Yeast Washing, Is it Really necessary?

[cheffriz]

I have been thinking about this for a few days now.

Would it be easier when you make your starter for your beer to make an extra cup (1 cup of water 1 oz of DME) and before you pitch your starter harvest a bit of yeast from the starter rather than going threw the process of cleaning out all the crap from the yeast. Does this make sense at all?

 

[kpr121]

You would still need to use the yeast within a fairly quick amount of time.

I think the reason why people wash yeast is that they basically get rid of almost all of the beer/hops/trub/etc. When you wash yeast, it ensures that the yeast will stay good for up to a couple months I believe.

If you are planning on making another batch within a short period of time (week or two), you can just dump some of the yeast cake into a mason jar and pitch that. I've done it multiple times

 

[chefmike]

makes sense to me... you are saying you are making a second starter to store, the idea being no trub.

there are lots of techniques that will give you acceptable results in sustaining a given population of yeast.

this would definitely work.

 

[chefmike]

You would still need to use the yeast within a fairly quick amount of time.

I think the reason why people wash yeast is that they basically get rid of almost all of the beer/hops/trub/etc. When you wash yeast, it ensures that the yeast will stay good for up to a couple months I believe.

If you are planning on making another batch within a short period of time (week or two), you can just dump some of the yeast cake into a mason jar and pitch that. I've done it multiple times

I would disagree. The yeast will remain viable for months at a usable level. Even when I have done tests pitching harvested slurry (unwashed) up to a year later, I had viable yeast and no off flavors from pitching the entire contents. Sanitation in harvesting seems to be the key.

The method he mentions above would be quite suitable to save for a month or three for repitching. And if one is making starters from this sample instead of direct repitching, all the better. I grew a starter off a harvested yeast that was 2 years old. No issues. No special storage or harvest technique.

 

[kpr121]

What is trub? Isn't it hot/cold break and hops? You do not have hops, but you do have hot and cold break material in a starter.

I'm not saying that it wont work, just that it may not work as well as washing yeast. And since washing yeast is pretty damn simple to do, I don't see why you don't do it.

Just seems like a waste of some DME to me. Unless you were planning on using the additional starter before you were ready to rack the primary from the first.

 

[KoedBrew]

Yeast Washing serves a very good purpose. If you take some yeast from your starter you are reducing the amount of yeast that goes into the beer...it may not be much, but it could effect it?

Think about the yeast washing, which is really easy. If you ferment a beer that wasn't very strong Say 1.050 OG. The Yeast starter you toss in there produces a healthy fermentation and you get Billions and Billions of cells of yeast. That made it through a fermentation successfully. Now they are just sitting there at the bottom of your fermenter. So why throw them out? There is not a brewery I know of that would throw those yeast away. Now if it was a High Gravity beer that is a different story.

Yeast washing isn't difficult, the hardest part is sanitation. As long as you are careful then you'll be producing tons of fresh reusuable yeast!

I would rather reuse those healthy viable yeast rather then dumping them down the drain, but that's me?

 

[Malticulous]

IMO it's a complete waste of time and introduces unnecessary risks. 50 to 100ml in to 20000ml has about zero impact on color or flavor. I like to use it fresh out of the fermenter. Sometimes I will dump a cake into a jar. The remaining beer is better than water. It has alcohol and a low pH that helps keep other bacteria at bay. This seems to be the only brewing forum where yeast rinsing is pushed. The consensuses on most other forums seems to be more in line my opinion.

 

[bknifefight]

I can think of a few good reasons to get yeast out of the starter.
First, no washing, which you've mentioned. Not that it's a pain or anything, but whatever.
Second, a starter should be around 1.040 so the yeast are not getting stressed fermenting it. If you were to wash yeast from a 1.080 beer, I imagine the yeast from the starter would be healthier.
Third, if your starter is from a fresh smack pack or vial, you're getting yeast that is 1st generation. Each time you wash yeast it has the possibility to change (mutate) on you. Chances are you wouldn't taste the change, but still.

 

[ThePearsonFam]

I can think of a few good reasons to get yeast out of the starter.
First, no washing, which you've mentioned. Not that it's a pain or anything, but whatever.
Second, a starter should be around 1.040 so the yeast are not getting stressed fermenting it. If you were to wash yeast from a 1.080 beer, I imagine the yeast from the starter would be healthier.
Third, if your starter is from a fresh smack pack or vial, you're getting yeast that is 1st generation. Each time you wash yeast it has the possibility to change (mutate) on you. Chances are you wouldn't taste the change, but still.

All great points... the other side is that you can get some of your best, healthiest yeast from a fermentation vessle. They've grown in the conditions of the beer and have developed a broad range of yeast cells, some highly attenuative with high floc rates, some less attenuative with high floc rates, some low atten w/ high floc, and some with low atten w/ low. It's good to have all shapes and sizes to make a well balanced beer.
I realize that the pros repitch to save money, but MANY of the experienced homebrewers repitch for taste and quality. JZ does it and typically prefers the beer from the 3rd and later pitches to the early ones. I'm guessing that taking the yeast from the starter wouldn't force that maturing process.
If I had the time and resources, I'd do an experiment. This sounds like a GREAT one!

 

[mummasan]

The OP has a great idea. I make starters on a stir plate but I only have a small 1l flask, if I had a 2l flask I would make bigger starters and save the extra. Hmm...

As it is, I harvest yeast from the primary, and reuse within seven days. I've had great results.

 

[wilserbrewer]

IMO it's a complete waste of time and introduces unnecessary risks. 50 to 100ml in to 20000ml has about zero impact on color or flavor. I like to use it fresh out of the fermenter. Sometimes I will dump a cake into a jar. The remaining beer is better than water. It has alcohol and a low pH that helps keep other bacteria at bay. This seems to be the only brewing forum where yeast rinsing is pushed. The consensuses on most other forums seems to be more in line my opinion.

I agree 100% Malticulous, not really for any technical reasons, but solely based on the fact that I am lazy, and if there is not strong reason to do something, I don't bother.

I mostly use dry yeast and repitch a portion of the slurry. Oh, and rather than spending the effort to clean and sanitize a mason jar, I recomend storing slurry in a zip lock bag, I sanitize the outside and simply cut it open w/ sanitized scissors, pour off the liquid and pitch it. Seems to work fine

 

[KoedBrew]

Aren't the yeast in the starter mixed with Malt Extract or extra runnings? Are you really going to put that in your beer anyway? I don't, I pour all of that off the starter except for just a bit to mix.

Also in yeast washing, you just do not use yeast from High Gravity beer. But you will need a Giant 2L starter anyway for that 1.080 beer.
I don't see what the problem with yeast washing is anyway?

Look at this video.http://billybrew.com/yeast-washing ..he simplifies yeast washing....but if you want to culture your own yeast read Charlie Papazian's Joy of Homebrewing. He describes it, kind of the starter route.

 

[Houblon]

IMO it's a complete waste of time and introduces unnecessary risks. 50 to 100ml in to 20000ml has about zero impact on color or flavor. I like to use it fresh out of the fermenter. Sometimes I will dump a cake into a jar. The remaining beer is better than water. It has alcohol and a low pH that helps keep other bacteria at bay. This seems to be the only brewing forum where yeast rinsing is pushed. The consensuses on most other forums seems to be more in line my opinion.

 

[corncob]

Oh, and rather than spending the effort to clean and sanitize a mason jar, I recomend storing slurry in a zip lock bag, I sanitize the outside and simply cut it open w/ sanitized scissors, pour off the liquid and pitch it. Seems to work fine

Genius!!

You deserve a beer.

 

[nspaldi0]

I listened to the Brewstrong episode on yeast washing today. I would recommend listening to that for further information on the subject.

Sent from my iPhone using HB Talk

 

[cheffriz]

I listened to the Brewstrong episode on yeast washing today. I would recommend listening to that for further information on the subject.

Sent from my iPhone using HB Talk

Link please

 

[nspaldi0]

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/543

Here's the link. Hope you enjoy.

 

[cheffriz]

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/543

Here's the link. Hope you enjoy.

Thank you.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

I wash every new liquid yeast I try. It takes little effort, little time, and saves me a ton of $$$. I brew a low grav lightly hopped beer first, harvest and wash, then brew multiple batches appropriate to the yeast style. In addition, as posted above, JZ does say the 3rd generation seems to yield the best beer. I also build very large starters and harvest 1st gen yeast from them to propogate fresh starters, but I use washed yeast from a fermentation for subsequent batches that are higher ABV and/ or more aggressively hopped.

Pitching freshly harvested slurry in appropriate quantities is fine, but unwashed yeast loses viability quickly. Pitching on an entire cake is just lazy and bad brewing practice.

Long and short of it is No, yeast washing is not necessary. You can either pitch fresh slurry from a cake (within a week) or you can wash (many have reported no ill effects up to a year later) or you can buy fresh yeast every brew.

 

[Houblon]

I wash every new liquid yeast I try. It takes little effort, little time, and saves me a ton of $$$.

I make a 1.5L starter (WLP orWY) and split the yeast into a few tubes to save and just top up the starter. Now I use that starter for 3-4 batchs and then dump before making a new starter from 1 of the extra tubes.

So I get 9-12 batchs of beer from one yeast purchase.

If I really wanted I could keep using the yeast(cake) for 8-10 batchs but really don't like to knowing that the `bugs keep growing in greater numbers per batch, just a simple fact as we're not brewing in a lab. To keep the `bugs under control would mean doing a acid wash of the yeast, too much work:cross:

 

[dzlater]

I think it also depends on how much break material and hop matter make it into the fermentor.
If one has a good method for minimizing the amount of trub transferred into the fermentor, yeast rinsing might not be as necessary.

 

[jangelj]

I just started trying what the OP describes. I bought my first smack pack of Pacman a few weeks ago. Smacked it, made a 2L starter. After decanting, I pitched about 3/4 of the slurry into my beer (OG 1.054). I made a 1L starter out of the other 1/4, chilled, decanted and saved the slurry in a sterilized jar.

I figure as long as I'm brewing ~1.055 beers that I can make a 2L starter and use about 3/4 of the slurry every time, saving the remaining 1/4 for the next brew.

 

[Phunhog]

Or how about this....Make a starter from a fresh vial/smack pack. Decant the starter into several sterilized White Labs vials. You would have at least 4-5 vials per 1L starter. When you are ready to brew make another starter with 1 of the vials. It seems to me that it is at least as easy as washing/rinsing yeast.

 

[jlpred55]

I don't wash yeast either. I store it in sanatized mason jars in a really cold fridge. I use it up to a couple months after I store it without a starter and have never had issues. I am also pitching copious amount of slurry on those batches. If it is much later then I will make a starter with small portion of the slurry. I dont make enough of the same styles using the same yeast to use it up quickly or repitch for multiple generations.

 

[rhamilton]

After doing some experiments over two weeks, I found yeast washing 100% unnecessary for storage up to 6 months (oldest yeast I had). The amount of hop/malt contamination is pretty much negligible in terms of 1L-2L starters so there is no reason to believe it could impart anything on 5+ gallons.

When I first started brewing, I just refilled my White Labs vials with strait up trub and threw them in the fridge. These samples were between 5-6 months old depending on the strain.

Recently I started washing since everyone was recommending it and these samples were 1-4 months old. My only major difference is instead of mason jars, I reused the White Labs vials again.

So I kicked off a series of experiments to reactivate these yeasts for a SMaSH brew marathon and I found the strait up trub started faster and more consistently. While it has a green hue from the hops (I don't use bags or filter before fermentation) so it really has alot more than yeast in it, once you step up to 1L+, the hop effect is minimal at best and not enough to justify the washing process. The best example was two White 007 samples, one washed and one not: I tasted both 2L samples and it was almost impossible to differentiate them based on aroma or taste. The only major difference was the slight green hue.

Of the dozen or so starters I made, only two failed and they were both from the washed yeast collection but this was probably due to the low yeast count in the vials vs a full mason jar or possibly my washing process was flawed (which is another argument NOT to wash). While the trub started fermenting in 24 hours and was ready for stepping up around 36 hrs, the vials took 36-48 hours to get started and close to four days to get stepped up, again - probably due to the low yeast count.

So for the tldr;

I won't be washing my yeast anymore. Maybe I'll start using a hop bag to keep the trub cleaner but then again, maybe not. I just might start filtering the trub when I repack it in the vials but again, it's not necessary.

Don't fear the trub!

 

[Seven]

I like the idea of getting a fresh package of yeast, making a starter with it, then splitting that starter into several smaller jars or whatever for storage in the fridge. When it comes time to brew a batch of beer just make a bigger starter from one of the smaller yeast samples saved previously.

IMO this seems like it would be a lot more sanitary compared to the amount of handling involved with yeast washing.

 

[StMarcos]

Isn't the fluid in the WL vials fermented beer? I wonder why they don't store their yeast in sterile water. I haven't washed yeast, but would consider it if I was convinced it would enhance yeast health/viability. Until then, it just seems like another vector for contamination.

 

[Phunhog]

I like the idea of getting a fresh package of yeast, making a starter with it, then splitting that starter into several smaller jars or whatever for storage in the fridge. When it comes time to brew a batch of beer just make a bigger starter from one of the smaller yeast samples saved previously.

IMO this seems like it would be a lot more sanitary compared to the amount of handling involved with yeast washing.

That is EXACTLY what I do! I use old WL vials. A day before I brew I grab one or two, make a starter, and away I brew.

 

[NewDecadeBrewery]

I ferment in what is technically a bottling bucket. When I transfer to secondary I grab my trusty bottle of store bought distilled water (for the über technical not sterile - for me, close enough) and after draining I pour some distilled water on top of the yeast cake, give it a swirl, wait a few then drain washed yeast into sanitized beer bottles out of the "fermenter" through the spigot leaving the heaviest trub-like stuff behind. Put beer bottles filled with washed yeast into keezer or fridge. Done.