and it got up kind of high. Anyone know the limits of this setup?

This is just another reason I use the normal keg stuff. I think his is just a disclaimer for legal issues, and I believe his will hold up to the pressures. He has a nice setup for sale! How have you had problems with snap rings failing? They are supposed to hold up on kegs that are already carbonated (and even on kegs that have heated up after being carbonated which are at a much greater than normal pressure). Curious, so please let us know.

WortMonger said:

This is just another reason I use the normal keg stuff. I think his is just a disclaimer for legal issues, and I believe his will hold up to the pressures. He has a nice setup for sale! How have you had problems with snap rings failing? They are supposed to hold up on kegs that are already carbonated (and even on kegs that have heated up after being carbonated which are at a much greater than normal pressure). Curious, so please let us know.

Click to expand...

I use the Mcmaster snap rings with the ears and the pliers. They have generally worked fine up to 20psi or so. But sometimes they are a hassle to get on as they seem thicker than the original ring.

Anyway, my keezer was full and I was trying to carb a hefeweizen. I set it to about 15psi in my fermentation keezer at 36 degrees. I went to grab a sample that night and found the ring had popped off 15lb CO2 tank was drained.

This happened a few times here or there, but usually at higher pressures. Lately, it's happening more and more. I have so much trouble getting the original rings out that I just can't imagine using them. Once the snap rings from Mcmaster failed, I decided to go with the with brewers hardware setup.

mda said:

Wanted to show everyone my closed system fermentation rig. Maybe a little overkill but so far I've had great success.
I found the the perlick lo-boy taps have a 1/8" NPT hose barbs with can be unscrewed and replaced with hard mount connections.

*edit: resize image

Click to expand...

What do you have in the keg opening there? That's not a brewers hardware kit. Is it your own creation?

Very nice!

Can anyone post a pic of their setup with a brewers hardware set. I'm just now coming to understand that the system is designed not with compression fittings, but with o-rings made to pop off under pressure.

So I assume I would need a compression Ferrule for the racking cane and a second one for the blow off port that I will attach my spund manifold to?

Can anyone post what size compression fittings to buy? Since Derrin's instructions said the blow off port was 1/2", I bought a 5/8" compression fitting. It's too big, though. Is the 1/2" outside diameter, then? Is the racking cane 3/8" OD as well?

Many thanks.

Poindexter said:

I am still working in Corny's only, I don't own any Sanke kegs.

I have mostly been filling the primary fermenter Corny to about 4.5 Gallons, with a jump tube from the grey post on the primary to the black post on a second Corny with a bit of water in the bottom, perhaps a quart, and then putting the spunding valve on the grey post of the second Corny.

Click to expand...

I'm interested in this process as described by Poindexter, however I would like to jump 2 cornys with 4.5 gallons each and a 3rd with the spunding valve riding on that. Has anybody done this? How would the jump tubes be configured? Thanks...

Dgonza9 said:

Can anyone post what size compression fittings to buy? Since Derrin's instructions said the blow off port was 1/2", I bought a 5/8" compression fitting. It's too big, though. Is the 1/2" outside diameter, then? Is the racking cane 3/8" OD as well?

Click to expand...

Correct, 1/2" OD gas and 3/8" OD liquid.

Found this super cheap option if anyone is interested. It looks identical to the morebeer one. https://www.homebrewing.org/Adjustable-Pressure-Relief-Valve-w-Gauge_p_1813.html

Just an update on filtering. At this point I think that a week long cold crash is just as effective. For now, I'm retiring the filter. I'd be curious to hear anyone else's experiences, though.

I'm getting ready to make the plunge, but I have one question for you guys.

My plan is to ferment in a normal sanke keg using a modified sanke coupler.
I would like to mount a cross off of the air side of the coupler with a gauge, pressure relief valve and a gas line to a grey (gas) corny disconnect.
The beer side I would split with a t to a picnic tap and a black (beer) corny disconnect.


My apologies for the crappy edited picture.

I would then ferment under pressure, and use the picnic tap to remove the yeast.

Since my CO2 tank is in my kegerator (not in my garage where I ferment) Here is my question.

For transferring to a corny, since the sanke keg is at pressure, could I (without connecting to a CO2 tank) connect then disconnect the corny with the grey (gas) disconnect (off of the sanke coupler gas side) to equalize the pressure, then connect the black (beer) disconnect to transfer by placing the receiving keg lower than the filling keg venting pressure using the corny relief valve?

My thoughts are the initial pressure differential would get the transfer started, and then the siphon effect (from having the receiving keg lower than the fermenting keg) would finish the transfer without losing the carbonation in the beer.

Would this work? Or is my reasoning flawed?

See this link: This is the only way I have been able to find to this easily a bit pricey but everything seems to be.

http://stores.kegconnection.com/Categories.bok?category=*Commercial+to+Homebrew+Conversion

Oh and watch the video.

stoneman said:

I'm getting ready to make the plunge, but I have one question for you guys.

My plan is to ferment in a normal sanke keg using a modified sanke coupler.
I would like to mount a cross off of the air side of the coupler with a gauge, pressure relief valve and a gas line to a grey (gas) corny disconnect.
The beer side I would split with a t to a picnic tap and a black (beer) corny disconnect.

My apologies for the crappy edited picture.

I would then ferment under pressure, and use the picnic tap to remove the yeast.

Since my CO2 tank is in my kegerator (not in my garage where I ferment) Here is my question.

For transferring to a corny, since the sanke keg is at pressure, could I (without connecting to a CO2 tank) connect then disconnect the corny with the grey (gas) disconnect (off of the sanke coupler gas side) to equalize the pressure, then connect the black (beer) disconnect to transfer by placing the receiving keg lower than the filling keg venting pressure using the corny relief valve?

My thoughts are the initial pressure differential would get the transfer started, and then the siphon effect (from having the receiving keg lower than the fermenting keg) would finish the transfer without losing the carbonation in the beer.

Would this work? Or is my reasoning flawed?

Click to expand...

Personally I don't think this setup will accomplish what you're trying to do. In my opinion there is no way to leave a closed pressurized system open to air and expect to keep the beer carbonated.

You either keep the system closed and carbonated and use CO2 to transfer; or open it up and use a siphon and gravity or one of those orange carboy caps and blow into it plus gravity to transfer the uncarbonated beer from sankey to corny then carbonate in your kegerator. Just my $0.02

As an update on dry hopping with this technique...

I fermented 15 gal in a sankey, placed my pellet dry hops in a 5 gallon paint strainer bag x 3 folded over and closed at the top with a wire tie into 3 cornies then pressure transferred on top of the dry hops and served. It turned out great.:rockin:

The first keg had a couple of very "grassy" pints for some reason. I don't know if the hop bag leaked, but the second 2 served fantastic Furious.

I plan to try this technique again with this same recipe.

I took apart the top of one of my sankey spears to clean it. Now the rubber O ring doesn't quite sit perfect on the spear like it did before and I can't compress it enough to get the metal ring all the way back in on top of the spear.

Has anyone else had this problem? If so how did you fix it?

I was considering buying the St. Pats sankey valve removal tool to compress the O ring but haven't read that many people have had to resort to this.

Dgonza9 said:

Here's the link to the relief valve

I put the spring in first, then the ball. Perhaps it goes the other way around?


Cheers, guys! Time for a homebrew.

Click to expand...

Sorry to bring up an old portion of this thread but I have a question. What is the ball made of? Is it stainless steel? I seem to have lost mine on the (fairly dirty and uneven) garage floor somewhere and before I get on hands and knees trying to find it I wanted to see if it would be easily replaceable? Or maybe it is magnetic and I can use one of those finder wands to try to find it. If nothing else, I guess I just buy another relief valve and have backup parts, but I really dont want to put another mcmaster order in, those tend to get dangerous on the wallet.

You can see how dirty my garage is by my lack of hope of finding it.

Any help is appreciated.

I am doing my first pressurized fermentation and first fermentation in a sanke keg. I pitched my yeast yesterday afternoon and have not had any pressure build up yet (24 hours). I brewed 11 gallons of a Munich Helles with an OG of 1.052. I cooled the wort to 48 F. I oxygenated the wort with pure O2 and a diffusion stone. The yeast was from a single packet of Wyeast 2124 with a 4 liter stir plate starter that had been cooled and decanted. The morning of the brew, I added one liter of fresh starter wort to the yeast. The yeast was active at pitching time. I have used this yeast in the past with similar methods and not had any issues with lag times. Typically I am seeing airlock activity within 12 hours and krausen within 24 hours.

I am wondering how long it normally takes you guys to start having pressure in your systems for lager beers. Without pressure building up I have no way of knowing if I am having active fermentaion. Just wanting to know if I need to be worried at all. Thanks.

It can vary. I did a hefe recently and had nothing for about the first 20 hours. By 24 hours pressure had soared to 45 psi!

If you had active yeast going in, should take off soon. Let us know.

kpr121 said:

Sorry to bring up an old portion of this thread but I have a question. What is the ball made of? Is it stainless steel? I seem to have lost mine on the (fairly dirty and uneven) garage floor somewhere and before I get on hands and knees trying to find it I wanted to see if it would be easily replaceable? Or maybe it is magnetic and I can use one of those finder wands to try to find it. If nothing else, I guess I just buy another relief valve and have backup parts, but I really dont want to put another mcmaster order in, those tend to get dangerous on the wallet.

You can see how dirty my garage is by my lack of hope of finding it.

Any help is appreciated.

Click to expand...

All the balls I have seen in the various types of devices are made of stainless steel to prevent corrosion. I don't think a magnet will do you much good, sorry. Now if they would just use stainless steel springs in them I wouldn't have to keep buying them myself. I'm going to buy a stainless spring myself, even if it makes the thing inaccurate to the numbers on it... I mean that is why we have a pressure gauge anyways, to read accurate back-pressure. Hope you find your ball soon!

maximus said:

I am doing my first pressurized fermentation and first fermentation in a sanke keg. I pitched my yeast yesterday afternoon and have not had any pressure build up yet (24 hours). I brewed 11 gallons of a Munich Helles with an OG of 1.052. I cooled the wort to 48 F. I oxygenated the wort with pure O2 and a diffusion stone. The yeast was from a single packet of Wyeast 2124 with a 4 liter stir plate starter that had been cooled and decanted. The morning of the brew, I added one liter of fresh starter wort to the yeast. The yeast was active at pitching time. I have used this yeast in the past with similar methods and not had any issues with lag times. Typically I am seeing airlock activity within 12 hours and krausen within 24 hours.

I am wondering how long it normally takes you guys to start having pressure in your systems for lager beers. Without pressure building up I have no way of knowing if I am having active fermentaion. Just wanting to know if I need to be worried at all. Thanks.

Click to expand...

It sounds like you have done everything as I would. I don't think you will have any problems whatsoever. My lagers scared me the same way, and I believe it is due to these possible things:

1) Lager yeast is simply more sluggish compared to ale yeast (ie ales you see reactions faster such as pressure build up).
2) With such a large fermentor, and volume of product, it would take longer to see airlock activity anyway (under "normal" fermentation conditions)... take into effect you are under pressure and that the beer is absorbing some of this gas you would normally see coming out, and then you have another setback on visible activity.

Maximus, my advice is coming with my response to Dgonza9.

Dgonza9 said:

It can vary. I did a hefe recently and had nothing for about the first 20 hours. By 24 hours pressure had soared to 45 psi!

If you had active yeast going in, should take off soon. Let us know.

Click to expand...

Exactly! It takes longer to see results from fermentation... which is why I am adding to what you said Dgonza9 for all reading. Make sure you have set your pressure relief to where you want release of pressure BEFORE you pitch and seal up your keg!!! Maximus, I have done exactly as Dgonza9 has done before and it is scary. When it happens... it happens, and it can be a big surprise, lol. I used to experiment with higher pressure fermentations (30ish psi), but after realizing how much gas is absorbed at the beginning (and understanding the damages it can potentially do) I do 4-7ish psi starts and then increase after I know growth phase of the yeast is done and they have finished the majority of their job. With a full fermentor, I get a mess at lower pressure starts. I am now having issues with pressure building due to these messes, and am in the process of introducing a collector prior to my pressure control devices so I don't get 45 psi surprises... or yeast spray painted walls.

Thanks for the replies and wortmonger thanks for starting this great thread, tons of great information here. I still have not managed to read it all. After 36 hours I am seeing pressure build up in the system. Just needed a little more patience on my side. I will let you know how the batch turns out in the end.
I need a relatively quick turn around for this batch (6 weeks) and here is my current plan. Ferment @ 50F with 5-7 psi until gravity is down to around 1.020. Increase temperature to 60F (diacetyl rest) over two days and bump pressure up to 20 psi (highest my spunding valve allows). Leave @ 60F until fermentation is complete. Slowly cool back to 50 F over two days. Depending on how long these steps take and how the hydrometer samples taste will determine how I proceed. I am planning on a 2-3 week primary fermentation , cold crash for 3 days @ 32 F, transfer and filter (1 micron) to serving kegs, lager for 2-3 weeks @ 32F, and serve.
Any advice would be appreciated. I have never had to brew a lager on a timeline before.

maximus said:

Thanks for the replies and wortmonger thanks for starting this great thread, tons of great information here. I still have not managed to read it all. After 36 hours I am seeing pressure build up in the system. Just needed a little more patience on my side. I will let you know how the batch turns out in the end.
I need a relatively quick turn around for this batch (6 weeks) and here is my current plan. Ferment @ 50F with 5-7 psi until gravity is down to around 1.020. Increase temperature to 60F (diacetyl rest) over two days and bump pressure up to 20 psi (highest my spunding valve allows). Leave @ 60F until fermentation is complete. Slowly cool back to 50 F over two days. Depending on how long these steps take and how the hydrometer samples taste will determine how I proceed. I am planning on a 2-3 week primary fermentation , cold crash for 3 days @ 32 F, transfer and filter (1 micron) to serving kegs, lager for 2-3 weeks @ 32F, and serve.
Any advice would be appreciated. I have never had to brew a lager on a timeline before.

Click to expand...

You are very welcome! Your ferment sounds fine and very sound. The only thing I think you might reconsider is the drop back down to 50*F after you think fermentation is complete. Instead, I would go ahead and slowly start lowering your temperature every day from 60-32*F. Lager your beer at this point on all that yeast if you want to, or transfer once down that cool and then lager your 2-3 weeks or longer if you can. I wish you had a refractometer since you will have really gassy samples that need to sit for awhile before they read right. I bet you get to 1.020 in the next couple of days and can go ahead and ramp up to 60*F for the D-rest, but that is completely up to the yeast of course. When you take your samples be sure and taste them... you may not need a D-rest at all and that would shave some time off your regiment.

Maximus, welcome to the pressure crew! My Helles took a full two 1/2 days before I saw pressure on my gauge at 48 degrees when I pitched my starter. MY OG was higher at 1.064 and I fermented it at 48 degrees for about two weeks at 48 degrees, and then lowered my temp down to 33 degrees and lagered for an additional 2-3 weeks. I never did a D rest because I never tasted it during the fermentation.

Unless you pre set your spunding valve in advance of fermentation keep an eye on it. Mine was set higher than planned and it ramped up very quickly.

You're going to have a fantastic beer on tap soon!

what yeast strains are you guys using? i would imagine that alot of this process is strain-dependent. if i used kolsh or cali-lager yeast, could i just do this at 65F?

i've used chico ale, pacman, bavarian lager, american lager, pilsner lager. I ferment in a temp controlled freezer and did them all at 48-50 degrees.

Matthew

Agreed. I do Kolsch quite a bit at 64.