Yet another March Thread.

[hedonist91]

Allright. I know what you're thinking.
But listen, it's my first HERMS. That's a lot of stinking hose, and my lord, it's on top of a television. This photo was taken weeks ago, and since, I have a stand for the MLT, which is on the left, and it looks slightly less ghetto. here's the issue. I know that march pumps need to be primed, and up until this last saturday I haven't had any problems using it.

This time, however, it was barely spitting out anything, and, when I shortened hoses on either side, it still didn't spit out anything more than a trickling. Right now, it's being looked at by a fellow who appearantly knows what a broken pump looks like. I'm book smart fellow working as a teller at a credit union, who loves beer and knows how to jerry-rig a few things, in case you were wondering on my background. I'm better at playing guitar, cooking, and speaking foreign languages than I am plumbing. Hence, the problems with my manual dexterity and knowledge of the blue-collar arts (which I wish I could just magically trade some of my semi-useless knowledge for).

My setup as per the photo works as such: Wort exits the MLT-on the left- to the pump, through a copper coil, about 90 feet, that I muscled around a bucket to make, submerged in the boil kettle, which is filled with water at this point during the mash. Then, I disconnect the hose from the MLT and pump water from the Boil keetle on the right through, so I can get all the wort out of the system ( coil and hose) and back into the MLT at mash-out. Then I connect the output of the coil that empties into the MLT during the boil up into the HLT (not shown in picture-10G gott cooler, way on the left, up on a stand). Then i sparge out of the MLT into the boil kettle (pot on the right) without the coil inside, of course, and proceed with the boil. I put together this system on very limited funds and only wanted to buy one burner, and I already had the cooler, so forgive the fact that the system seems funky compared to all of yours, which make me drool. In fact, looking at all of the burners that you guys have in your systems, I understand why you have more than one, but I don't see why you need more than two. My one burner takes care of all of the steps in a step mash, and all of the water needed for sparging (I cool the boiling water off for the sparge with tap water, and work it out as I need it) I tried to design one that had only one burner, would eliminate hot spots on in my mash tun, and would use the resources I already had.

So, the my questions are:
Where the hell should I mount my pump (assuming it's not busted from running without being properly primed)?

Should it be after the coil with a bleeder valve? Before the coil with a bleeder valve? Pump facing up, down or horizontal?

I know I'm throwing a lot out there, but this set-up exactly how it looks has worked like 8 times, and and now the pump just pooped out. I'm thinking I didn't prime it correctly and blew the thing. So, I'm trying to avoid doing that again, and also, I've read a number of threads on the Little Giants, and if I have to purchase another pump anyway, I might go with that.

I've searched around a bunch of posts, and I dont' want to bring up and beat down a dead horse on this one, I just simply don't understand a lot of things some of you guys are saying, such as in the thread with the bleeder valves. I understand how a bleeder valve operates, but where my output is, assuming it was mounted with a shorter hose underneath my MLT, would I be able to install a bleeder on the output and have it be effective? In your guys' pictures, are those pumps after the coil? Or are your guy's rigs totally different than mine? Do I need a complete overhaul, or do I need to put the pump after my coil, or install a second pump?

And yes, quick disconnects...I know...I got work to do...this post is about the pump though.

 

[The Pol]

That is an awesome pic...

Blichmans, on a TV and the pump in the floor... that is awesome.

Okay, have the pump BEFORE the coil. Prime the pump BEFORE you hook the outlet to the coil. Or, you may not get a prime.

You only need to mount the pump below the kettle, reduce the head on the pump outlet and rid yourself of copious amounts of hose.

 

[Munsoned]

Blischmans, on a TV and the pump in the floor... that is awesome.

You missed the burner also on the floor, under the bricks, next to the wall.

 

[The Pol]

You missed the burner also on the floor, under the bricks, next to the wall.

That too, saw that later... $700 worth of kettles, on a TV and a burner, under bricks, with fake turf??

 

[jpalarchio]

If you're having trouble getting the pump primed, try adjusting the v-hold and make sure you're tuned to channel 3.

 

[Hermit]

"My setup as per the photo works as such: Wort exits the MLT-on the left- to the pump, through a copper coil, about 90 feet, that I muscled around a bucket to make,"

I use a small pump through about 25 feet of 3/8 copper tubing that I found in my basement. That is enough to slow my pump down considerably. 90 feet?

 

[RonRock]

If you don't move the propane tank yooll miss Springer.

 

[sjvicker]

That too, saw that later... $700 worth of kettles, on a TV and a burner, under bricks, with fake turf??

Just means he has his priorities right!

 

[samc]

Indoors? Propane tank, pump, sparks, leaks ... Kaboom!

disaster in the making.

 

[Catt22]

1. There may very well be some grain/hop particles trapped in the pump head causing a restriction or partial blockage. Disassemble the pump head and check for the same. This is very easy and quick to do.

2. The 90 ft of copper tubing will present a substantial resistance to flow. What size is the copper tubing? The losses are huge for the small diameter tubing such as 3/8" OD.

3. Consider using larger diameter hose at least on the suction side of the pump. It appears that you have a pipe thread x hose barb adapter on the pump inlet port. The inside of that adapter is probably much smaller than the pump would prefer. This is critical on the suction side of the pump.

4. It appears that there is no flow control valve on the output side of the pump. This seems to indicate that the flow rate was rather feeble when it worked at all. A bleeder valve is a big help when priming the pump and it's also a handy port to grab a sample from. Mount the bleeder valve on the ouput side of the pump and before the control vavle if you use one. To operate, close the control valve and open the bleeder valve to purge air from the suction line and pump head, then close the bleeder and open the control valve to begin pumping.

5. My best guess at the heart of the problem is that the copper tubing diameter is too small and the coil length much too long.

 

[hedonist91]

Indoors? Propane tank, pump, sparks, leaks ... Kaboom!

disaster in the making.

Isn't everyone else's rigs indoors? Besides, most of the windows on this porch are screen only. It's only semi-indoors.

"My setup as per the photo works as such: Wort exits the MLT-on the left- to the pump, through a copper coil, about 90 feet, that I muscled around a bucket to make,"

I use a small pump through about 25 feet of 3/8 copper tubing that I found in my basement. That is enough to slow my pump down considerably. 90 feet?

Yeah, when I made this rig, I did a bunch of research and for some reason I thought more more more. Everyone else uses less and I thought I'd be macho. You know, manifest destiny.

Just means he has his priorities right!

Indeed. My budget was like a thousand dollars. It was either make good beer or keep doing extract. I chose the former. Now, however, I do have a stand for the MLT. Still doin' bricks for the BK

1. There may very well be some grain/hop particles trapped in the pump head causing a restriction or partial blockage. Disassemble the pump head and check for the same. This is very easy and quick to do.

2. The 90 ft of copper tubing will present a substantial resistance to flow. What size is the copper tubing? The losses are huge for the small diameter tubing such as 3/8" OD.

3. Consider using larger diameter hose at least on the suction side of the pump. It appears that you have a pipe thread x hose barb adapter on the pump inlet port. The inside of that adapter is probably much smaller than the pump would prefer. This is critical on the suction side of the pump.

4. It appears that there is no flow control valve on the output side of the pump. This seems to indicate that the flow rate was rather feeble when it worked at all. A bleeder valve is a big help when priming the pump and it's also a handy port to grab a sample from. Mount the bleeder valve on the ouput side of the pump and before the control vavle if you use one. To operate, close the control valve and open the bleeder valve to purge air from the suction line and pump head, then close the bleeder and open the control valve to begin pumping.

5. My best guess at the heart of the problem is that the copper tubing diameter is too small and the coil length much too long.

My copper is 1/2 '' diameter. I have a chiller that I made out of 3/8 inch, but this one's a little thicker. I'll have to reduce the size of the coil, I put it together with couplings anyway. until now I didn't think it was too much of an issue. thanks

I have some friend of a friend taking the pump apart for me right now. About the adapter on the inlet-I have no clue why that is there. My father in law is a plumber, and started helping me with this while I wasn't home, and left it like that. I didn't see any harm in it so I left it. Never thought about taking it off. Good idea, thanks!

I'll get the stuff for the bleeder valve, sounds like a plan. When I mount the pump, should I face the input up towards my MLT? It seems like the way I understand it best.

Thanks again for all your help guys

 

[Cliff897]

Where the hell should I mount my pump (assuming it's not busted from running without being properly primed)?

Pretty much as you have in your picture: Below the fluids so gravity does your priming for you. Bear in mind that sucking on a mash tun can result in a stuck sparge (which I suspect is your problem & not the pump) so make sure you have a really good screen set up in your tun.

I'm a big fan of stainless steel braid that you can get from a dish washer supply hose.


I think your problem may be in the mash tun and not in your pump

 

[hedonist91]

Pretty much as you have in your picture: Below the fluids so gravity does your priming for you. Bear in mind that sucking on a mash tun can result in a stuck sparge (which I suspect is your problem & not the pump) so make sure you have a really good screen set up in your tun.

I'm a big fan of stainless steel braid that you can get from a dish washer supply hose.


I think your problem may be in the mash tun and not in your pump

I wouldn't have posted on this thread if I didn't already check the pump by itself and check the tun by itself. The tun flows freely without the pump. The pump doesn't flow freely even with 2 feet of hose tested off of my faucet. I did just a little research before asking the world for advice.

 

[splobucket]

Indoors? Propane tank, pump, sparks, leaks ... Kaboom!

disaster in the making.

Ha ha, i believe those walls are just screens. He should get plenty of air through!

 

[hedonist91]

Ha ha, i believe those walls are just screens. He should get plenty of air through!

Thanks 'bucket

 

[Cliff897]

I wouldn't have posted on this thread if I didn't already check the pump by itself and check the tun by itself. The tun flows freely without the pump. The pump doesn't flow freely even with 2 feet of hose tested off of my faucet. I did just a little research before asking the world for advice.

Do I have your flow backwards in my head?

If (as I think you are) you are pumping from the tank on the TV to the tank below it on the burner, there should be a column of water that will automatically prime the pump by virtue of gravity.

So, it is not a stuck sparge. If everything else flows with zero obstructions I'd try force priming the pump with a garden hose and see if there's some issue about the pump.
As crazy as it sounds a bug nest or other detritus could be inside the pump fresh from the factory. Hell, they might have forgot to install the impeller.

I had a friend in NJ who bought one of the very few Pontiac GTO Judge cars. The damn thing rattled. No one could figure out why for the longest time. It was a soda can in the door well that got left in at the assembly plant.
Things happen

 

[hedonist91]

I have never stopped working at this project - I am licensed, I got 3rd best beer in the region at the biggest state competition (commercially, not homebrew) 10 days after being licensed, I have people calling me for kegs while I'm at work, and I'll be quitting my day job this year.

I owe a lot to this forum, the great people, your sarcastic responses (I don't mean that facetiously, the sarcastic, sometimes cutting comments put me on level ground and helped me improve) and support.

I can't wait until I can give back.

If you think you want to open a brewery, look at your life and what is going on. It is waaay more than what you think. It will change everything. It took me over 5 years from conception to reality. If you want guidance, let me know.

If you think you have good beer because you won homebrew competitions, you do! You have great beer! I barely changed my recipe and won bronze 10 days after getting my license. Be inspired by your beer - it is awesome.

If someone at your party says they'd buy it, they're not kidding. Thanks everyone. I am leaving this post up, and I have to find the picture that I took down, it's too funny!