Yet again, another sparge question.

[deepcdan99]

OK, mash water to grain ratio 1/1.25 or so. You get your first runnings. Now the sparge water should be the amount to get your boil volumn up to what you need correct? Does it matter at this point what the grain/water ratio is? If I have a grain bill of approx 10-11 lbs and mash with 13qt's and sprage with 19, that wont be too thin? Should I sparge twice about 10qt's each to thinken it up? Am I making any sense?:cross:

 

[wilserbrewer]

yes your makin sense, you can certainly do a double sparge, thats what I do, that way the only critical measurement is the volume of the last sparge to reach pre boil volume...it doesnt have to be super technical at all...basicly mash / sparge / determine additional voume needed and sparge again...easy peasy

 

[deepcdan99]

yes your makin sense, you can certainly do a double sparge, thats what I do, that way the only critical measurement is the volume of the last sparge to reach pre boil volume...it doesnt have to be super technical at all...basicly mash / sparge / determine additional voume needed and sparge again...easy peasy

Great thanks for the quick response. Too bad my last all grain I added an additional gallon n half of water to my sparge accidentaly and had to stop the run off before my boil pot runith over, lol. Little low on preboil gravity and had to add a bit of DME. We'll see how that one comes out, lol!!! Thanks again.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

No need to worry about water/grain ratio's when sparging. You only need to worry about that when mashing. So...here's my method... assuming I'm using 10lbs with a ratio of 1.25qts/lb.

I would add about 3 gallons of water to my grains to mash. Then, after figuring out how much my grain absorbed, I would add enough water at 212F to bring my mash temp up to 170F. I would drain this to my kettle.

Once it's drained, I would figure out how much additional water I need to hit my pre-boil volume. Add this entire volume, or you can split it into two. Some people think you'll get more sugars from splitting it...I think it's a waste of time. Drain this to your kettle and start your boil.

 

[deepcdan99]

What hell would people do without the internet!!! Thanks!

 

[brentt03]

No need to worry about water/grain ratio's when sparging. You only need to worry about that when mashing. So...here's my method... assuming I'm using 10lbs with a ratio of 1.25qts/lb.

I would add about 3 gallons of water to my grains to mash. Then, after figuring out how much my grain absorbed, I would add enough water at 212F to bring my mash temp up to 170F. I would drain this to my kettle.

Once it's drained, I would figure out how much additional water I need to hit my pre-boil volume. Add this entire volume, or you can split it into two. Some people think you'll get more sugars from splitting it...I think it's a waste of time. Drain this to your kettle and start your boil.

When you say "after figuring out how much my grain absorbed", is this solely based off of a calculation base on the amount of grains you have, right??

 

[LarryC]

I would guess you would just measure how much you got in your pot from the first runnings.

 

[GNBrews]

That's exactly right, Larry. You know how much you initially mashed with, and you can measure what ends up in the kettle for the first-runnings. The descrepency is the amount of water absorbed by the grist. Since the grist is fully saturated after the first-runnings, you don't need to worry about any subsequent loss during later sparging.

I like to break my second addition of sparge water after the first-runnings into two equal portions. I get better extraction that way.

 

[brentt03]

That's exactly right, Larry. You know how much you initially mashed with, and you can measure what ends up in the kettle for the first-runnings. The descrepency is the amount of water absorbed by the grist. Since the grist is fully saturated after the first-runnings, you don't need to worry about any subsequent loss during later sparging.

I like to break my second addition of sparge water after the first-runnings into two equal portions. I get better extraction that way.

How long do you let the mash tun drain into the kettle for the first runnings? Do you just wait till the flow stops flowing nicely, or do you let it sit for a bit post stopping??

Probably no right or wrong way, was just curious.....

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

How long do you let the mash tun drain into the kettle for the first runnings? Do you just wait till the flow stops flowing nicely, or do you let it sit for a bit post stopping??

Probably no right or wrong way, was just curious.....

You're right...I don't think there's a right or wrong way of doing it. That goes for a lot of things in brewing.

I used to let the mash drain until it was a bad flow, and then I just filled it up again. No need to wait for it to "drip dry".

 

[sgillespie]

Quite honestly, I think the mash thickness figure is way overrated anyway. I don't even consider it really anymore..

 

[dzlater]

The way I like to do it is figure out the total water I need for the mash and the sparge. Then divide by two if I am doing a single batch sparge or three if I need to do a double sparge.

WATER VOLUMES

PREBOL VOLUME + ( LBS GRAIN * %ABSORBTION ) = TOTAL WATER

(%ABSORBTION I USE IS 0.13 )
You also need to factor in dead space in the mash tun and any other losses on your system

TOTAL WATER - [ ( QUARTS PER LB * LBS GRAIN ) / 4 ] = SPARGE
WATER

 

[jkreuze]

What hell would people do without the internet!!! Thanks!

They would actually purchase pornography.

 

[deepcdan99]

How much is too much grain in your run off?

 

[GNBrews]

A few pieces is not going to cause astringency, but you should strive to vorlauf as many times as necessary to establish a proper filter bed. Ideally, you'd have no grain in the run off.

 

[RugenBrau]

Perhaps this should be a different thread but how critical is sparge temerature? I sparge @168 degrees. If I'm off by 5 degrees am I screwing up?

 

[deepcdan99]

Perhaps this should be a different thread but how critical is sparge temerature? I sparge @168 degrees. If I'm off by 5 degrees am I screwing up?

If you mash out, usually your adding enough hot water to raise the temp upwards near 175, so that usually requires near boiling water to add. I dont think it would matter.

 

[lway4life]

Is a mashout needed for batch sparging? I have read conflicting details lately. I was under the impression that since batch sparging takes much less time until the boil is achieved that it was not a big deal, as opposed to fly sparging.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

Is a mashout needed for batch sparging? I have read conflicting details lately. I was under the impression that since batch sparging takes much less time until the boil is achieved that it was not a big deal, as opposed to fly sparging.

Mashouts aren't neccessary, but may help in some situations. I tend to do mashouts whenever I have a think mash (less than 1 qt/lb.) or whenever I'm adding more than 30-40% adjunts to the mash (wheats, oats, corn, etc.).

The mashout step only helps because it stops the enzymes from converting starches to sugars and makes the already converted sugars more soluble in the mash. This prevents stuck sparges and makes sparging much easier.

I've also done plenty of low water/grain ratio and high adjunct mashes without doing a mashout. It hasn't made a difference other than a slightly slower sparge.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

Perhaps this should be a different thread but how critical is sparge temerature? I sparge @168 degrees. If I'm off by 5 degrees am I screwing up?

Most enzymes stop actively converting starches at around 162-165 degrees. Anything higher than this is exceptable and exactly what we aim for when we look for 170 degree temps. You don't want to go much higher than 170, but 165-170 is perfectly fine.

 

[strikertown]

Most enzymes stop actively converting starches at around 162-165 degrees. Anything higher than this is exceptable and exactly what we aim for when we look for 170 degree temps. You don't want to go much higher than 170, but 165-170 is perfectly fine.

Why does it matter to stay below 170 on mash out for batch sparging if you are going to be boiling so quickly? Looking for technical reasons, but basically making the same argument as those that say mash out is unnecessary because boiling is happening so quickly after the mash is finished.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

Why does it matter to stay below 170 on mash out for batch sparging if you are going to be boiling so quickly? Looking for technical reasons, but basically making the same argument as those that say mash out is unnecessary because boiling is happening so quickly after the mash is finished.

You want to stay below 170 to prevent tannins in the husks from being released into the mash. This can create off flavors in the finished beer. Once sparging is completed, there should be no grain in contact with the wort, so there's no risk of tannins when you begin boiling. This is why a good crush/sparge/grainbed/vorlauf is necessary.

 

[monkeydan]

If you use something to filter the runoff from the mash tun, is it still necessary to vorlauf?

 

[SixFoFalcon]

If you use something to filter the runoff from the mash tun, is it still necessary to vorlauf?

In theory, no. In practice, yes. Collect your first pint or two in a clear glass or plastic pitcher and hold it up to the light. If you don't see any solids in there, you probably don't need to vorlauf. However, I've never seen a grist that was only full husks and full germ, with no small pieces. And I've never seen a filter, manifold, false bottom, etc. that can stop all these small pieces without also getting clogged up in short time. If you are talking about lautering, then running the wort through a filter after the fact, then I guess you wouldn't need to vorlauf, but I think then you are overcomplicating things.