Yummy popcorn beer

[Beer is good]

I was under the impression that diacetyl was only a problem with lager yeasts, but I am drinking an IPA I made and all I taste is butter popcorn. I am not complaining, we have all wanted to drink butter popcorn at some point in our lives. I just did not know it was common with relatively high temperature fermenting ale yeasts.

Here is my recipe, do you see anything that might cause extreme butter popcorn flavor? This is a 1 gallon batch.

Primary: 68-72 (room temp) for 10 days moved to 37f for 15 days
Yeast: Safale S-05

2.2 lbs American 2-row
0.2 lbs Crystal 60L

Mash:
158f 90 min (this is in a mash tun that probably went from 158 to 150 over 90 minutes)

Centennial 5.67g 90
Centennial 5.67g 30
Cascade 5.67g 10
Cascade 5.67g 1
Cascade 5.67g 0

OG 1.070
FG 1.016

 

[VladOfTrub]

The recipe has little to do with it. There was a failure somewhere in the primary brewing procedure. Poor aeration, poor yeast, low level of nutrients in the wort, attribute to the formation of diacetyl. Dropping ale yeast down into lager temps at 10 days might not have allowed the yeast to work on the precursors that form diacetyl.
When diacetyl forms during primary fermentation, it can be reduced by employing a diacetyl rest. When diacetyl forms during secondary or in the bottle it can be cleaned up temporarily, it will return later on.

On a side bar. I don't brew ale styles. What was the determining factor that lead you to use 158F as a sacc rest temp, and then allow the temp to drop to 150F during saccharification, when brewing an IPA?

 

[mdbrewer1]

The recipe has little to do with it. There was a failure somewhere in the primary brewing procedure. Poor aeration, poor yeast, low level of nutrients in the wort, attribute to the formation of diacetyl. Dropping ale yeast down into lager temps at 10 days might not have allowed the yeast to work on the precursors that form diacetyl.
When diacetyl forms during primary fermentation, it can be reduced by employing a diacetyl rest. When diacetyl forms during secondary or in the bottle it can be cleaned up temporarily, it will return later on.

On a side bar. I don't brew ale styles. What was the determining factor that lead you to use 158F as a sacc rest temp, and then allow the temp to drop to 150F during saccharification, when brewing an IPA?

My guess is that the drop in temperature wasn't a purposeful move. It probably lost that much heat over 90 minutes. The smaller pot has a larger surface area/volume ratio, so it is much easier for heat to escape unless it is very well insulated.

 

[VladOfTrub]

"My guess is that the drop in temperature wasn't a purposeful move. It probably lost that much heat over 90 minutes. The smaller pot has a larger surface area/volume ratio, so it is much easier for heat to escape unless it is very well insulated."

Thank you very much for the input. I am interested in knowing if an IPA is made by using a rest that varies in such a wide temperature swing. I'll research more. I didn't want to change the topic from the original.

 

[Yooper]

"My guess is that the drop in temperature wasn't a purposeful move. It probably lost that much heat over 90 minutes. The smaller pot has a larger surface area/volume ratio, so it is much easier for heat to escape unless it is very well insulated."

Thank you very much for the input. I am interested in knowing if an IPA is made by using a rest that varies in such a wide temperature swing. I'll research more. I didn't want to change the topic from the original.

No. In general, an IPA will have a low/mid range single infusion saccrification rest at 150ish.

One thing for the OP to consider is that there are a few ale yeast that produce more diacetyl than others- but even so, it's not that common to get a diacetyl-bomb with an ale yeast. One of the major contributors to diacetyl in an ale can be pediococcus.

 

[HumulusHead]

I don't think it has anything to do with temp dropping during mashing. I typically brew APA's very similar to that beer. I usually mash between 149-152 to get a dry beer, but have never experienced a buttery off flavor.

I pretty much always use s05 too. I primarily start fermentation temps at 62 degrees and then slowly ramp up to 70 after bulk of fermentation.

I just got a 1.070 beer to ferment down to 1.010. Pretty high for an APA. Wasn't expecting that but I got distracted while mashing and it mashed for almost 2 hours so I got really good unexpected efficiency.

Anyways, I wouldn't contribute your flavor to mashing or fermentation techniques. Think your good there.

I'd say it's either an aeration issue, old yeast, or maybe pitch rate? How much did you pitch, you never said.

Also, I doubt it's aeration issue if proper pitch rates were used. I honestly probably under aerate most of my beers and they turn out fine, but not saying that's the right way.

So I'm leaning towards pitch rate.

 

[HumulusHead]

Also now I see that you fermented up to 72 degrees room temp. If that was at the beginning of the fermentation the actually temp could have been pretty close to 80!

I've never had experience with s05 that high so I have no advice on that, but could possibly be the culprit.

 

[Beer is good]

Hello everyone, I will answer a few things. The temperature loss during mashing was due to my mash tun, I didn't do that on purpose. That was just the heat loss that occurred.

After reading the possible causes here, I think it was probably my aeration. Up to this point, my aeration was just a little shake after pitching the yeast. I did not know the bearing that aeration had on diacetyl.

As for the pitch rate, I used a single 11 gram packet for 5 gallons. I have always used this much in the past with vigorous fermentation and no diacetyl so I am not sure if this was the case. As for the age, I just picked it up from the brew shop but I suppose they could have had an old packet there.

Another thing - I opened another one of these last night and it was very cold, and I didn't really taste any popcorn. So maybe the coldness helped, and maybe during bottle conditioning a little more diacetyl was consumed between when I drank the first one and now, if that is possible.

I brewed a porter on Friday and this time I really shook the ever loving heck out of it so it is surely aerated. I will remember to aerate better.

Thank you for the helpful information everyone.

 

[LLBrewer]

I've brewed 1 butter bomb in my life and it was an imperial cream made with 1056. To this day I'm not sure what I did to anger the beer gods to the point they would render me such a vile batch but I hope never to do it again.

 

[Natdavis777]

I've brewed 1 butter bomb in my life and it was an imperial cream made with 1056. To this day I'm not sure what I did to anger the beer gods to the point they would render me such a vile batch but I hope never to do it again.

I hear ya. My first butter bomb was my very first beer. Didnt hit volume. Didnt aerate (didnt even know about aeration), pitched one packet of 1056 with no starter, didnt temp control... But I remember I sanitized the crap out of everything. My practices have gotten better since then and I havnt replicated the result thank God.