Belgian IPA Recipes

I've seen a few Belgian / IPA hybrids (and tasted a few commercial varieties) so I figured I'd try my own:
4.5 gallon batch

7 lbs Belgian Pilsner
4 lbs Belgian Pale
1 lb Crystal 40L
1 lb cane sugar
1 oz Chinook (60 min)
1 oz Cascade (15 min)
1 oz Cascade (flameout)
Wyeast Belgian Abbey II
Est. OG 1.073
Est. FG 1.017

My first All Grain BIAB attempt (Been doing partial mashes so far but I figure why not step it up). Should come out to 53IBU with a 9.4 SRM. The goal is to have a cross between a Tripel and a medium hopped Cali style IPA. I appreciate any and all comments and suggestions. Also, is there any benefit to inverting the sugar?

Thanks!

NYCBrewGuy said:

is there any benefit to inverting the sugar?

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yes, alcohol

? I don't follow. Inverting the sugar will effect the gravity? Beersmith doesn't seem to account for that...

NYCBrewGuy said:

I've seen a few Belgian / IPA hybrids (and tasted a few commercial varieties) so I figured I'd try my own:
4.5 gallon batch

7 lbs Belgian Pilsner
4 lbs Belgian Pale
1 lb Crystal 40L
1 lb cane sugar
1 oz Chinook (60 min)
1 oz Cascade (15 min)
1 oz Cascade (flameout)
Wyeast Belgian Abbey II
Est. OG 1.073
Est. FG 1.017

My first All Grain BIAB attempt (Been doing partial mashes so far but I figure why not step it up). Should come out to 53IBU with a 9.4 SRM. The goal is to have a cross between a Tripel and a medium hopped Cali style IPA. I appreciate any and all comments and suggestions. Also, is there any benefit to inverting the sugar?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

I just brewed a Belgian IPA the weekend before last. If you are looking for a cross between a Tripel and a California style IPA, I would change your grain bill. Ditch the crystal all together. You are going to want this to be dry, plus your SRM should be lower. I would add 2 pounds of sugar, personally. Also, I would go with use all Pils, instead of some belgian pale and some pils (more true to style). I have seen some people add white wheat, or a touch of biscuit, but I don't think either is entirely necessary. The flavor profile here is defined by the yeast and hops.

Another thing to note - I would mash at a lower temperature (148ish), and I would dry hop this too. Additionally, I would start out the fermentation on this at the lower end of the temperature range for the yeast and bump it up over the first few days.

Good luck!

I'd keep at least 1/2 lb of the crystal, I can't image a CA IPA without it - if you're looking for a hybrid. I'm brewing a Belgain IPA this coming weekend and it won't have any crystal, but it will have 1 lb of aromatic.

The benefit of inverting the sugar (sucrose), is then you get some glucose in there, and it has been shown that glucose promotes the formation of esters compared to other sugars, and all malt. I've been reading up on this subject as I would like to get a few more esters in my Belgian beers but I typically do not use sugar (except in really big ones). I like the cleanliness of fermenting cool, even for Belgians, and I'm hoping by adding some glucose, or invert sugar, I can get more esters without increasing my ferment temp. I don't like ester bombs - or fusel alcohols. I'm beginning to think that adding sugars is just as important for getting the right ester profile as it is for "drying out" the finish.

yes it raise gravity...table sugar is disaccharide not easily fermentable sugar inverting sugar is broken into glucose and fructose fermentable sugars...i don't know about brew smith ?

While that sugar theory is correct, in practice it really doesn't matter. Few Belgian breweries use invert sugar. I've found no benefit to inverting the sugar.

I've got one I've been working on for awhile, and this is what I've learned about this style: use a lot of white sugar, 2 lbs in a 5 gallon batch isn't excessive at all. Pils is too weak a base malt to stand up to any hops at all, I'm using half/half pils/vienna for my base malt and it's just right. Lots of late hop additions and 40 IBUs at most, you don't want bitterness, it will clash with the belgian flavor of the yeast.

Interesting. I think I'm going to leave the crystal in (want a little more IPA character than a more traditional Belgian grain bill). I'll up the sugar to maybe 2 lbs. And move the last hop addition from flameout to dry hop. Getting excited for this (almost as excited as I am to try the Mexican Hot Chocolate beer that I'm bottling this weekend!).

One more question - I'm usually too lazy to make a starter but given the SG on this will be topping 1.08 I imagine its probably necessary here, right?

Denny said:

While that sugar theory is correct, in practice it really doesn't matter. Few Belgian breweries use invert sugar. I've found no benefit to inverting the sugar.

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then what sugar do they use..?

I just happen to have the Belgian Ale book by Rajotte with me at work. Of course, this is just one source, and the copyrigtht is 1992 so things may have changed.

It says "Sucrose syrup derivatives are the most commonly used brewing sugars................glucose is now increasing". "....strong local industry for sucrose transformation" vs "....corn-derived products are quite often imported"

"Raw sugar is seldom used"

Often they use mostly purified sucrose that is still in it's liquid form

"Most brewers prefer to use invert sugar, but sucrose syrup is sometimes used."

Then in a latter paragraph is says, "Belgium brewers do use sucrose or invert sugar syrups but most still perfer candi sugar, in either solid or syrup form" The book defines candi sugar as "sugar made by the slow crystalization of a highly concentrated hot sugar solution"

There can be varying amounts of carmelization to give different colors/flavors. Then is goes on to say that "pale and dark liquid candi contain around 45% sucrose. The pale has approximately 34 to 44% invert sugar......."

I'm thinking a few details on the candi sugar are missing, as simply heating up sucrose will not get it to invert. To me it looks like they are doing a partial inversion, or are mixing some sucrose with some invert sugar.

I can definitely appreiciate that the different sugars will create different flavor profiles. Whether my palate can detect that is something else.

For part of my wife's thesis research she grew a filamentous fungus (infected with a virus) on a variety of defined medias where the only thing changed was the nitrogen source (NH4 vs N03, vs some amino acids, vs some purines, etc.). The differences in growth were quite dramatic. With some nitrogen sources, the fungus would make a really slimy secretion that made harvesting the fungus (vacuum filter) are real pain. All this from just changing the nitrogen source. Of course I have no idea how they affected the taste

A grad student in the lab is growing bacteria on a number of different defined media with different carbon sources and sees different growth rates. Again, difference yes, preciptable, don't know.

Regular beet or cane sugar is what is used....I've seen pictures of Belgian breweries with sacks of the stuff laying around. That's been confirmed both in BLAM and by people I know who have visited Belgian breweries. There are many things in the Rajotte book that many people take issue with. BLAM is a far more up to date and better researched book.

Denny said:

There are many things in the Rajotte book that many people take issue with. BLAM is a far more up to date and better researched book.

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I recently got the Rajotte book and now I'll have to go back and read BLAM again. After our brief visit to Belgium this summer I've been reading up more, and brewing more Belgian styles - including this weekend. I also need to make it to England one of these days...........

7 lbs Belgian Pilsner
4 lbs Belgian Pale
1 lb Crystal 40L
2 lb cane sugar
1 oz Chinook (60 min)
1 oz Cascade (5 min)
1 oz Cascade (flameout)
Wyeast 1762

Ended up mashing a little warmer than I intended to, about 152F. BIAB in a 6 gal. stock pot (using my oven to make sure the temp didn't drop). Was not expecting good efficiency but hoped for around 60%. Fell short of that even. Oh well, at least my calcs were right as I hit my pre-boil volume. Added 2 lbs of cane sugar to the boil with 10 mins to go.

Built a 1 quart starter using Wyeast Belgian Abbey II, decanted, and pitched at room temp. Fermenting strong with a thick krausen and plenty of airlock activity within 5 hours. We'll see how it turns out but I have high hopes. Will probably dry hop with another oz. of cascades. Will definitely post results.

Cheers
Est. OG 1.073
Est. FG 1.017

what temps are you fermenting at, and how controlled is it? just curious.

I don't really have any temp controls. Letting it go at ambient temp in my apartment which is running a little cool right now about 68-70F. Of course, with the heat from fermentation, the ferementer is probably a few degrees higher. Its the high end of the range for this yeast. I don't have the space for a fermentation fridge (I brew in a small apt.) so all my beers get done at ambient temp.

PS: I really need to get a stick on thermometer...

Hi all, reviving this post for some advice... so all you more experienced than I am (which is probably most of you) please give your 2 cents! I'm leaving town until Jan 3 so I wanted to check the gravity and maybe bottle before heading out for the holidays.

So after 17 days in primary this has gone from SG of 1.085 to 1.021... was hoping that this would be alot dryer. That said, the apparent attenuation is 76% and Wyeast 1762 is listed as having attenuation of 73-77%. There is still a lot of floating cloudy debris in this beer, so I figure there is still a lot of yeast in suspension hopefully doing some work. Or is this done?

Then I tasted the sample. I'm not one to judge a beer that is so young - still needs at least a few weeks in the bottle - but it tasted pretty bad. Has a funky, vegetal, chemical smell and taste that reminds me of really skunky warm Natty Ice (college flashbacks). I'm sure this will clean up after bottle conditioning, I hope. But wanted to take a reading from the folks who have brewed styles like this before.

Finally, I never did dry hop this one. Given the relatively high gravity, and funky taste, should I drop in an ounce or two of cascades and let it sit another couple weeks before bottling?

HELP!

Thanks

As I was interested in the different sugars I did a bit of research on each. I also didn't want to pay the price for Belgian Candy or inver sugar.

Table sugar is sucrose = bonded fructose and glucose.

Invert sugar is un-bonded fructose and glucose.

Belgian Candy is invert sugar that is heated to hard crack and left to cool so that it crystalizes. You can keep the temp below hard crack by adding water and allow it to caramelize before heating it all the way to hard crack.

How to make invert sugar:

Add equal parts table sugar and water to a heavy sauce pan along with a tsp of some kind of edible acid (I use lemon juice, can use lime juice, citric acid). Heat this up for at least 15 min.

I once forgot to add the acid and on the edge of the pan it kept getting "grainy" like table sugar once I added the acid realiing my error the consistincy changed quite a bit to a smooth syrup.

If you want Belgian Candy keep heating until it hits 300 degrees. If you want darker candy pour some water in to cool it (be very very careful it bubbles and get very upset) and keep doing this until you hit the color you want. After you bring it to 300 you can pour it into a mold, or I pour it on a cookie sheet with a silicone mat.

Taste sucrose and Belgian candy, to me the Belgian candy actually taste sweeter. This is because of the bond being broken.

Yeast must first break the bond of sucrose and then it can ferment the simple sugars of glucose and fructose. There is a lot of debate if it matters, but this is an easy process even if it sounds confusing, so why not give your yeast a head start?

ericd said:

Pils is too weak a base malt to stand up to any hops at all,

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Really? tell that to Achouffe
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rugman said:

then what sugar do they use..?

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The belgian's use simple beet sugar or syrups depending on the brewery
http://www.belgosuc.be/EN/productgamma.asp

NYCBrewGuy said:

Finally, I never did dry hop this one. Given the relatively high gravity, and funky taste, should I drop in an ounce or two of cascades and let it sit another couple weeks before bottling?

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Dry hop in the primary and give it alittle more time, but it should already be tasting good at this point.

~~~~>
A simple Belgian IPA that is always in stock at my house
houblon-chouffe

OK. Added an ounce or so of Columbus to dry=hop (wanted to use Cascade but LHBS was out). Going to let this chill out for another 10 days while I'm out of town. Then bottle and condition for a while. Will post results....

Merry Christmas to all

Well. 10 more days in primary with 1 ounce of Columbus. Just finished bottling. I did manage to get down one more gravity point and finish out at 1.019 - 77% apparent attenuation and about 8.7% ABV. Took a small taste and the flavor has improved drastically but still a little funky-off taste in their.

Bottled with cane sugar to get 2.5 volumes of CO2. I usually pop a bottle after 2 weeks to see how its going but I'm guessing this one will greatly benefit from a few extra weeks.

Looking forward to knocking back a few of these while watching the NFL playoffs!

First taste last night. Definitely could use more aging, still some rough edges to the taste. But here are my notes:

Aroma: Hops! I know this will fade as the beer matures but right now the nose is dominated by citrusy hops (thanks to the Columbus dry hop no doubt). In the back there are the normal scents of a tripel along with a slightly sour, vegetal smell. More on that in a bit...

Appearance: Pale orange/yellow. Hazy. I did this no favors for clarity and didn't expect too much since this is my first AG and BIAB. That said, I would expect clarity to improve after some cold storage. This bottle just got a few hours of chilling so I could taste. The rest are conditioning at room temp. A thin bubbly head at pour, quickly dissipated.

Flavor: Better than the samples I pulled while it was in primary or at bottling. There is an off-flavor that I don't have enough experience to identify. I can only describe it as somewhere between cooked vegetables and typical Belgian banana/clove notes. There was a good amount of Pilsner in this and I pray I didn't somehow end up with DMS (from what I've read on here it seems that is a problem often diagnosed but rarely the real issue, so hopefully I'm OK). That said, the dominant flavor here is citrusy hops. Followed by a touch of malt and a nice breadiness. If the off-flavor continues to fade as the beer matures, this should be a great beer.

Mouthfeel: Medium-high. Fizzy bubbles. Looks like a tripel when I pour it. That said, the beer seemed to lose carbonation quickly in the glass. Carbonation should improve over the next few weeks so I'm not worried. Good body - not too heavy, not too light.

Overall: I'm convinced that this will be a great beer in another month (but then, I'm biased). The off-flavors and smells that were heavy during primary ferment are probably due to complete lack of temperature controls. This definitely hit 75F or higher during the first few days vigorous fermentation. As the beer has aged, and thanks to the dry hop covering up some of the flaws, this off taste has faded to the background. I'm hoping that in another month or so it is gone. I also think that as the hops fade a bit, the yeast and malt will get a chance to show off a bit more. Overall, I'm happy and look forward to seeing this progress.

This beer has come a long way. The aggressive hops have faded a bit, carbonation has improved, phenols and esters have become much less pronounced. This beer is starting to taste like what I had envisioned and while its not exactly what I wanted (an easier drinking version of Green Flashes Le Freak!), it's not bad at all. Most importantly, more objective drinkers seem to like it so I guess I did alright for my first recipe. If and when I try this hybrid again, I will up the hops a bit, and drop the crystal malt.