Yet another

[Gunkleneil]

Is this the beginning of an infection? Brewed 2 weeks ago. Sitting in the fermenter since.

View attachment 1000004618.jpg

 

[hotbeer]

Are you wanting it to be infected? Will it change anything you do one way or the other?

 

[Gunkleneil]

Looking to see if it needs to be dumped. Wasn't trying for an infection. Is a coffee stout

 

[hotbeer]

Few infections are poisonous.

IF that is an infection, it doesn't look like it's gotten a good hold on your beer. It still might taste good. Might be a pleasing sour... if you like sours. Might taste like the most disgusting filth you ever put in your mouth.

Regardless, If it were mine, I wouldn't dump it until it's finished and I've tried it. You never know till then. And there aren't really any reasonable things you can do to fix it at this point.

 

[IslandLizard]

It's definitely an infection, sure, the forming of a pellicle and the "slimy" bubbles are the giveaway.

As @hotbeer said, it looks small, and you're 2 weeks in, so the beer is probably mostly done fermenting. You may not be able to taste it yet, or perhaps an ever so slight sourness. Although not intended of course, a slight sourness can taste pretty good in a Stout. I've tasted many of them over the years.

I gather you took a hydrometer sample and discovered this.
What gravity are you at now? What was the OG? What's the estimated FG?
Have you tasted the hydro sample?

Any clue where this infection may have come from?
Have you had them before? More so, lately?
How many times has the lid been off your fermenter since you pitched yeast?

Not sure what the best strategy is right now.
Are you bottling or kegging?

 

[Gunkleneil]

@IslandLizard I haven't taken a reading yet. Haven't opened or touched anything since it was brewed. I was about to when I saw this and decided to hold off. This is the first beer I've made in about 8 months. And the first ever with an infection. It's been a tough year. I also used a new fermenter so it's possible I didn't clean and sanitize as well as I thought I did. I keg so maybe I should just keg it and see how it turns out. I was nervous about taking a sample or reading until I had a game plan for what to do with it. I agree it doesn't look like a large infection yet and I didn't see it 5 days ago when I looked last. Do you think it safe to keg it and try? I can smell it and maybe taste the sample I pull for a reading and see if it's got a bad taste.

 

[IslandLizard]

Haven't opened or touched anything since it was brewed.

Did you take that picture through the glass lid?
Is that a (stainless) conical or brew bucket?

Does it have a spigot or sampling port?
If not, in an effort to leastly disturb a fermenter, I take samples by snaking a skinny piece of vinyl tubing through the airlock hole in the lid, and suck-siphon a 6-8 oz sample into a plastic container.

As long as the beer is done (hence the hydro sample to confirm it), the easiest is to keg it, and store it cold (kegerator/keezer) to slow down (or even halt) the infection.

 

[Gunkleneil]

@IslandLizard it's a plastic fermzilla conical no spigot. I was thinking to replace the airlock with the pressure plug and use the floating dip tube and pressure to get a sample out. Was planning on trying pressure fermenting but my spunding valve didn't get here in time so I through an air lock on. The airlock was bubbling away real good for about 4 days and the krausen took about another 4 or 5 days to fall. So I'm hoping it's done. I'll get a sample after work tonight.

 

[IslandLizard]

it's a plastic fermzilla conical no spigot. I was thinking to replace the airlock with the pressure plug and use the floating dip tube and pressure to get a sample out.

That's a very elegant way to take a sample, yes!
And you only need a little pressure.

 

[Gunkleneil]

So the current gravity is 1.022 , OG in the fermenter was 1.052, which puts it at 3.94%. the pH of the sample was 4.76. The taste is fine I don't notice anything off I may let it go a few more days and see what happens. Would like it to go a little lower on the gravity. I'll be watching the infection.

 

[hotbeer]

I've wasn't able to get any of the Porters/Stouts that I brewed this past Fall and Winter very much below a SG of 1.020. I think 1.018 was my lowest FG with them. And with the Ales I brewed previously I always went to 1.008 - 1.012. All of them, including the Stouts reached that FG about 4 days from pitch. And they were left in the fermenter for 2 - 3 weeks total and never any movement on the SG.

I'm thinking part of it might have been my laissez faire approach to water chemistry that seems to have worked well enough for Ales, but maybe not so good for Stouts. Hopefully in the Fall/Winter of 2024 I'll find out if that was the issue when I plan to go back and try them again.

So although I don't usually encourage bottling/kegging a beer too soon. You might not wait too much longer for beers that might have infection. And since that stuff might be harder for your sanitizer to deal with on your next batch. You might want to consider giving everything a hour's soak in a chlorine bleach solution. . Fermenter, bottles, keg and all the other stuff that it's touched. Then prior to using that stuff again, just go through your normal sanitizing routine which I assume includes a no-rinse sanitizer such as Star-San or Iodophor.

Clorox has instructions for all types of sanitizing levels printed on their bottles. Not beer though, but you can pick the one that applies to you. Don't leave stuff in it all day or especially not overnight. 45 min. to < 2 hours is what I do.

 

[IslandLizard]

You might want to consider giving everything a hour's soak in a chlorine bleach solution.

Just don't use (chlorine) bleach on stainless steel!

Also thoroughly clean the exit valve on your kettle.
And try to find out where the infection may have come from.

 

[hotbeer]

Just don't use (chlorine) bleach on stainless steel!

I haven't had a problem with SS and bleach. But I don't have a SS fermenter. I do have SS sight glass, butterfly valve and other SS sanitary fittings that I do soak for up to almost 2 hours in a strong bleach solution.

I have had chorine bleach pit metal before. So that's part of my caution to not leave things soaking all day. I did forget to mention that one needs to rinse well.

But I will agree that YMMV.

 

[Gunkleneil]

Thanks. I know cleaning will be extra this time and we'll be careful. It's a plastic fermzilla so no worries on SS. I'm thinking the infection came in when my clamp on the cooling coil was loose and let about a cup or two into the wort as it was cooling. I have my house well water go through a large activated charcoal filter due to a sulphur smell, but I use a non filtered connection when I hook up my coil. Then I forgot to take the dry yeast out of the fridge to about 90 minutes before use. Pitched when wort was 72.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm thinking the infection came in when my clamp on the cooling coil was loose and let about a cup or two into the wort as it was cooling.

I have my house well water go through a large activated charcoal filter due to a sulphur smell, but I use a non filtered connection when I hook up my coil.

If your well water is good for normal consumption, I would doubt the infection coming from there, but dirt from outside the fermenter, such as hoses and connections could carry bugs. It's for you to review when and where something could have gotten in there.

Needless to say, you'll need to clean and thoroughly sanitize everything on the cold side that's been in contact with this infected beer, including all fittings, gaskets, nooks and crannies, on your fermenter.

I'd also check (and clean) any valves and hoses, etc. the chilled wort goes through. The exit valve on the kettle can have grime built-up inside, hiding in there, and heat apparently won't kill it all. Pediococcus seems to be very resilient.
FWIW, 2-part valves do come apart, to inspect and clean them inside.

When not in use leave (cleaned and rinsed) valves open at a 45° angle, so they can dry inside.

 

[bwible]

I've wasn't able to get any of the Porters/Stouts that I brewed this past Fall and Winter very much below a SG of 1.020. I think 1.018 was my lowest FG with them. And with the Ales I brewed previously I always went to 1.008 - 1.012. All of them, including the Stouts reached that FG about 4 days from pitch. And they were left in the fermenter for 2 - 3 weeks total and never any movement on the SG.

I'm thinking part of it might have been my laissez faire approach to water chemistry that seems to have worked well enough for Ales, but maybe not so good for Stouts. Hopefully in the Fall/Winter of 2024 I'll find out if that was the issue when I plan to go back and try them again.

Probably things you already know:
- Pitch enough yeast. Make a starter if liquid yeast or use more dry.
- Fermentation temp.
- Introduce some oxygen when pitching, even if its just by stirring well. I know there are threads galore about the negative effects of oxygen, but yeast need some oxygen.
- Add some yeast nutrient

Aside from that, the other thing to look at is your mash temp. That can affect final gravity.

I don’t see water chemistry as having a bad influence on finishing gravity unless something is way, way off.

 

[Gunkleneil]

If your well water is good for normal consumption, I would doubt the infection coming from there, but dirt from outside the fermenter, such as hoses and connections could carry bugs. It's for you to review when and where something could have gotten in there.

Needless to say, you'll need to clean and thoroughly sanitize everything on the cold side that's been in contact with this infected beer, including all fittings, gaskets, nooks and crannies, on your fermenter.

I'd also check (and clean) any valves and hoses, etc. the chilled wort goes through. The exit valve on the kettle can have grime built-up inside, hiding in there, and heat apparently won't kill it all. Pediococcus seems to be very resilient.
FWIW, 2-part valves do come apart, to inspect and clean them inside.

When not in use leave (cleaned and rinsed) valves open at a 45° angle, so they can dry inside.

Thanks. I don't think I cleaned my brewzilla drain valve to well now that I think of it. Kinda thought the boil would take care of it but not that you point it out I see where that wouldn't be the case. Was only the second time I used it but about 8 months between uses. I gave it a quick clean but didn't go too nuts with it. Guess I'm learning from that mistake.

 

[Gunkleneil]

@bwible thanks for the tips.

 

[Gunkleneil]

So it didn't really get any worse looking so I went ahead and kegged it yesterday. Final gravity reading was 1.018. The flavor was good so maybe I got lucky. Washed everything good in PBW then a soak of mild bleach solution except for stainless items. Then a really good rinse and pour up to air dry good. Will go through again before next use with the bleach solution and then star san .

 

[T Murph]

@Gunkleneil when you remove the bottom ring clamp and catch bottle from the bottom of your Fermzilla, a build up of trub gets stuck in the molded plastic opening where the ring folds in and upwards. You have to use a small brush to scrub this crease well to prevent problems. Once cleaned then sanitize with star San or Iodophor.

If you choose to use chlorine bleach you should make a solution of 100 ppm chlorine to water. You need chlorine test stripes to check the strength. According to the FDA 200 ppm and higher is considered hazardous. Test strips are available at restaurant supple stores and some hardware stores. Also a 2 minute soak in a chlorine solution is the recommended amount of time of exposure. Always rinse thoroughly afterwards.