March 809 BR 1/100 HP - Any Good?

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KCBrewer

Fat Brad
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I found an 809 BR (not HS) for $89 shipped. They are only 1/100 HP with a max head of 4.3' and 4.5gpm. I'm guessing at these specs, the rise from just below a keggle to the top of one (maybe 30") is going to drop the flow rate quite a bit. I'm fine with it taking 5-10 minutes if that is the only downside, but 1/100HP just seems awful weak and I don't want a pump that's going to take 30 minutes to transfer 10 gallons. Anybody have experience with this pump?
 
I'm pretty sure that's the model I used to have....BR is for "brass". It worked well....the key was to get it primed. I found that with 1/2" tubing it could pump maybe a max of 5 feet....but it still worked. The flow is actually pretty good once you get it going.
 
Thanks. Yes, it has a bronze pump housing. I plan to use 1/2 ID silicon tubing, so that's good to know as well.

The 1/100 HP is what really caught my attention, and not in a good way. The HS (high speed) model that most people use are 1/25 HP, so I was curious if these are worth messing with, or a waste of time & money.
 
Well...they're all a PITA.....I'd at least look around. I think you can get an HS with a polysulphone head for not much more. Worth it IMO.
 
It looks like the high speed poly can be had for only $20 more. With nearly twice the flow rate and 3 times the max head, I think I'd be stupid not to go that route just to save a few bucks.

I'm getting down to the nitty gritty on my AG setup, but the wife is also starting to get a little miffed about my brewing obsession/expense, so I'm trying to save a nickel any way I can. I just want to get this thing done so I can get back to the actual brewing aspect of things, but at the same time have a reliable setup that I'm not constantly working on or replacing parts. It's a fine line between wasting money on cheap parts you'll just have to upgrade later, and overkill for homebrewing.

The up side is that this pump is the last higher dollar part I need. Too bad I hesitated on one for $90 on CL last week and missed it.

Thanks again for the input Steve, that's the advice I was looking for.
 
I'm in the market for one of these since I can't find any other 12V mag drive pumps. No one else I've found makes them (LG, Chugger). I wouldn't get the brass either. Don't know for sure but it doesn't sound food grade to me and I think I read they're not somewhere. You can get a Chugger stainless steel head to put on whichever pump you get for $35 and it will fit on the 809s. The poly sounds more food safe than the brass, so I'm going for that likely.
 
SankePankey said:
I'm in the market for one of these since I can't find any other 12V mag drive pumps. No one else I've found makes them (LG, Chugger). I wouldn't get the brass either. Don't know for sure but it doesn't sound food grade to me and I think I read they're not somewhere. You can get a Chugger stainless steel head to put on whichever pump you get for $35 and it will fit on the 809s. The poly sounds more food safe than the brass, so I'm going for that likely.
Click to expand...


I have to respectfully disagree. It's commonly accepted that brass is not a problem, especially if you "pickle" it per John Palmer's instructions. He is a metallurgist by trade, longtime homebrewer, and author of course. He says that the small amount of lead in brass does not pose a health risk. But he states that the lead can be removed from the surface by soaking brass in a solution of 2 parts vinegar to 1 part hydrogen peroxide for 5 minutes. For the record, I have "pickled" the brass fittings on my brew-ware.

Many of us use brass fittings and ball valves on our kettles without issue. Quite honestly, I'd rather have "pickled" brass touching my hot wort than ANY type of plastic. But, as the saying goes, to each their own.

Edit: SankePanky! Lol, love your screen name!!!
 
Oooops. In my sleep deprived typing I stated BRASS when I meant BRONZE.

Different discussion.

I did read that the bronze ones were not food grade. Not that it's against the law to use it for homebrew, but if you are buying new, then why not get the food grade one.

EDIT: Thanks! Most people don't get it. It's for yeast sex in a Sanke fermenter.
If you're looking for a nickname, I go by Mr. Spanks.
 
SankePankey said:
Oooops. In my sleep deprived typing I stated BRASS when I meant BRONZE.

Different discussion.

I did read that the bronze ones were not food grade. Not that it's against the law to use it for homebrew, but if you are buying new, then why not get the food grade one.

EDIT: Thanks! Most people don't get it. It's for yeast sex in a Sanke fermenter.
If you're looking for a nickname, I go by Mr. Spanks.
Click to expand...

Mr. Spanks. That sounds dirty too! :) I didn't tie the name to yeast sex either, but it's funny nonetheless. Even more so now that I know what you mean by it! :mug:

I think you are correct in that the only March pumps that are sold as hot wort pumps are the ones with plastic housings. They list them as such on their site. I probably worry too much, but I hate the idea of plastic. I don't even heat food in the microwave in plastic containers.

It is my opinion is that there is little difference in brass vs bronze as far as toxicity goes. It is my understanding that brass is copper + zinc and bronze is copper + tin. Or vise versa. Can't remember, it's early :) That being said, I don't think either is highly toxic, at least not in the levels we're talking about here. Actually, copper itself is toxic in large quantities. But not trace amounts of course. I remember reading something about highly acidic food cooked in copper is bad for you. Like spaghetti sauce for example.

For the record, I do have the bronze pump KCBrewer is referring to, he posted a link to this thread in another thread I commented on. I chose this particular pump based on price and the fact that I don't trust plastic no matter what the FDA says. I'd like to keep as little plastic as possible in my setup, when high temps are concerned anyway. Also high temps + time = brittle plastic. Again, I'm not saying this is correct, just my opinion.
 
Yes, I chose my enemy in brass when plastic is just as questionable. There's plenty of plastic on my rig.

Except that there is 'plastic' and there is 'Plastic', re: the polysulfonate housing of the plastic March 809 is rated well beyond 250 degrees. Regular plastics can't even go anywhere near boiling, at least on paper. I'll trust that. It's not like I'm trying to store it in plastic. Nothin' but stainless past the boil kettle.

Anyhoo, here is the 'chugger head' I mentioned. For $35, that's a pretty good deal to swap out the head from whichever pump you bought if you want. I'll probably do this, but we'll see.

http://cgi.ebay.com/STAINLESS-STEEL...aultDomain_0&hash=item4aa2d66c74#ht_500wt_928
 
SankePankey said:
Yes, I chose my enemy in brass when plastic is just as questionable. There's plenty of plastic on my rig.

Except that there is 'plastic' and there is 'Plastic', re: the polysulfonate housing of the plastic March 809 is rated well beyond 250 degrees. Regular plastics can't even go anywhere near boiling, at least on paper. I'll trust that. It's not like I'm trying to store it in plastic. Nothin' but stainless past the boil kettle.

Anyhoo, here is the 'chugger head' I mentioned. For $35, that's a pretty good deal to swap out the head from whichever pump you bought if you want. I'll probably do this, but we'll see.

http://cgi.ebay.com/STAINLESS-STEEL...aultDomain_0&hash=item4aa2d66c74#ht_500wt_928
Click to expand...

Plastic, brass, bronze... I hear ya man. Er, I'm smelling what you're steppin' in! :D

Plastic only [really] bothers me when it's heated. Or when it's made in China! Their idea of food grade is not the same as mine... Sadly, I still use buckets for primary, glass for secondary. I don't keg (yet) as it's impractical for me. My friends & family live 40-50 miles away so I can't justify kegging equipment and another fridge for 2 beers a day. Bottles travel well too. And those 3 gallon kegs (to fit my "food" fridge) are too rich for my blood. I just got a Tap-A-Draft setup though, as I have no desire to bottle 10-15 gallons of beer at once!
In all honesty, I'd have grabbed an 809 with a 'Plastic' housing if the price would have been right.

Good call on the SS pump housing BTW.
 
Hey KCBrewer, here's my test results for the pump you are referring to.

From this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/pumps-brutus-809-815-a-195488/index2.html#post2282774

DryHeave said:
Ok, the results are in.

Test 1:
I put 1-2 gallons in my kettle on the ground, hooked the pump to the ball valve via 3' of 5/8" ID hose with 5' of the same hose on the output side of the pump. It pushed right around 4.5' vertical, give or take an inch.

Test 2:
I put 2 kettles on turkey fryers and filled one to the top with water (20.5 gallons). Hooked the same hoses to the ball valves and transferred the water from one to the other. It worked flawlessly and took about 5 minutes. Pump was on the ground and the ball valves were at about 14".

Test 3:
Left one kettle with 20.5 gallons of water (on a turkey fryer) on the ground and put the other on the tailgate of my truck (on a turkey fryer) and transferred 20.5 gallons to the kettle on my tailgate. This took about 10 minutes. The last 5 gallons or so was slow taking about 1/2 of the total transfer time. The pump was on the ground, the ball valve of the higher kettle was at about 45", the top of that kettle was at about 62". I was surprised it was able to transfer the full amount actually.

Test 4:
20.5 gallons of water in the kettle, on a turkey fryer on the ground. Pump on the ground. Pumped the full amount through a 25' counterflow chiller (3/8" copper) in about 25 minutes. The configuration was kettle>pump>CFC. I have enough copper to make another CFC which I could "tee" after the pump to further reduce the cooling time.

I think this pump will do everything I need it to. Probably not the best choice for someone looking to use a pump to fill a HLT (5'+ off the ground) in a gravity (3 tier) system. I'm moving away from my 3 tier system anyway so this will work just fine for my needs.

Hope this helps!!!
Click to expand...
 
That's great, thanks for taking the time to do all of the seperate tests and post the results! :mug: That's more info than I had hoped for, and better results than I was expecting from that pump too.

I'm building a single tier using keggles, and plan to batch sparge, so my max fluid transfer at one time would be the final 10 gallons going into the fermenter, and the max head would be about 24-30". I also have a 3/8" CFC, and I don't mind that going a little slow since it allows it to cool more in one pass.

Based on your results, that pump would suit my needs. I thought I was set on the high speed model, but after seeing those results I may go ahead and use this pump for now. My end goal is a 1/2bbl-1bbl setup, and switching to using 1/2bbl sanke kegs for dispensing, so this is not my final build. It's kind of a learning setup to fine tune my brewing skills with before dropping cash on the big stuff.

Although, I'm gonna have to practice making some "64 calorie" brew that the little lady will drink, or her patience with my brewing may run out before I get to build my ultimate setup.

Thanks again for taking the time to do all of the tests. It's very helpful. :mug:
 
KCBrewer said:
That's great, thanks for taking the time to do all of the seperate tests and post the results! :mug: That's more info than I had hoped for, and better results than I was expecting from that pump too.

I'm building a single tier using keggles, and plan to batch sparge, so my max fluid transfer at one time would be the final 10 gallons going into the fermenter, and the max head would be about 24-30". I also have a 3/8" CFC, and I don't mind that going a little slow since it allows it to cool more in one pass.

Based on your results, that pump would suit my needs. I thought I was set on the high speed model, but after seeing those results I may go ahead and use this pump for now. My end goal is a 1/2bbl-1bbl setup, and switching to using 1/2bbl sanke kegs for dispensing, so this is not my final build. It's kind of a learning setup to fine tune my brewing skills with before dropping cash on the big stuff.

Although, I'm gonna have to practice making some "64 calorie" brew that the little lady will drink, or her patience with my brewing may run out before I get to build my ultimate setup.

Thanks again for taking the time to do all of the tests. It's very helpful. :mug:
Click to expand...


No problem at all, I planned on trying it out before I brew with it anyhow. Your request and interest was just motivation to document it and add tests 1 & 3 to the mix.

I think this pump is easily sufficient for a single tier 1/2bbl system. My rig is 5.5 gallons beyond a 1/2 bbl setup and [after testing] I think it will suffice.

As far as my 25' CFC goes, it's too efficient and too restrictive for gravity only. 15 gallons takes nearly an hour which is too long to get a coldbreak. My tapwater is 60 degrees in the summer and to keep the wort @ 70-75 I have to run the garden hose @ maybe 10-15% flow or the wort hits 60 degrees. But I already had the copper so I just ran with a 3/8" CFC. I'd like to add a 2nd CFC (I have leftover copper) to get the cooling time down to 15-20 minutes. I've read that when you add hops at flameout you need to cool the wort as fast as possible to maintain the hop character. I just constructed a cheapo hopback to try but whole hop varieties are very limited in my area. Besides, I have nearly 5lbs of hop pellets from hopsdirect on hand that I'd like to use whenever I can.

Good luck with the 64 calorie brew! I've read that there's no room for 'mistakes' to hide in light bodied/lightly hopped beer. But I understand that keeping the lady of the house interested is a high priority for your brewing happiness! If you're lucky, she'll be a fan of wheat beers! I once dated a girl who loved them, it was sheer bliss! :D
 
Hey KCBrewer, here's my post from the other pump thread showing how I wired this pump to a switch. Figured it might be of interest to you.

DryHeave said:
I made a quick "diagram" of how I wired the pump to a 3 way light switch. Of course I tested all wires before I hooked them up!!!!

THIS FUNCTIONS AS AN ON/OFF SWITCH ONLY.

This particular MARCH 809 BR pump is labeled as:
GREEN - GROUND
BLACK - LINE
BLACK - LINE
So, one black wire is positive and one is negative - doesn't matter which one.

My extension cord is:
WHITE - HOT
BLACK - GROUND
GREEN - SECONDARY GROUND

Pumpswitch.jpg


Hope this helps!
Click to expand...
 

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