New March Nano Pump

Just got my hardware today and I hope to put this through some water tests tomorrow.

Nano pump? I'm intrigued, tell me more!

http://morebeer.com/view_product/11623//March_Nano_Brewery_Pump

I got mine from my LHBS store. I will be testing it tomorrow and will post some video later in the day.

Looks remarkably like a little giant design, interesting....

I've been looking at those. Would like to hear your thoughts on them for sure.

thelorax121 said:

Looks remarkably like a little giant design, interesting....

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Or remarkably like any other march pump. That will drain those sweet 55 gallon ss drums.

_

Just did a quick test with 25 gallons and the below setup:

55 gallon drum - 1/2 copper dip tube to 1/2 ball valve
1/2 QD on the inlet of pump
1/2 QD on the a 1/2 ball valve on the pump outlet
two 6ft 1/2 silicone hoses
into second drum through 1/2 QD & 1/2 ball valve

I pumped 25 gallons in less than 4mins which is still damn good. The specs say 17gpm but I would imagine if I had 1" valves and fittings I would achieve a better gpm.

See if you can put 3/4" hose and that or larger fittings on the suction side of the pump. That will REALLY let it open up. I use it in a 2bbl system and have tried both 1/2 and 3/4. It is a dramatic difference. Actually a few times it collapsed the 1/2" silicone hose on the suction side for me. There's a dude on ebay with fairly cheap 10' lengths of 3/4" 1.25"OD silicone hose.

Yes I figured it would. However, on my 1bbl system I don't really need any more GPM. The one big thing I noticed with this pump is that it practically self-primes as long as it's below the source. It's out performs the March 809 by a long shot in that area. I think pump is by far a better value than the 809 even at twice the cost.

You need a bigger supply on the inlet unless you are restricting the outlet with a ball valve and lowering the gpm output. A 1/2" line on the inlet will in essence be starving the pump during opperation. It will work for quite some time but eventually you will find that the impeller will be diging into the front ceramic thrust washer and will start to wear on the impeller to the point of it hittng the front cover....then it will start making noise and de-couple on you.
If you take the pump apart you will see a slot across the face of the impeller where the shaft goes through the middle. Thats our wear indicator. Its normally about 3/32" deep. If its almost gone you will probably need an new impeller soon....

-Walter

When you say "quite some time" are we talking 1-2 years or 2-3 years?

Unfortunately all my fittings are 1/2" on my system so I don't think it would make much sense using a 1" hose would it?

That's great and everything, but did you really spend over $350?

I'm right at $350 for the pump and SS fittings including the tri-clover fitting and valve.

Ranger9913 said:

When you say "quite some time" are we talking 1-2 years or 2-3 years?

Unfortunately all my fittings are 1/2" on my system so I don't think it would make much sense using a 1" hose would it?

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The time frame would depend on the use of it....cant say for sure how long it would be before you would run into problems. If you only have a 1/2" port on your vessel then i would seggest maybe going to a welder and having a bigger one welded in....either that or your going to have to inspect the impeller after every use for signs of wear or maybe even drop the output size of the line to 3/8 or choke it with a valve...

-Walter

Well, I guess I'll be your guinea pig and we'll have to see how it holds up. Personally, I see it as a design flaw. The inlet size should only hinder or better the flow rate, not dramatically shorten the lifespan of internal components. I would concede the point if this pump were made for commercial/industrial applications but seeing as it's listed as a nano pump it should have been designed to functions with 1" or 1/2" fittings IMPO. I personally don't know of any 1BBL homebrewers or nanobreweries using 1" hoses.

Budzu said:

There's a dude on ebay with fairly cheap 10' lengths of 3/4" 1.25"OD silicone hose.

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Where where where!?!?!?

I have been looking for ages and found nothing to this point.

Ranger9913 said:

Personally, I see it as a design flaw. The inlet size should only hinder or better the flow rate, not dramatically shorten the lifespan of internal components.

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That would be true for any other type of pump other then a mag-drive. You have to understand that the impeller moves forward and backwards inside the pump housing on the shaft it spins on. When the pump is opperating properly the impeller is centered in the pump housing with no contact to the front or rear.....when you starve or restrict the inlet of the pump....instead if being a transfer pump it turns into a suction pump. In that case the impeller gets sucked up agaist its forward thrust washer...and depending on the amount of starvation would dictate how much wear the impeller would be exposed to.

-Walter

Randar said:

Where where where!?!?!?

I have been looking for ages and found nothing to this point.

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It was in the ebay store "windycityliquidation". They are out atm yeah. I might've lucked out.
Peroxide Cured Silicone Tubing; 3/4"ID x 1.25"OD; 10 ft

I did my first brew with this pump on Monday and I have to say I was not impressed. Throttling back the outlet with a 1/2 ball valve to 25% causes god awful noises and screaming from the pump head. I tried it few time and each time it was start to scream to basically it was useless to try and fly sparge with. Had I know before hand that a 1" in inlet was require to function properly I would have never purchased it. I did end up using it on to push my wort through a 50' CFC and I was able to do that very quickly but $300+ is a lot of money to simply use once a brew.

Walter, any idea why running at 25% output would make it squeal?

Ranger9913 said:

Walter, any idea why running at 25% output would make it squeal?

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Cavitation.

It wouldnt be cavitation if he is throttling on the outlet side. I honestly have never heard our pumps make noise when throttled back...most times its the other way around....they start MAKING noise if you dont have enough available liquid coming into the pump and quiet down when you choke them.

The 1" inlet hose is "required" to get the full rated flow out of the the pump. If you cant get a 1" inlet then you would need to choke the outlet to "balance" the pump.

If you want to send me back the pump i can run it through our torture chamber here and see whats going on.

-Walter

I'm sure you are correct, but, I've seen high capacity pumps get into a cav situation when severely choked at exit (they start to lose prime). If you don't think that's going on here, well, you know the design better than I.

GatorDad said:

I'm sure you are correct, but, I've seen high capacity pumps get into a cav situation when severely choked at exit (they start to lose prime). If you don't think that's going on here, well, you know the design better than I.

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I sure hope so unless they are paying me to sit here and sound like i know what i'm doing on the phone!

Cavitation usually occurs when liquids are subject to rapid changes in pressure...and that intern causes cavities(air pockets) to form on the low pressure side.
With a typical mag drive pump that usually only happens on the inlet side when you restrict the flow of liquid into the pump. The only other time i can think of off the top of my head with out pumps is on a few models the discharge volute's have a sharp corner as it transitions from the main pumping cavity to the outlet of the pump. You could get a low pressure zone behind the volute and get some noise. The 5B you can get to do that if you had a 1" feed line and then installed a 3/4" ID hose right over the outlet pipe....when you turn the pump on you would hear a "gravely" noise from the pump....and it would go away when you choke it down just a tad.

-Walter

All of my danner, iwaki, panworld, and reeflo magdrive pumps can be throttled down to zero on the outlet side with no issues.

StMarcos said:

All of my danner, iwaki, panworld, and reeflo magdrive pumps can be throttled down to zero on the outlet side with no issues.

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Thats the typical way of controlling the flow on a mag-drive pump.

-Walter

Ranger9913 said:

Walter, any idea why running at 25% output would make it squeal?

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Are you sure it is the pump squeling. At 25%open (I'm guesing this is with the ball valve turned 22.5 degrees?) the actual opening in the valve is very small and this is where I would be expecting the squel to be coming from, not the pump.

StMarcos said:

All of my danner, iwaki, panworld, and reeflo magdrive pumps can be throttled down to zero on the outlet side with no issues.

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I was always under the impression that you should not throttle even a magdrive to zero, they require some minimal flow. I always put it down to "lubricating" and removal of heat from the pump body.

mattd2 said:

Are you sure it is the pump squeling. At 25%open (I'm guesing this is with the ball valve turned 22.5 degrees?) the actual opening in the valve is very small and this is where I would be expecting the squel to be coming from, not the pump.


I was always under the impression that you should not throttle even a magdrive to zero, they require some minimal flow. I always put it down to "lubricating" and removal of heat from the pump body.

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The squealing ball valve you may be onto something...I didn't think of that. You could have a negative zone behind the gate of the valve as the fluid leaves... and the ball valves do have sharp edges on the curves of the setup...nice call! If you had air runing thorugh it at that moment it would probably be whistleing

As far as throttling down to zero....it depends on the pump size and the application. these small pumps you don't have to worry about...as long as there fluid in the pump it wont generate enough heat even when you are transferring wort at 212* to cause any damage if you shut it off completely. The bigger pumps we do have min flow rates for....but those are the ones that have flow rates of 50gpm+
Our biggest pump that does 210gpm we recommend a min flow rate of 15gpm to keep it happy.

-Walter

WalterAtMarchPump said:

The bigger pumps we do have min flow rates for....but those are the ones that have flow rates of 50gpm+
Our biggest pump that does 210gpm we recommend a min flow rate of 15gpm to keep it happy.

-Walter

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Thats what I have been schooled on, big industrial pumps. Working for a chemical company so all the pumps a mag drive. Only a few months ago I saw the results from dead heading a pump with PVC piping, the thing had balloned out about 3-4 times in diameter, lucky someone noticed before it burst!

StMarcos said:

All of my danner, iwaki, panworld, and reeflo magdrive pumps can be throttled down to zero on the outlet side with no issues.

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I hear ya StMarcos, i'll spout off a bit from working with well pumps since the late 60's with pumps as a family side business. I've have a few years hands on besides machining and rebuilding pumps.

JMO's, when using a larger more powerful be it a "nano brewery pump" for any and all your flow needs you'll be successful vs any underpowered gutless pump which is a disappointment read many times on this forum plus a waste of money upgrading twice. Ask yourself after first hand experience then wondering if you wasted money on a too low of HP pump beliving in the "perfect world pump spects" which they do not operate in while brewing before upgrading to a larger one from the start? Sorry I can't answer that one only you, your wallet with past experience can.
As far as Walter's replies with restricting any magetic drive pump at the outlet causing the impeller shift to the intake side causing excessive wear this is all very true vs at full flow at high volume of these pumps and their intended design.
Simple fix, more ($$$) up front for a higher flow and pressure mag pump like a "nano brew pump" to fill your flow and volume needs, higher head pressures for a strong whirlpools plus able to overcome your cooler flow restriction.
Adding a bypass loop from the pump outlet to the pump inlet (upstream far enough to allow smooth inlet fluid flow) with a pressure gauge at the pump outlet to not stall or choke the pump. Max flow will still be maintained to within the pump rated specs when needed plus avoiding excessive impeller wear as well having available high volume with pressure a desired thing when brewing.
This for the BK pushing thru what type of cooler you use as well a strong whirlpool, leave the weak 809 pump for MLT duties. End of novel.

Randar said:

Where where where!?!?!?

I have been looking for ages and found nothing to this point.

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Mcmaster.com has it not cheap but I bought some for my 50 plate chiller and 3/4" makes a difference.

WalterAtMarchPump said:

It wouldnt be cavitation if he is throttling on the outlet side. I honestly have never heard our pumps make noise when throttled back...most times its the other way around....they start MAKING noise if you dont have enough available liquid coming into the pump and quiet down when you choke them.

The 1" inlet hose is "required" to get the full rated flow out of the the pump. If you cant get a 1" inlet then you would need to choke the outlet to "balance" the pump.

If you want to send me back the pump i can run it through our torture chamber here and see whats going on.

-Walter

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I'm using mine with a 1" ball valve outlet on the boil kettle to a 3/4" tri clover barb with 3/4" hosing to the 1" inlet on the pump. You think that will be fine or do I need to have a 1" barb on the boil kettle and on the pump inlet ? Outlet, of course, has a 3/4" ball valve (5/8" ID) connected to a 1/2" barb outlet (which I assume is fine). I'm assuming I'd need to close the ball valve just a tick to compensate for the 3/4" inlet ? I'm doing 1 bbl batches. Thanks !