My First Brett Saison

TANSTAAFB said:

I have done similar brews and it is one of my favorite beers. It will continue to change in the bottle for a very long time-I just drank the last bottle of the first one I brewed about 1.5 years ago and it was amazing! Tart, dry, floral, vinous...I really wish I hadn't consumed so many when it was young and funky vs. aged and mellowed! I usually split the batch so I can taste the identical beer brewed with & w/o the Brett as it ages and changes over time. To be fair, the straight 3724 brews don't really come into their own for several months. Can't wait to hear how this turns out. And awesome pellicle! I saw it on the pellicle thread first, very cool to read the story behind it!

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Thanks TANSTAAFB! Hearing about your beer makes me more excited for mine! I'll post some updates as it ages.

Here's a photo of the four 3 gallon better bottles. The two centennial halves, which fully attenuated with 3724 before reracking (gravity around 1.007 and pitching the brett strains, are dark and clear. The two orange-ish, cloudy halves are the citra saison. The gravity was around 1.020 (I'm not near my notes) when I reracked and added brett. The centennial batch was orange too at rerack but has cleared. I'm really interested to see where this goes. Both centennial halves now have pellicles while the citra halves are forming new krausens.

3 Month Update: The gravity has dropped in each portion to around 1.004. To my surprise, each portion tastes very close to what it did when I reracked and added the brett strains. A few have slight funk notes but that's about it. My aging temps were steady at 65 degrees. I'm going to let them ride another three months and take a gravity reading. Regardless, they taste great but some brett funk would make them over the top good!

give it time. three months is a good indication of when to first taste it, but the funk will only increase with time. in my experience (though, of course, it depends on the strains used), brett/sacc mixed fermentations start getting fruity by 3-4 months and only start to develop the horsey phenolic funk after 8-10+ months.

I was about to start a thread on my own Brett Saison, but seen this hope its ok if I ask a few questions myself.

Ive been looking at a ton of different recipes online this kinda my take on what I have seen.

This is the recipe ive come up with....

9 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 66.7 %
2 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 14.8 %
1 lbs Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 7.4 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 3.7 %
1 lbs Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 5 7.4 %
0.75 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 19.3 IBUs
0.75 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 11.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs

1.0 pkg Belgian Saison (Wyeast Labs #3724) [124.21 ml]
1.0 pkg Brettanomyces Claussenii (White Labs #WLP645)

Debating on no starter or small starter for Saison yeast.... Ive read so many conflicting things on that.

Will this recipe give me decent results?
Thanks for whatever input I get.

Cadrian said:

I was about to start a thread on my own Brett Saison, but seen this hope its ok if I ask a few questions myself.

Ive been looking at a ton of different recipes online this kinda my take on what I have seen.

This is the recipe ive come up with....

9 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 66.7 %
2 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 14.8 %
1 lbs Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 7.4 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 3.7 %
1 lbs Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 5 7.4 %
0.75 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 19.3 IBUs
0.75 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 11.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs

1.0 pkg Belgian Saison (Wyeast Labs #3724) [124.21 ml]
1.0 pkg Brettanomyces Claussenii (White Labs #WLP645)

Debating on no starter or small starter for Saison yeast.... Ive read so many conflicting things on that.

Will this recipe give me decent results?
Thanks for whatever input I get.

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I would definitely do a starter. 3724 will most likely crap out at 1.020 anyway. You can focus on temp over pitch rate for flavor profile. And that way you won't end up with any off flavors from stressed out yeast.

tagz said:

I would definitely do a starter. 3724 will most likely crap out at 1.020 anyway. You can focus on temp over pitch rate for flavor profile. And that way you won't end up with any off flavors from stressed out yeast.

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K will do, ill Just make a normal one liter starter per beersmith.

I think I am going to take the Oats out of recipe, I really dont like what they add to beer, I was worried about body, but decided saisons really dont have much body anyway. Hopefully the Wheat proteins will add the little bit of body I am hoping for.

cadrian, in general, i think this recipe looks good. i've used amarillo in a brett saison before and it came out nicely. from the looks of it, if this is in fact for a five gallon batch, it seems you're going for a relatively high abv. if it were me, i'd scale back on the grist. too much alcohol flavor, imo, clashes with the yeast. i like my brett saisons best when they're between 4.5 and 6%.also, as many have pointed out here in the past clear candi sugar doesn't add any different flavor than regular cane sugar, which is much cheaper. nevertheless, if it were me, i'd probably drop the sugar all together.

i agree with keeping it below 6%. my last saison was over 7%, and it was frankly too big. saisons are very dry (or should be) so there is little maltiness for the alcohol to hide behind.

i like a little sugar in my saison to further drive that dryness. use the clear candi if you want, but it's flavorless. you can save a few bucks and just use regular white sugar.

K thanks for the feed back....

8 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 66.7 %
2 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 14.8 %
1 lbs Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 7.4 %
1 lbs Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 5 7.4 %
0.50 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 14 IBUs
0.75 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 12.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 0.0 IBUs

1.0 pkg Belgian Saison (Wyeast Labs #3724) [124.21 ml]
1.0 pkg Brettanomyces Claussenii (White Labs #WLP645)

Cut the Pilsner back by a pound, and took out .25 of the Amarillo at 60mins. I like higher gravity beers so I tend to go higher when I shouldn't in most cases. Its a 5.50 gallon batch just for note. I am at a total of 26.6 IBU and 6.6 ABV.... I bet ill hit closer to 6.5 or little lower than 6.6.

All the brett Saisons Ive had have been pretty big beers, which seems out of the norm for the style but I liked them, kinda what inspired this brew day I am planning. Really don't like Saisons to much, but love all ive tried that had Brett in the fermentor with it. Ill be brewing this next Friday (good Friday) Probably be ordering the ingredients tonight sometime.

Also I have never worked with Pilsner malt... Seems most things I read says boil pilsner for 90mins to drive off DMS, do most in this thread agree? I figure it wouldn't hurt.

Thanks for the Input, really appreciate it.

i have always boiled anything with pils for 90 minutes or more - and have never had DMS issues.

on the other hand i've never boiled less than 90, so i have no experience with whether that causes a problem or not. based on everything i've read, why risk it?

sweetcell said:

i have always boiled anything with pils for 90 minutes or more - and have never had DMS issues.

on the other hand i've never boiled less than 90, so i have no experience with whether that causes a problem or not. based on everything i've read, why risk it?

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I'm in the same boat. I've heard that pilsner malt has been modified so you don't have to boil for 90 minutes. I use pilsner malt as the base for most of my beers and always boil for 90 minutes. Like sweetcell said, why risk it?

So my beer was brewed 31 days ago.... All Amarillo as planned. As I went to put the airlock on I was drinking the last of a bottle of Saison De Lente by the Bruery and was really enjoying it. So I decided to just pour the last little bit of Dregs in there as well just cause I could. (Research says it brett B) So it was Dregs, the 3724 (1.9L starter) with a vial of brett c.

Ended up putting the bathroom over night at about 90 degrees (put a heater in there with thermostat in there with it) It was bubbling with in the hour, I ended up having to go out of town all the next week but the girlfriend keeps the house above 80 and kept me in constant updates all week, so it fermented for about a week before I lost Krausen.

At first the airlock smelled fruity and delicious now as fermentation has started to come to a stand still at 31 days it has what best can be describe as funk has started to come out of airlock and smells so good.

Saison to the left and DIPA I was dry hopping to right.


I was thinking of checking gravity at 10 weeks in hopes its at a level I could bottle but I might wait 12 weeks.... Whats the consensus on that? I was hoping for at least 1.004 ending gravity to bottle.

I thinking of dry hopping with Galaxy instead of all amarillo.... How do you think that will pair? I want it be tropical and a little funky

Also debating on whether the 2lbs of munich was to much, and how that will show in the beer in the end.

The ending gravity turned out to be 14 brix (1.0568 SG) Boiled 90mins

I checked the gravity and tasted mine at 12 weeks. They were all around 1.004 but with little to no funk. I'm going to check again in June at 6 months and probably bottle regardless.

I just dry hopped a Brett Saison with 2oz Amarillo before packaging. In your situation Galaxy sounds like a great idea. I'd go 2+oz especially if you're bottling.

Thanks... Ill be dry hopping with at least 2 oz of galaxy just put in my online order.... may add another ounce of Amarillo but worried that may be to much and over power everything else.

The plan is to hopefully bottle at 12 weeks if the FG is at 1.004 or less. Only bad thing is I am bottle conditioning.

Started a thread but got no reply so hoping to get some help here as similar topic. 10 gal batch of saison 1.051 OG fermented to 1.007 in one week with 3711. Added Brett Trois 644 after dumping trube (conical) and just over 100 oz of pear nectar. At 1.001 after 2 days but could also be due to added volume. My main concern has to do with bottle carbing. I have read many recommend long bulk conditioning but since I am using a conical, need to get it free so I can brew more. My plan was to wait 3 weeks after introducing the pear & Brett then prime with honey & bottle. I know it can be done since some dose with Brett. Unsure how to best proceed. I am very nervous about creating bombs. Any tips? PLEASE

Also, I have proper belgian bottles, corks, hoods.

I was going to take a Gravity reading this week on my brett saison considering its been 8 weeks but just a 4 days ago or so, the beer has basically formed another krausen. Any input on that?

Cadrian said:

I was going to take a Gravity reading this week on my brett saison considering its been 8 weeks but just a 4 days ago or so, the beer has basically formed another krausen. Any input on that?

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Are you sure is a krausen and not a pellicile?

beergolf said:

Are you sure is a krausen and not a pellicile?

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I was thinking the same thing. I've had Brett create a pellicle/krausen 7 days after adding fresh wort. It looked like a pellicle, but it completely subsided in 3-4 days.

Here is what it looked like: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaG4gAlV87c[/ame]

I decided to take a sample today for gravity check. It seems it was only a big build up of c02 was definity not a pecille. It went down soon as theif went in.

Gravity was only 1.010, how long should I wait to take another reading?

It tasted amazing... aroma of pineapple and slight hay. Tasted like grapefruit pineapple juice for the most part. Really want to get it in a bottle and get to share it.

I would wait at least until they're three months old, if not six. My brett saisons are all at 6 months now and I actually just dry hopped them and will bottle next week. All four 2.5 gallon batches are between 1.004 and 1.006. That's what they were at 3 months as well as now at 6 months. You're using two strains of yeast that attenuate very well. You should get closer to 1.004 before you start thinking about bottling, imo.

Ya I am definitely waiting till I am at 1.004, Guess ill check it again at 4 months and see where its at, this was the first check at 10 weeks.

I'm now drinking my brett saisons - 2 halves of an all citra hop saison, 1 with brett brux in the secondary and the other with brett lamb. I brewed the same batch with centennial, split, and added the same strains of brett. Each were fermented in the primary with 3724. I reracked and added the brett strains in December, so these beers are all over 7 months old.

First, they taste amazing! All four halves are dry, crisp, and demonstrate the flavor profiles well of the hops I used, both in the boil and dry. However, the brett funk is still nonexistent. I should note that these were two of the last extract beers I brewed - not that it possibly made a difference. So my question is why no funk? Is 7 months in a secondary carboy with brettanomyces not long enough? I'm hoping someone like SweetCell might be able to help me figure this out. We know that brettanomyces when used as the secondary yeast strain can eat pretty much anything, including the byproducts of saccharomyces. Knowing this, I transferred a bit of the yeast cake when I reacked to the secondary vessels. One batch when I reracked had a gravity of 1.021 and the other 1.007. Both batches were fermented around 75 degrees.

The good news is I have some really good saisons on my hands. The drawback (if there is one) is that the flavor isn't exactly what I was shooting for. My guess is the brett funk will appear but it might take more time in the bottle. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks.

One initial possibility is that the Brett has contributed a decent amount, but that the hop character is covering up anything that is distinctly noticeable as Brett. Fruity characteristics could all just be blending together.

Otherwise, in terms of funk, Brett will generally act fast once it's under pressure. I haven't read through the whole thread, but are these bottled or in kegs now? Also, what's the final gravity? If in bottles, the Brett should develop faster now based on my experience and what I've heard from Chad Y and Gabe at Anchorage.




Blog: spontaneousfunk.blogspot.com

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brewers make wort, yeast make beer. according to this line of thinking, this is the beer the yeast decided to make... we only have so much control over it.

to be a little less esoteric, perhaps your saison just didn't have the building blocks for brett to take off and do their thing. 3711 isn't the most exciting saison yeast, maybe it didn't produce enough by-products for the brett to transform (RE: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/understanding-brett-flavors-298943/)

Thorpe429 said:

One initial possibility is that the Brett has contributed a decent amount, but that the hop character is covering up anything that is distinctly noticeable as Brett. Fruity characteristics could all just be blending together.

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not a bad theory.

Thorpe429 said:

Otherwise, in terms of funk, Brett will generally act fast once it's under pressure. I haven't read through the whole thread, but are these bottled or in kegs now? Also, what's the final gravity? If in bottles, the Brett should develop faster now based on my experience and what I've heard from Chad Y and Gabe at Anchorage.

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right, but i believe the "works faster" observation is when the brett is added at bottling (i.e. first introduced to the beer). in this beer's case, the brett has had plenty of time in secondary to do its thing... and it hasn't (or it has done it, and it isn't what the brewer wanted). maybe pressure will change things, but i suspect that the brett has already done whatever it is that it will do.

sweetcell said:

right, but i believe the "works faster" observation is when the brett is added at bottling (i.e. first introduced to the beer). in this beer's case, the brett has had plenty of time in secondary to do its thing... and it hasn't (or it has done it, and it isn't what the brewer wanted). maybe pressure will change things, but i suspect that the brett has already done whatever it is that it will do.

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I haven't really thought/read about whether it's for the first time at bottling or just the pressure at any time, but I've experienced it changing plenty more in the bottle after being in primary.

I typically primary with saison yeast and Brett, and tend to see plenty of additional Brett character development after bottling although, to be fair, I'm generally bottling much sooner than is the case here. Although, since Brett changes beer for years, I would think that it could still potentially change faster under pressure than it would sitting in a carboy for additional months. No?

Thanks for the thoughts. The final gravity was around 1.005. I used 3724 not 3711. I'm not sure if that would make a difference. I did transfer some of the yeast cake in hopes that the Brett could eat what was in there. Maybe now that the beer is bottled the Brett character will come out more? Regardless these are incredibly dry, clear and crisp saisons which is what I like.

If it finished at 1.005 and that's where you bottled, the Brett will continue to do work. The question is how much and whether the current character of the beer will cover up any additional Brett character.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you bottled at 1.005, you'll need to keep an eye on carbonation, especially if you didn't use heavy bottles. Each degree of gravity that it drops will create about half a volume of CO2, so if that drops to 1.000, you could end up with an additional 2.5 volumes of CO2 (also stated as one volume for every half degree Plato). See Kaiser's post in this thread: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=2177.0


Blog: spontaneousfunk.blogspot.com

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Thorpe429 said:

If it finished at 1.005 and that's where you bottled, the Brett will continue to do work. The question is how much and whether the current character of the beer will cover up any additional Brett character.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you bottled at 1.005, you'll need to keep an eye on carbonation, especially if you didn't use heavy bottles. Each degree of gravity that it drops will create about half a volume of CO2, so if that drops to 1.000, you could end up with an additional 2.5 volumes of CO2 (also stated as one volume for every half degree Plato). See Kaiser's post in this thread: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=2177.0


Blog: spontaneousfunk.blogspot.com

Sent from my iPhone using Home Brewing

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I didn't use heavy bottles but I don't think the gravity will drop any further. I pitched brett six month prior to bottling. At three months I checked the gravity and it was the same when I bottled. Reading up on all this beforehand, I know that doesn't mean the gravity won't drop more but I think it's less likely.

Just took a sample of my Saison.... guess I am ready to bottle. When I took sample I have a very very thin bubbly peliccle sitting on top, I assume that can be expected.

Lower than 1.000

So after 5 months.... There is enough brett floating around still for conditioning correct?

Cadrian said:

Just took a sample of my Saison.... guess I am ready to bottle. When I took sample I have a very very thin bubbly peliccle sitting on top, I assume that can be expected.

Lower than 1.000

So after 5 months.... There is enough brett floating around still for conditioning correct?

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Yes, the brett is still viable and will carb up your beer. My saison carbed in two weeks and it was over 6 months old when I bottled.