Brew Kettle - Whirpool ?'s

Wanting to change my brew kettle over to a whirlpool setup. I currently have the dip tube going to the middle of the keg. So i was thinking instead of trying to bend the SS tube, I will get a new one that draws off the side/bottom. Then I know I'll need another tube to that will lay against the middle of the keg. I have a hole drilled already (see pic), but is this hole in a good enough location? It was a hole drilled previously for a thermo but it ended up being a tad too high for 5 gallon batches. Also, where is the best place to pick up these tubes for the whirlpooling?



Thanks

Looks like a good location. If its a 1/2" coupler welded there, you can put a 90 degree compression fitting inside and use a small piece of stainless tubing that is slightly bend alongside the keg wall. I did this on my last system and it worked quite well.

Alternatively you could put a street elbow inside and screw in a hose barb to that if you didn't have stainless tubing or don't want to spend money on a compression fitting.

There's no fitting in there currently. Just a SS bolt & nut with a seal. I would probably just pick up a weldless compression fitting of some sort to go with the angled SS tube.

Looks like i found what I'm looking for at Bargain Fittings:

Side pickup:
http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=46&product_id=157

Whirlpool tube:
http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=46&product_id=151

So a couple more questions. If i just order the side pickup tube, can I still re-use my corrent compression fitting setup? Or will the fitting be no-good to re-use?

With the whirlpool tube, whats the best way to attach the input hose? Will a hose barb for my 1/2 hose be suffecient? Initial thought is to get the whirlpool tube with the compression fitting then attach a 1/2" ball valve to seal it up when not in use. Then use a hose barb on the ball valve for my input hose.

I know bargainfittings has them

http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=151

mpcluever said:

I know bargainfittings has them

http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=151

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yup, same thing i posted above. thank you though.

more than likely i'll go with the two tubes i linked above, but now i'm just trying to figure out the details.

help for the whirlpoolin' newbie??

So a couple more questions. If i just order the side pickup tube, can I still re-use my corrent compression fitting setup? Or will the fitting be no-good to re-use?

With the whirlpool tube, whats the best way to attach the input hose? Will a hose barb for my 1/2 hose be suffecient? Initial thought is to get the whirlpool tube with the compression fitting then attach a 1/2" ball valve to seal it up when not in use. Then use a hose barb on the ball valve for my input hose.

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So i got my kettle setup with the whirlpool components, and I don't think its as good as it should be

The whirlpool works, but its doesnt seem to have a strong whirlpool action. seems pretty slow in the rotation. I whirlpooled the entire time while the batch was being pumped through the chiller (approx 10-15min) and then let it rest for about 10 minutes after.

I used this bottom pick up tube:
http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=46&product_id=157

So it pulls from the left side of the kettle and then whirlpool valve pushes the wort in to the right side of the kettle. I used a 90* street elbow attached to a 1/2" ball valve along with a 1/2" barb. Should I ditch this and go with the whirlpool tube http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=46&product_id=151 ?

It doesn't need to be blasting, just swirling is enough to get the hops and trub to the middle in a cone. Of course you still need to let it sit for 30min or so to let things settle completely. I was thinking that the whirlpool ought to be turning in the same direction as the pickup is pointing, but you might be right about them creating a vortex in the same direction. Definitely want the pickup a little above the bottom of the keggle.

Lennie said:

It doesn't need to be blasting, just swirling is enough to get the hops and trub to the middle in a cone. Of course you still need to let it sit for 30min or so to let things settle completely. The whirlpool ought to be in the same direction as the pickup is pointing, and the pickup ought to be slightly above the bottom of the keggle.

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Thanks. I'll change the direction of the pickup tube to face the same way.

I'm hoping i can get a tighter cone so I can trim my pickup tube since its currently leaving a gallon in the bottom

riored4v said:

So i got my kettle setup with the whirlpool components, and I don't think its as good as it should be

The whirlpool works, but its doesnt seem to have a strong whirlpool action. seems pretty slow in the rotation. I whirlpooled the entire time while the batch was being pumped through the chiller (approx 10-15min) and then let it rest for about 10 minutes after.

I used this bottom pick up tube:
http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=46&product_id=157

So it pulls from the left side of the kettle and then whirlpool valve pushes the wort in to the right side of the kettle. I used a 90* street elbow attached to a 1/2" ball valve along with a 1/2" barb. Should I ditch this and go with the whirlpool tube http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=46&product_id=151 ?

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Have any pictures showing how your fittings are installed?

Jester said:

Have any pictures showing how your fittings are installed?

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i'll grab a couple when i get home and will post them up shortly.

some pics


IMG_0285 by riored4v, on Flickr


IMG_0286 by riored4v, on Flickr


IMG_0287 by riored4v, on Flickr

I think you have it right, its pulling in at the same direction as the whirlpool. On the other hand, I set mine up the other way thinking it would prevent as much trub from getting sucked up. Not sure if the pivkup creates as much of a whirlpool effect as the inlet but if it does have some effect then you'd want it to be in the same direction.

We used Supermoss and I really didn't see much of a cone in the bottom of the keggle, but it did settle out nicely and I only had a gallon of trub. I poured that in a pitcher and harvested another half gallon out of that after settling overnight. I boiled it again and will use it for starters.

I also made my whirlpool line come in from the top of the keggle, I slip through one of the handle holes and it sits just below the surface when the keggle is full. I suppose your port works but I wonder if it isn't kicking up a little more of the trub. I'd guess the turbulence is a little more right where the wort shoots in.

With the location of the whirlpool inlet, it sits almost right at the 5.25 gallon mark. So it pretty much hits the top of the wort. With the way the street elbow sits, its angled towards the wall of the kettle, so maybe I need something that will run more parallel with the wall like the whirlpool tube from bargainfittings?

Thats good to hear you have about a gallon left in the bottom of the kettle. Thats pretty much exactly where I'm at with mine.

Aside from a different tube i guess the only thing i can think of doing is flipping the pick up tube to be in line with the whirlpool inlet.


*edit* and damn, my keggle looks filthy in those pics. yikes lol. Time to give it that PBW bath i've been pushing off.

Dunno if you've tried it or not, or if you're even using a March 809HF, but if you are, you should try the 815 impeller. I whirlpool and there was a noticeable difference with the bigger impeller.

l3asturd said:

Dunno if you've tried it or not, or if you're even using a March 809HF, but if you are, you should try the 815 impeller. I whirlpool and there was a noticeable difference with the bigger impeller.

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Yea, we use the 809HS pump.

Haven't tried a bigger impeller though. This last weekend was my test using a clone beer to try the whirlpool system out.

Think i'm going to order the 815 impeller. Replaced with the street elbow with a whirlpool tube from bargain-fittings.com and it seems to be better, but still not quite a strong enough flow to really build a nice cone in the bottom.

Anything special required to make the 815 impeller work on the 809HF pump?

I've got my whirlpool tube mounted about where your themometer is, but they're both pointing the same direction, I may switch the outlet, it makes sense to push & pull. I do get a decent whirpool now though.

Wish I knew what a decent whirlpool truly looked like. At the end of my whirlpool and letting it rest, it has a cone of stuff in the bottom, but still have a fair amount just laying across the bottom and it will get sucked in the fermenter. I'm whirlpooling while I'm cooling and with the warm temps + whirlpool time, its about 20 minutes or so, and then i'll let it rest another 20 minutes.

Can you switch your thermometer & whirlpool tube? I aimed for the lower 1/2 in a 5 gal. brew-I can adjust it for a 10 gal. I have noticed that the first bit coming out of the pump at fermentor transfer has a lot of cold break, probably trapped in the pump body & the chiller-I'm going to start drawing this off to a separate container. I leave a bit over 1/2 gal in my keggle, drawing off the side, much like yours. BTW, your keggle isn't "filthy", it's "well-seasoned"

The whirlpool tube location was initially my thermometer location, but not being my first keggle and not thinking about probe location, the spot was a tad too high to take good temp readings.

Thats the only thing.. not quite sure where exactly in the wort the whirpool tube should sit. To me it would make sense at the top level to get it spinning, but I could also see where it would make sense to have it lower. FWIW, I did a 10 gallon batch with this whirpool setup and I couldnt even really see the surface move like I can with a 5 gallon batch.

I've done several 5's @ one 10 w/ my set-up so far & I can definitely see movement w/ both sized batches. I had to re-adjust the angle for the 10 gl batch & may even make a 10gl specific tube (I have the tube, just need to bend it. I actually have brewed just the one 10 gl batch in 2 years of brewing, so it is not a top priority.) I'm in the process of making a "whirlpool friendly" hop basket at the moment, as I love the hop aroma from a "hop stand".

Here is my BK with the bargainfittings whirlpool parts listed earlier in this thread.


Here it is moving about 13 gallons of hot oxyclean.

Are both of yours guys whirpool tubes horizontal or are they angled at all?

Mine is definitely going through a bit of resitriction (2 ball valves, a plate chiller and about 4ft of tubing on both the input and output side) in comparison to the above photo, but I'm hoping the new impeller helps that out.

riored4v said:

Are both of yours guys whirpool tubes horizontal or are they angled at all?

Mine is definitely going through a bit of resitriction (2 ball valves, a plate chiller and about 4ft of tubing on both the input and output side) in comparison to the above photo, but I'm hoping the new impeller helps that out.

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When I make a 5.5 gallon batch i angle it down just a bit. At 10 gallons I keep it horizontal.

Alright, that pretty much what I'm doing as well. I'll try to adjust the angle a little for the 5 gallon batches.

Would the diameter of the kettle have anything to do with it? More diameter meaning it has time to gain momentum vs a smaller kettle, like my keggle? If not, then the only other thing I can think of would be my inline restrictions.

For 5 gal. batches angled slightly down, for 10 slightly up-also through tubing and 40 plate chiller; standard keggle.

thanks for the info guys.

Along with the pump upgrade I'll try the angle adjustments. I have a couple batches coming up this weekend that I'll test it out on.

I think Jamil recommends a 30 degree angle on the whirlpool fitting, you might check this out at his Mrmalty site.

Thanks for that. Just checked it out and from his site:

The important thing is the angle of attack of the return. It should be between 30 and 45 degrees off the kettle side. Play with it and you can get a really fast whirlpool going.

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So if i'm understanding that correctly, he not referring to the angle up or down, but the angle the return flow is pointing towards the wort. I would guess with my whirlpool tube I would be fine, but I'll double check the angle.

riored4v said:

Are both of yours guys whirpool tubes horizontal or are they angled at all?

Mine is definitely going through a bit of resitriction (2 ball valves, a plate chiller and about 4ft of tubing on both the input and output side) in comparison to the above photo, but I'm hoping the new impeller helps that out.

Click to expand...

That is quite a bit of restriction and will slow down the return flow.

Test with some water the flow rates with and without your chilller attached to get a handle on what the whirlpool will look like.

I've set up my 1 barrel brew rig with whirlpool returns and they spin the wort fine but I don't flow through a chiller. This is with an 809 march pump.

So you whirlpool then chill? How do you sanitize your chiller?

logdrum said:

So you whirlpool then chill? How do you sanitize your chiller?

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I use immersion chillers.

BargainFittings said:

That is quite a bit of restriction and will slow down the return flow.

Test with some water the flow rates with and without your chilller attached to get a handle on what the whirlpool will look like.

I've set up my 1 barrel brew rig with whirlpool returns and they spin the wort fine but I don't flow through a chiller. This is with an 809 march pump.

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Yea, i'm thinking about trying that. Might have to revise my lines to chill first and then whirlpool if the new pump parts dont work.

logdrum said:

So you whirlpool then chill? How do you sanitize your chiller?

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If you're asking me, I whirlpool while I chill. When its done chilling then I'm done whirlpooling and let it rest.

By pumping the hot wort through the chiller for the last 15 min of the boil, it sanitizes my chiller.

Turns out my 809HF already has the 815 impeller.

Is it important to use a filter if any kind when whirlpooling? I will be use a pump with a plate chiller and an curious if a filter is needed on the draw tube.

fwiw.. i chilled my last batch with the chiller while whirlpooling. once it was cooled, i bypassed the plate chiller and it made all the difference in the world. Really spinned nicely after the bypass.

Tomtanner said:

Is it important to use a filter if any kind when whirlpooling? I will be use a pump with a plate chiller and an curious if a filter is needed on the draw tube.

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You might try a copper scrubbie for a little flitration. Though I haven't used a plate chiller so I don't know if its necessary.