SankePankey
Well-Known Member
Please post what you come up with. Interested.
Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!
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Please post what you come up with. Interested.
OP
OP
I don't know what happened with my hop tea. Maybe I used too little to be noticeable. 2oz in a 15 gallon batch? Does it sound like too little? I did exactly as Gerard said, only I didn't put the hop solids in, as he said they add it directly after making the tea and wasn't specific if it was tea only... I only assumed it would be tea (only being tea mentioned)???
As for cmuench, that sucks man!!! I had no problems getting those round tea balls into my Sanke opening, but my problem was 1oz of hops in each one swelled up larger than the ball could handle. So, I guess I did try dry hopping once before and just forgot because I gave up due to difficulties. I would never try pellets directly in the Sanke... ever! Hop sack(s) would never be tried by me either, do to the potential problems you mentioned cmuench about retrieving them later.
Looks like I am going to revisit my filter idea and pump, since if done with pellets/whole/plugs it would need to be in the beer for a period of time. I'm thinking hooked up post transfer to the serving keg. How much solids would one be looking at in the serving keg if done like I am thinking?
As for cmuench, that sucks man!!! I had no problems getting those round tea balls into my Sanke opening, but my problem was 1oz of hops in each one swelled up larger than the ball could handle. So, I guess I did try dry hopping once before and just forgot because I gave up due to difficulties. I would never try pellets directly in the Sanke... ever! Hop sack(s) would never be tried by me either, do to the potential problems you mentioned cmuench about retrieving them later.
Looks like I am going to revisit my filter idea and pump, since if done with pellets/whole/plugs it would need to be in the beer for a period of time. I'm thinking hooked up post transfer to the serving keg. How much solids would one be looking at in the serving keg if done like I am thinking?
cmuench
Well-Known Member
Duh. I knew this was a bad idea. Oh well, brew and learn. The beer we were able to save is fantastic!
Remind me what this is about.
OP
OP
The filter and pump idea was about rigging a filter housing up in such a way it could hold the hops like a Randall. Then I would hook it up to the pump and back to the keg. I could then put the pump on a timer and filter the beer through the hops for a time so I could keep the system closed and still get dry hopping done before or after the beer was transferred to the secondary/serving keg. I figure after, since the filter would probably also filter and/or stir up the yeast if it were in primary. If done in the secondary/serving keg I feel it would be a cleaner type of setup. I know dry hopped beers usually have more of a haze to them from the hop debris. So, possibly after dry hopping is achieved you could rig the filter with a cartridge to actually filter during the pumping. Not sure how long it would take to exchange all the "then dry hopped" beer through the filter to make it as clean and sediment/debris free as possible.
I just think it would work to maintain the closed part of the process and maintain a true dry hop with out using teas or other methods like hop bags that have to be removed. Sankes would be really hard to get swollen hop bags out of.
I just think it would work to maintain the closed part of the process and maintain a true dry hop with out using teas or other methods like hop bags that have to be removed. Sankes would be really hard to get swollen hop bags out of.
dstar26t
If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing
Derrin took a 2" Tri clover x 1/2" MPT fitting and welded in a thermowell. I put a T-port 3-way valve on it with a compression tube fitting on the top and a 1" tri clover on the side to attach my old spunding valve assembly to. Works great so far, got a Munich Dunkel fermenting now.
I chilled the Dunkel from boiling to 44F (cfc) and let it sit for 6 hours to let the cold break settle and compact. Then tried racking the cold break out from under the wort with the racking tube inserted all the way to the bottom. About 1 cup of cold break came out and then it ran clear. I'm sure there's much more left so I don't think that procedure was very successful. Maybe if I waited and racked again, more would come out but I wanted to get the yeast in there.
SankePankey
Well-Known Member
Thats some purdy stuff dstar.
1) So, your gauge and valve don't get gunky with this setup or do you wait until after high krauesen?
2) Care to share the McMaster part #s (guessing here, where ever) for stuff (important stuff like o-rings, compression fittings, not pipe fittings, etc.) so I can make one?
3) So, with the T-port valve, you are leaving it open the whole time? I'm not really getting why you didn't just do a pipe tee. Or maybe you pull out the dip tube until you are just past the valve, then shut the valve before then removing the dip tube? I'm not sure why this confuses me.
4) Channeling in the fermenter- Yeah.. even with my bottom dump, I can't harvest all the cake until the beer is racked. I waste too much beer into my harvesting vessel. I mean, I guess I could crash and do it 6 or 7 times over the course of a couple days, but just waiting till racking, swishing around, and then harvesting is much easier. When I did it once like I just described, the bits of trub that were in my 1/2 barb fittings settled back into it and clogged it anyways and prevented me harvesting, so I won't do it like that again. This is where having an actual conical might help (I call mine a dome-ical).
1) So, your gauge and valve don't get gunky with this setup or do you wait until after high krauesen?
2) Care to share the McMaster part #s (guessing here, where ever) for stuff (important stuff like o-rings, compression fittings, not pipe fittings, etc.) so I can make one?
3) So, with the T-port valve, you are leaving it open the whole time? I'm not really getting why you didn't just do a pipe tee. Or maybe you pull out the dip tube until you are just past the valve, then shut the valve before then removing the dip tube? I'm not sure why this confuses me.
4) Channeling in the fermenter- Yeah.. even with my bottom dump, I can't harvest all the cake until the beer is racked. I waste too much beer into my harvesting vessel. I mean, I guess I could crash and do it 6 or 7 times over the course of a couple days, but just waiting till racking, swishing around, and then harvesting is much easier. When I did it once like I just described, the bits of trub that were in my 1/2 barb fittings settled back into it and clogged it anyways and prevented me harvesting, so I won't do it like that again. This is where having an actual conical might help (I call mine a dome-ical).
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dstar26t
If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing
Thanks
This is the second time I've used the spunding set-up. It stays on the whole ferment, should I expect it to get gunky? It was fine after the first round.
I'll make a post with the part numbers
The racking tube is only inserted when it's time to rack. Otherwise, I'd need a closed valve on the end of the racking tube the whole time to keep beer/CO2 from gushing out. The 3-way valve will be positioned to only let CO2 out of the keg into the spunding valve during the ferment and I put a piece of sanitized foil over the compression fitting so nothing settles inside on top of the valve's ball. When it's time to transfer, I put a valve on the racking tube, compression nut and o-ring on the other end, insert it into the closed 3-way valve, tightened the compression fitting and open the (3-way) valve. The racking tube then gets purged with head space CO2, tubing attached to the receiving keg and then racking tube inserted into the beer to counter pressure transfer.
Yeah, the only way to get the cold break out would be to transfer the wort off of it into another keg. I'm planning on doing that next time to keep the break out of the yeast for harvesting purposes.
This is the second time I've used the spunding set-up. It stays on the whole ferment, should I expect it to get gunky? It was fine after the first round.
I'll make a post with the part numbers
The racking tube is only inserted when it's time to rack. Otherwise, I'd need a closed valve on the end of the racking tube the whole time to keep beer/CO2 from gushing out. The 3-way valve will be positioned to only let CO2 out of the keg into the spunding valve during the ferment and I put a piece of sanitized foil over the compression fitting so nothing settles inside on top of the valve's ball. When it's time to transfer, I put a valve on the racking tube, compression nut and o-ring on the other end, insert it into the closed 3-way valve, tightened the compression fitting and open the (3-way) valve. The racking tube then gets purged with head space CO2, tubing attached to the receiving keg and then racking tube inserted into the beer to counter pressure transfer.
Yeah, the only way to get the cold break out would be to transfer the wort off of it into another keg. I'm planning on doing that next time to keep the break out of the yeast for harvesting purposes.
SankePankey
Well-Known Member
Since I use a blow-off/cropping vessel, I push the limits of final volume in a 15.5 gal vessel. Last time I brewed, I put about 14.5 gals into the keg until the foam was about to come out. Then I put .5 gal in my starter vessel to wake up yeast, and then about 1/2 hr later (after the foam had subsided) I pushed the slurry into the primary w/ CO2 (at which point the vessel becomes the harvester.... ahhh circle of life....
)So, I'm doing about 14.75 gals in a 15.5 gal vessel. If I did it like you, I'm sure I'd have to tone it down. You're probably doing more like 12-13 gals max? My blow-off tube sees a lot of gunk. I get about a quart of beer after primary in the vessel (and some top crop yeast, but not enough yet to mention).
For racking, my routine is to counter-pressure fill 3 cornies at the same time which I described on page one thousand forty six of this thread.
Harvest afterwards.Thanks for the explanation. So, I'm guessing then after you insert the racking tube and opened the T-valve, you can loosen the compression fitting just enough so you can push the cane down to the bottom and not loose any pressure? Think I got it now.
You should shoot a video!
dstar26t
If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing
Yes, that's how it works. I have to make sure to have the oring wet with sanitizer so the tube can slide through it.
I ferment ~11.5 gallons since I also boil in a keg and do 90 minute boils (2.1 gallons boil off, .5 gallons left after transfer). Boiling 14.1 gallons in a keggle is as far as I want to push it!
dstar26t
If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing
The 3-way valve is from directmaterial.com via ebay. Their part number is VBS3T-050. Make sure to get the T-port, not the L-port.
This is Derrin's link for the 2" TC x 1/2" MPT + thermowell
The compression tube fitting on the 3-way valve is McMaster #8239K25
The o-ring I use in the compression fitting is McMaster #5233T52
Coming off the other port of the 3-way valve is:
-1/1.5" TC x 1/2" MPT
-1" silicone gasket
-1"/1.5" clamp
-1"/1.5" TC x 1/4" FPT (this is getting swapped out for a 1/4" MPT from st.pats to thread directly into the cross)
^These 4 parts were from brewers hardware
Then there's:
-1/4" NPT cross (McMaster #4464K312)
-1/4" NPT x 2.5" face, 0-60 psi gauge from directmaterial via ebay (PB254L-060) They also have an all SS one that I was unaware of before ordering (PS254L-060).
-1/4" NPT Male x Female 90º Elbow (McMaster #4464K36)
-1/4" NPT valve from directmaterial via ebay (VBSM2-025)
-1/4" NPT x 3/8" ID tube barbed adapter (McMaster #5670K85)
-1/4" NPT x 1/8" NPT Hex Nipple (McMaster #48805K86)
-Back Pressure Relief Valve (McMaster #99045K46)
cmuench
Well-Known Member
Since I use a blow-off/cropping vessel, I push the limits of final volume in a 15.5 gal vessel. Last time I brewed, I put about 14.5 gals into the keg until the foam was about to come out. Then I put .5 gal in my starter vessel to wake up yeast, and then about 1/2 hr later (after the foam had subsided) I pushed the slurry into the primary w/ CO2 (at which point the vessel becomes the harvester.... ahhh circle of life....
So, I'm doing about 14.75 gals in a 15.5 gal vessel. If I did it like you, I'm sure I'd have to tone it down. You're probably doing more like 12-13 gals max? My blow-off tube sees a lot of gunk. I get about a quart of beer after primary in the vessel (and some top crop yeast, but not enough yet to mention).
For racking, my routine is to counter-pressure fill 3 cornies at the same time which I described on page one thousand forty six of this thread.
Thanks for the explanation. So, I'm guessing then after you insert the racking tube and opened the T-valve, you can loosen the compression fitting just enough so you can push the cane down to the bottom and not loose any pressure? Think I got it now.
You should shoot a video!
I've been doing 15 gal in a sankey with a blow off for 24-48 hours. I agree, I get a ton of krausen out of the tube even using fermcap S.
I would love to see a video as well if possible.
OP
OP
I keep hoping I get krausen in spades once I set up my cropper. I can only imagine how much I will get in viable and clean yeast this way. I figure I can collect and throw away the first part with the braun and then collect creamy stuff after that point. 15+ gallons should get me the volume needed to really push the stuff out at lower pressures I plan on using from now on out for the initial primary stage.
SankePankey
Well-Known Member
I was hoping to get more than I am so far. In about a quart of blow-off, I got maybe a fluid ounce (crashed) of pretty white top crop yeast. I'm going to play around with gas dip tube lengths so I can get right down to just above the beer level.
pola0502ds
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Does anyone see a problem fermenting in a 15 gallon sanke keg that has a few dents in the sides? To me, stainless is stainless and it shouldn't effect the fermentation but just make it harder to clean. But Thats why i am asking, i don't know if there is something that I am missing.
klyph
Well-Known Member
All my sanke fermenters have dents in them.
pola0502ds
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This keg I picked up for $20 bucks has some rather large dents. Maybe a 4" dia dent pushed in 1"
Friday i am taking a drive to purchase 3, almost new kegs for $170. Is that a good deal?
Friday i am taking a drive to purchase 3, almost new kegs for $170. Is that a good deal?
klyph
Well-Known Member
Depends what you mean by almost new. I'd have to look at them to see how new they were, but I payed $30 for a keg with very minor dents and scratches and works just as well as a pristine polished keg.
OP
OP
I chose the finest bottom skirt and dome for my fermentor. It has a huge dent in the side. Since then, I don't care so much anymore. They all work for me, and I keep it swapped up unless using the cake again. The more you use them the yuckier they get .
.pola0502ds
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I chose the finest bottom skirt and dome for my fermentor. It has a huge dent in the side. Since then, I don't care so much anymore. They all work for me, and I keep it swapped up unless using the cake again. The more you use them the yuckier they get
I'm not following you, was your comment directed to someone else?
OP
OP
It was in response to you. You ask if a dented keg was a problem so I answered. I use all my kegs as fermentors, and they all work great.
I am pressure fermenting an APA that ended up at 1.062 vs 1.054 target on a slurry repitch of Pacman yeast. I kept the internal temp at 63deg and no more than 5psi for the first week. I then ramped slowly over the second week to 15psi and have maintained at 62-64 deg ferm. Late last week I was at 1.022 and this morning I'm at 1.02. I let the keg ramp up to 68 deg because I am concerned about the yet still high FG. Now granted it hasn't been a month yet but I'm curious in a couple factors. 1) effect of high psi on attenuation. 2) effect if temperature, and 3) potential slurry rep itch issues with pacman.
The grain bill for 10 gallon was 20lb rahr 2 row, 2 lb Vienna, 2 lb crystal 60. Presided FG should be around 1.012-1.014.
Has anyone here experienced higher FG's due to similar variables?
Flananuts
The grain bill for 10 gallon was 20lb rahr 2 row, 2 lb Vienna, 2 lb crystal 60. Presided FG should be around 1.012-1.014.
Has anyone here experienced higher FG's due to similar variables?
Flananuts
cmuench
Well-Known Member
Have you been shaking the crap out of the keg??
I did shake it up quite a bit last week. I will give it a good shake this morning. The other variable I didn't add is mashed at 151-152 on the nose.
lamarguy
Well-Known Member
FWIW, I used Pacman yeast about a year ago and wasn't impressed. I pitched a sufficient amount @ 62F and had difficulty reaching FG. After a week at 72F, the gravity had improved but was still a few points above where it should've been.
My recommendation - ferment Pacman at 65+F or use Denny's Favorite 50 if you're looking for a similar yeast profile without the fuss.
Thanks, I shook it up once more, and used a heat lamp to raise the ferm chamber to 69 degrees(internal read via thermowell) and will check in a couple more days. Funny thing is the slurry I used for this beer attenuated down to the proper FG. Two other differences were I was using a canadian 2 row malt before and this beer the base malt was rahr 2 row base malt.
I just started my starter for a springtime maibock that I'm excited to brew.
I just started my starter for a springtime maibock that I'm excited to brew.
I'd really like to brew up a Green Flash clone Memorial day weekend. But has anyone solved how to dry hop when you're fermenting in sankes?
I sometimes dry hop in the serving keg (corny), but this one requires about 5+ ounces for dry hopping and my tea balls can't hold that much. I also left all my dry hops in until the kegs kicked last time and felt was not optimal.
Anyone have a good system? If not, my best solution is likely to jbweld a hook onto a corny lid and try to hang some hop bags from them so I can retrieve them later.
How are you guys making iPas when fermenting in. Sanke?
I sometimes dry hop in the serving keg (corny), but this one requires about 5+ ounces for dry hopping and my tea balls can't hold that much. I also left all my dry hops in until the kegs kicked last time and felt was not optimal.
Anyone have a good system? If not, my best solution is likely to jbweld a hook onto a corny lid and try to hang some hop bags from them so I can retrieve them later.
How are you guys making iPas when fermenting in. Sanke?
Bokonon
Well-Known Member
When I ferment in sanke kegs I throw pellets right in. If I am using leaf I put them in a bag and dry hop in my serving kegs. For my IPA and IIPA I usually figure my hop bill so I do half as pellets in the sanke and the other half as leaf in the serving kegs
when I dry hopped, I did the same. I did however keep my psi around 5psi so when it was time to open up the fermentor it didn't take much. I then also purged the kettle back to my desired pressure using co2. When you crash the beer, it will all drop out.
So as long as I cold crash before retransferring to serving keg I can toss five ounces of hops in there? No problems with clogging the sanke dip tube? (I trimmed mine). No problems cleaning hop sludge from inside a sanke?
Great news! Green flash here I come!
Great news! Green flash here I come!
OP
OP
So, you guys have put pellets directly into the Sankes??? I am using a filter for my transfers (counter-pressure), and could easily add hops during the last remaining gravity points to dry hop and still have my carbonation end up right. So long as my dip tube/assembly doesn't get clogged I wouldn't worry about the filter so much. Tell me more about Sanke dry hopping, as tea balls didn't work for me and hop tea ended in a bust as well.
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